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The Velveteen Ocelot

(116,591 posts)
119. Government-funded projects aren't "socialism" just because
Sat Feb 8, 2020, 07:07 PM
Feb 2020

they're government-funded. Just about all governments everywhere fund public works projects (that's why they call them public works projects). There's also the fact that these days large parts of most of those projects are subcontracted to private companies.

WPA was simply an emergency measure to stimulate the economy during the Depression by providing jobs for unemployed people to build roads, bridges and other public structures. Full employment, which was reached in 1942 because of WWII (and the WPA was then disbanded), was not the goal of the WPA; rather, it was intended to provide one paid job for each family in which the breadwinner suffered long-term unemployment. If the intent had been to create a permanent socialist economic structure the WPA wouldn't have been disbanded as soon as unemployment was no longer a serious problem. It's a huge mistake to call anything funded by the government socialism. Even during the Depression the government wasn't controlling the means of production and distribution; all it was doing was providing a temporary jobs program. It was more like how the government bailed out the auto companies after the crash of 2008.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
I'll take a Rob Riener over a Michael Moore any day of the damn week. nt UniteFightBack Feb 2020 #1
Moore is starting to sound kind of deranged. The Velveteen Ocelot Feb 2020 #2
He has become completely intolerable. nt UniteFightBack Feb 2020 #4
If Sanders became the nominee, MM would insure another four years of trump still_one Feb 2020 #9
K&R onetexan Feb 2020 #66
I almost fell over when he went into a sermon HarlanPepper Feb 2020 #7
So the problem is this. Blue_true Feb 2020 #114
Did anyone give any pushback or was Cha Feb 2020 #14
He was on with Chris Hayes radical noodle Feb 2020 #16
Oh right. Cha Feb 2020 #32
To his credit, and my surprise, Chris Hayes tishaLA Feb 2020 #54
Thanks, tisha.. more Meaningless michael moore .. Cha Feb 2020 #56
Hi Cha...didn't see it but I have been so disgusted with the media that I really haven't watched Demsrule86 Feb 2020 #77
I haven't watched the "media" in 18 years.. Cha Feb 2020 #110
Yep, I used to watch MSNBC but honestly they have been awful this cycle...now they are on the Dems Demsrule86 Feb 2020 #112
Yeah, there's something not quite right PatSeg Feb 2020 #44
+++ still_one Feb 2020 #6
I would too any day of the week. Demsrule86 Feb 2020 #76
Moore is such a gas bag. What a silly comment. brush Feb 2020 #3
I turn the tv off or change channels when he is on Gothmog Feb 2020 #108
MM said this, too.. "Moore Slams Obama: HIstory Will Only Remember You Were a Black President" Cha Feb 2020 #5
Drunk History. Again. Scurrilous Feb 2020 #8
Yep and of course the m$$$$m is only too Cha Feb 2020 #13
I guess getting healthcare was not a 'BFD' ...first president to ever manage it except for Demsrule86 Feb 2020 #79
This is what I mean about MMoore.. he just throws out Cha Feb 2020 #111
I can't stand Michael Moore and think he is an opportunist and is just promoting himself. Demsrule86 Feb 2020 #116
Wrong. . . Iliyah Feb 2020 #10
I completely agree. Moore trying to rewrite history here. n/t Still Sensible Feb 2020 #11
FDR's enemies called him a socialist. Scurrilous Feb 2020 #12
Moore is trying to stay relevant by saying controversisl things onetexan Feb 2020 #67
Yep. Scurrilous Feb 2020 #70
Yep, like the Ann Coulter of the left. brush Feb 2020 #87
By today's standards BlueIdaho Feb 2020 #15
+1 radical noodle Feb 2020 #17
See my tag line. patricia92243 Feb 2020 #36
