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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
 

Awsi Dooger

(14,565 posts)
13. You've actually got posters here mocking the notion of a swing voter
Sat Feb 15, 2020, 07:24 PM
Feb 2020

They are simply ignorant. No other way to describe it. It is laughable when they trot out Rachel Bitecofer as a source, someone who demonstrates no conception whatsoever of how cycles vary based on situational landscape. She's actually forging 2020 forecasts based on 2018 midterm. If that isn't classic stupidity, nothing qualifies.

Why don't we have a panel with Rachel Maddow and Rachel Bitecofer? Both of them can wave their fresh findings in the air and allow the real world to sail comfortably over their head.

This is why Nate Silver is so superior. His formulas apply logical variables from all directions with a foundational backdrop and numerical approximation. It is not moronically assertive of a new reality that no one understands except himself.

Primaries do not resemble general elections at all. That's where analysts get in trouble, particularly the ones relying on turnout. Primaries are likeminded people so there can indeed be wild swings of preference in short span. Everyone is seeing and prioritizing basically the same thing, so they react similarly and quickly. There are also massive gaps in enthusiasm from one candidate's base to the next.

It leads to idiotic lollipop assumptions of the same dynamic transferring to fall. Wait until the nation sees our Bernie! Waves of voters changing mind to flock to his side. New young voters from every direction. Meanwhile the reality is stern and unimpressed. Those conservative and liberal percentages are extremely rigid in each state. That's why I have referenced them here since 2002. It's not water free flowing in a fish tank. Those percentages are like an unbendable wall. I guarantee a Rachel Bitecofer type doesn't know a thing about that, while Nate Silver does. I have seen him reference them many times.

That Wisconsin general election is dictated by those rigid walls of 36% self-identified conservatives and 27% self-identified liberals. So little margin for error when you are on the short stick. Trump received a lower than typical split of conservatives in 2016. That will not happen again. Nationally he got 81% among conservatives and 88% among Republicans. Romney in defeat four years earlier got 82% among conservatives and 93% among Republicans. Using Wisconsin as example again, Romney got 95% of Republican support while Trump was only 90%. There is no wavering on the right anymore. Trump is at 97% approval among Republicans in some polls. When polls in those midwestern swing states don't look as good as we want or expect them to look, that is what is going on. We are facing a considerably stronger opponent in 2020 than 2016.

There are comparisons here to 1972 and 1988. It won't be like either one. A Bernie Sanders nomination will closely resemble 2016. Narrow defeat. Instead of our party failing to prioritize the correct states, we will campaign aggressively in the proper areas but be turned away via sheer preference, those white swing voters allowing benefit of a doubt to incumbency while refusing to accept a socialist.

Either you understand that or you don't. As I've mentioned, it's quite simple for me because I live in Florida, where it already played out in 2018 with socialism fear attaching Gillum, and I have lots of right wing friends based on my decades betting sports in Las Vegas, and I attend countless college sporting events dominated by that loud white crowd.

This afternoon at a Canes basketball game I saw a guy with a T-shirt that said, "Breaking News: Nobody Cares." That's unfortunately extremely accurate. There won't be a wave of unrest to throw out Donald Trump. The right track/wrong track number was 31/61 for -30 net on election day 2016. Right now it is basically right track 40% wrong track 54%. That may sound like bad news for the incumbent, until you realize it is almost exactly the same as the November 2012 breakdown when Obama won handily. The number that day was right track 40.6% and wrong track 54.1%.

The nation is not going to feel fairly good about the direction of the country and decide to switch course to a socialist. There are always hints in the midterm -- 46% of Floridians saying Gillum was too liberal for the state, and 42% of Georgians saying the same about Abrams. Those are astonishing numbers. I wonder if Rachel Bitecofer is aware of them, or the significance? Allow me to howl at her expense.

