Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
 

PETRUS

(3,678 posts)
20. Makes sense.
Thu Feb 6, 2020, 04:05 PM
Feb 2020

I'd like to share my thoughts about UBI with you. For one thing, writing about something helps me to organize and clarify what's in my head, and I haven't yet gone through that exercise on this topic. Also, I'd very much like to hear your opinions about what I have to say (of course, nobody here is obligated to respond to anything, and if don't feel like giving me feedback I won't be insulted). A number of my thoughts follow the pattern of "on the one hand x, but on the other hand y," and it would be useful to me to know what that sounds like to someone else.

In no particular order:

One of my negative reactions to UBI proposals stems from my discomfort with passive income. It's one of the problems I have with capitalism - around a third of national income is capital income, i.e., money collected simply by owning assets, which is therefore money not going to the people whose labor is making the assets productive. (Sometimes that's a blurry line. I myself own a business and also devote 60 or more hours a week to it.) On the other hand, I also believe that everyone is born with equal rights to the earth and its resources, but the economy does not operate according to that principle. Thomas Paine talked about that in "Agrarian Justice," proposing cash as compensation for those who are essentially dispossessed, and a UBI is conceptually similar. Further (as Evelyn Yang pointed out in something else you posted recently), society depends on a lot of unpaid labor, and a UBI would be one way to compensate people who are contributing but not receiving a market income.

I also worry about the political sustainability of UBI. Would it be eroded over time, much the same way the "New Deal" has been whittled away and the purchasing power of the minimum wage hasn't been maintained? On the other hand, that sort of concern could apply to all sorts of other policies and doing nothing isn't helpful at all, so maybe it's not worth fretting about.

Also, and I realize this is a minority opinion in the US, I think markets are a terrible way to organize society. They're certainly a simple and powerful way to coordinate a large and complex economy, but there are a lot of destructive side-effects. I think market imperatives are one of the main reasons we're facing climate change and other issues of ecological overshoot. Personally, I'd like to figure out a way to decommodify as much as we can (there's ample real world evidence that this is possible for things like education and healthcare, and I'd like to think there are ways to do it in other areas). A UBI doesn't replace the market, it just gives more people more options to participate. On the other hand, apart from proposals like Medicare for all, I don't have a lot of practical suggestions about how to replace markets. I'm temperamentally opposed to top-down administration or "central planning," and the evidence suggests that's an ill-advised approach anyway.

Those aren't necessarily all my thoughts about UBI, but I've covered the main bits of what's been going on in my head. To sum up where all this had led me: I'm inclined to support a UBI as part of a basket of policy changes that also includes thinks like a higher minimum wage, a much more progressive tax code, and Medicare for all. Your thoughts?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

I wouldn't necessarily call myself Yang curious radical noodle Feb 2020 #1
Every American citizen 18 and up would receive the same amount, with one exception. redqueen Feb 2020 #3
I'd have to agree with that radical noodle Feb 2020 #5
It also in a way gives some compensation to stay-at-home parents Sapient Donkey Feb 2020 #14
You really can't argue... Newest Reality Feb 2020 #2
It seems that a lot of people watched his town hall last night and were impressed, redqueen Feb 2020 #4
Thanks for the post, redqueen. PETRUS Feb 2020 #6
Thanks for asking - a lot of people think Yang is against a MW altogether. redqueen Feb 2020 #8
Makes sense. PETRUS Feb 2020 #20
I like Yang, and a lot of what he says makes sense, especially with the "cliffs." DanTex Feb 2020 #7
The reason to have it replace cash based programs is cost. redqueen Feb 2020 #11
I don't see how Yang's UBI isn't regressive. DanTex Feb 2020 #16
"Vision" doesn't put food on the table. redqueen Feb 2020 #18
I get that, and I totally respect your views. DanTex Feb 2020 #19
"Yang appeals to democrats, independents, and even libertarians and conservatives." No he doesn't... brooklynite Feb 2020 #9
These are indeed compelling facts ... mr_lebowski Feb 2020 #10
You would be very surprised how many conservatives support his ideas. redqueen Feb 2020 #12
I'm talking about how it can labeled ... not 'facts' as such ... mr_lebowski Feb 2020 #13
I like to say it's like greasing the squeaky wheels of capitalism Sapient Donkey Feb 2020 #17
I like Yang and the idea of a UBI Sapient Donkey Feb 2020 #15
7-Eleven unveils store without cashiers redqueen Feb 2020 #21
Macy's is closing roughly 125 stores. Here's list of first round of closings redqueen Feb 2020 #22
More retailers file for bankruptcy twice as they struggle with rising debt, pressure from Amazon redqueen Feb 2020 #23
Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»Democratic Primaries»Why do we need the Freedo...»Reply #20