Yes, comparatively FDR was a "billionaire" to the average worker back then but Moore didn't go... brush Feb 2020 #40
The Social Democracies of Scandinavia are all capitalist systems Fiendish Thingy Feb 2020 #18
Thank you. nt Quixote1818 Feb 2020 #20
Let's add this,FDR was a East Coast Wellstone ruled Feb 2020 #23
True. n/t MarcA Feb 2020 #29
BS Dem4Life1102 Feb 2020 #35
I know the textbook definitions are NOT what Sanders and Moore use Fiendish Thingy Feb 2020 #90
No they don't Dem4Life1102 Feb 2020 #99
Are you suggesting they are Marxists in disguise? Nt Fiendish Thingy Feb 2020 #106
No Dem4Life1102 Feb 2020 #120
Please explain the difference between the New Deal and the programs of Social Democracies Fiendish Thingy Feb 2020 #125
Social democracies are not socialist Dem4Life1102 Feb 2020 #127
Who's peddling BS? Fiendish Thingy Feb 2020 #129
Not talking about Warren Dem4Life1102 Feb 2020 #133
no it definitely was not, it was social democracy, FDR went out of his way to say no to socialism Celerity Feb 2020 #50
Thank You for proving my point Fiendish Thingy Feb 2020 #92
FDR was a capitalist...who was trying to save the Republic and millions from starvation... Demsrule86 Feb 2020 #115
You do realize Democratic Socialist countries are also Capitalist? Quixote1818 Feb 2020 #19
lol, we here in the Nordics (I live in Sweden atm) are NOT socialist, democratic or otherwise Celerity Feb 2020 #26
Regardless of the labeling Sanders has said he wants to mimic the Nordic system Quixote1818 Feb 2020 #41
no, most just hear socialism Celerity Feb 2020 #45
I think those 1950's era slams (socialism BAD!) are fading away Blues Heron Feb 2020 #80
Regardless of the framing or not, it is simply factually inaccurate to conflate social democracies Celerity Feb 2020 #91
I disagree, most people know that a little socialism is a good thing Blues Heron Feb 2020 #95
all I can say is wait until you see 1 billion USD in 'COMMMMIE!!!!' red baiting dropped on Bernie Celerity Feb 2020 #96
Bring it Blues Heron Feb 2020 #98
that is a path to electoral suicide nt Celerity Feb 2020 #100
No, it's not. Blues Heron Feb 2020 #102
and I think you are wrong, but we shall never find out because Sanders will not get the nomination Celerity Feb 2020 #104
This is correct. DanTex Feb 2020 #46
THIS!! SPOT ON!! InAbLuEsTaTe Feb 2020 #48
"conflating social democracy with democratic socialism" TwilightZone Feb 2020 #74
Well said, except for many, perhaps it's not so much intellectually bankrupt as it is chia Feb 2020 #83
No they aren't. They are social democracies, which is an informed version Blue_true Feb 2020 #117
Somebody loved FDR -- 4 times worth wnylib Feb 2020 #21
Good one. Yeah, explaining it just digs the hole. Better not to say the S word. In America. To emmaverybo Feb 2020 #33
I'm just being realistic. It is ingrained wnylib Feb 2020 #55
Good analysis. Convincing. Thanks. Things to think about. Agree we can't just sweep in with sweeping emmaverybo Feb 2020 #64
An expansion of Medicaid is good for those wnylib Feb 2020 #65
If we are to have universal healthcare, however we get there, we must pay higher taxes and that emmaverybo Feb 2020 #94
Excellent. Agree 100% Joinfortmill Feb 2020 #89
Michael Moore, take your tired ass shit somewhere else. nt oasis Feb 2020 #22
Wish he would go away redstateblues Feb 2020 #24
Moore Knows How to Reach People McKim Feb 2020 #62
"I've come to the conclusion that the old guard of the Democratic Party is a greater roadblock betsuni Feb 2020 #63
Nope RandySF Feb 2020 #25
Yes he was. In fact there were actual communist at that time in America. rusty quoin Feb 2020 #39
Michael Moore says a lot of sh** stopdiggin Feb 2020 #27
A strong safety net is not socialism; it's the regulation needed to make capitalism livable. SunSeeker Feb 2020 #28
I know it is early in the year but DURHAM D Feb 2020 #30
Killin' me, you are. emmaverybo Feb 2020 #34
LOL! murielm99 Feb 2020 #68
Totally missing the point which is about policies and values versus terminology. DanTex Feb 2020 #31
FDR tradition? Dem4Life1102 Feb 2020 #43
No, I mean the New Deal. DanTex Feb 2020 #47
The new deal? Dem4Life1102 Feb 2020 #61
FDR didn't deny socialism. trackfan Feb 2020 #37
I don't understand why MSNBC keeps bringing him on Dem4Life1102 Feb 2020 #38
Agreed Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Feb 2020 #42
Moore is never right on anything Gothmog Feb 2020 #49
This message was self-deleted by its author geralmar Feb 2020 #51
FDR's policies were Democratic socialist booley Feb 2020 #52
No they were not, as I have already posted, you either do not understand social democracy as opposed Celerity Feb 2020 #57
MM-""I've come to the conclusion that the old guard of the Democratic Party is a greater roadblock Cha Feb 2020 #53
Social Democrat is a better description Bradical79 Feb 2020 #58
Yes. I really wish Sanders et al would reclaim social democracy rather than democratic Nanjeanne Feb 2020 #73
Hmm. FDR was a member of the social aristocracy. PatrickforO Feb 2020 #59
Michael Moore also said that Ralph Nader would be a good President. He's a moron. n/t. NNadir Feb 2020 #60
I want to watch but can't find a link. Anybody know? betsuni Feb 2020 #69
AND FDR was 1000% ESTABLISHMENT leadership. Amimnoch Feb 2020 #71
Michael Moore is becoming less relevant as time passes... like the right wing... wyldwolf Feb 2020 #72
Michael Moore is an idiot...blinded by ? I personally think much of his spiel is self interest. Demsrule86 Feb 2020 #75
I remember FDR True Blue American Feb 2020 #78
My family had a picture of Roosevelt...first my Grandma...and then my Mom. I still have it...and Demsrule86 Feb 2020 #81
As a small child I listened True Blue American Feb 2020 #82
LOL! Absolutely desperate, foolish attemp to rebrand FDR to try to help Bernie. highplainsdem Feb 2020 #84
I am both a capitalist and a democratic socialist Cicada Feb 2020 #85
Even though he dresses like a slob, Michael Moore is part of the 1%. PubliusEnigma Feb 2020 #86
I doubt that, but Joinfortmill Feb 2020 #88
A lot of people say a lot of things about FDR. MineralMan Feb 2020 #93
Aren't your parents in their nineties? Blue_true Feb 2020 #121
Yes. I said few people. MineralMan Feb 2020 #122
Sorry, I missed the qualifier. Have your parents talked about FDR and Truman much? nt Blue_true Feb 2020 #123
Not a lot. Those times were MineralMan Feb 2020 #128
Michael Moore lies like a Trump. Zolorp Feb 2020 #97
Father-in-Law is reading a 3 book series on . . . Iliyah Feb 2020 #101
Socialist Norman Thomas knew better DBoon Feb 2020 #103
Listen to FDR explain why Michael Moore is wrong Gothmog Feb 2020 #105
Alrighty, then. ehrnst Feb 2020 #107
Michael Moore is Wrong once again. Cha Feb 2020 #131
Has moore ever been right on anything? Gothmog Feb 2020 #132
What about all his socialist programs WPA, NRA, doc03 Feb 2020 #109
Infrastructure spending...Keynesian stimulation of the economy. Demsrule86 Feb 2020 #118
Government-funded projects aren't "socialism" just because The Velveteen Ocelot Feb 2020 #119
The revisionism around what FDR was and did makes me lose Blue_true Feb 2020 #113
I love Mike... myohmy2 Feb 2020 #124
I'm positive he wasn't. im equally positive there wouldn't be DS without him. Kurt V. Feb 2020 #126
Michael Moore is an idiot. NurseJackie Feb 2020 #130
No doubt. Cha Feb 2020 #134
an outright lie as detailed in article, the second, saying Sanders is FDR reincarnate is laughable. Gothmog Feb 2020 #135
This picture.... I ... Gothmog Feb 2020 #136
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