The variable is not complicated: We're going to reject anyone we consider too liberal, and not give it a second thought

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Bernie is currently polling +18% among Independents OliverQ Feb 2020 #1
reading is fundamental wyldwolf Feb 2020 #9
Swing voters. rownesheck Feb 2020 #2
I've always wondered what these people are like. Amimnoch Feb 2020 #67
branding evertonfc Feb 2020 #3
The claimed 'Blue Wave' certainly did not carry 2018, and cannot carry GE 2020 empedocles Feb 2020 #4
Ken Stern, author of Republican Like Me: How I Left the Liberal Bubble and Learned to Love the Right DanTex Feb 2020 #5
Lol. Jennifer Rubin must have been busy. Hassin Bin Sober Feb 2020 #72
I'd really like to know who a "key" voter is. I thought there were either voters, Scotch-Irish Feb 2020 #6
Swing voters in the swing states...we need to pick the person most likely they will vote for. nt UniteFightBack Feb 2020 #7
Key voters are those in swing states who are open to vote for a Democratic nominee andym Feb 2020 #8
Rachel Bitecofer's model says swing voters are irrelevant, not "key" Fiendish Thingy Feb 2020 #10
We do have to attrack more voters than just us Dems to win. Same with repug as both... brush Feb 2020 #11
Nope- not according to Bitecofer's model Fiendish Thingy Feb 2020 #18
Who said anything about persuading trump voters. We still need Independents. brush Feb 2020 #19
Many have insisted we need to "flip" independent swing voters Fiendish Thingy Feb 2020 #21
That's who I was referring to. About 40% of voters are non-affiliated. brush Feb 2020 #23
But if they voted for HRC in 2016, they don't need to be "flipped" Fiendish Thingy Feb 2020 #33
Hope so, but remember, some 77k of them in 3 states were pivotal in trump's EC win brush Feb 2020 #35
1% or less of the total vote in each Rust Belt state Fiendish Thingy Feb 2020 #38
Then Bitecofer is an idiot...if we lose WI, MI and PA...we are toast...swing states. Demsrule86 Feb 2020 #25
Well, I know 4 moderate R's , who voted here in PA for Trump. apcalc Feb 2020 #30
So if Warren or Sanders are the nominee, they'll stay home? Fiendish Thingy Feb 2020 #34
I'm not sure what they'll do. Trump again, over them? apcalc Feb 2020 #37
Many cling to outdated notions about the electorate. Garrett78 Feb 2020 #70
The truth that many do not want to acknowledge is this: Downtown Hound Feb 2020 #12
Risk betting on young voters showing up on election day is not a good bet. There just happens to.. brush Feb 2020 #24
What happened in 2016 Wellstone ruled Feb 2020 #32
Oh please, I'm a Gen X'er who grew up watching Red Dawn and Rambo movies Downtown Hound Feb 2020 #40
Glad you're over it but are you willing to bet that others on different ends of the ideological... brush Feb 2020 #59
Yeah, I'd make that bet Downtown Hound Feb 2020 #60
I couldn't disagree more. And maybe change your icon to Sanders if you're so sure. brush Feb 2020 #61
The math doesn't lie Downtown Hound Feb 2020 #62
To draw that conclusion after only two tiny all-white states have voted is just silly. brush Feb 2020 #63
As I've posted in numerous posts now Downtown Hound Feb 2020 #64
Believe that if you want. The 2018 House takeover was of moderates flipping mostly red districts brush Feb 2020 #65
You can't compare localized races in different areas of the country to a national election Downtown Hound Feb 2020 #66
Whatever. Enough Dems know a socialist can't win the GE so he won't wi our primary. Have a good day. brush Feb 2020 #68
I decide what my icon is, not you. Thanks. Downtown Hound Feb 2020 #69
So why are you supporting Joe Biden? Cha Feb 2020 #71
Because I like Biden Downtown Hound Feb 2020 #73
Total BS...young voters do not turn out in sufficient numbers ...we need swing voters or we will Demsrule86 Feb 2020 #26
See post 39. n/t Downtown Hound Feb 2020 #41
This is like Lucy with the football. Every election since at least 1972, Squinch Feb 2020 #36
Then perhaps you could explain to me how, in 2018, Downtown Hound Feb 2020 #39
OK, yes. Young people did turn out in large numbers in 2018. That was also an election Squinch Feb 2020 #42
Do you realize what you just wrote makes no sense? Downtown Hound Feb 2020 #43
Who won in 2018? Was it the Our Revolution candidates? Did the young people who Squinch Feb 2020 #44
Dems won in 2018 Downtown Hound Feb 2020 #45
No. ALMOST NO Our Revolution candidates won. Lots of young people voted, and Squinch Feb 2020 #46
Again, missing the point Downtown Hound Feb 2020 #47
I'm saying that there is no data which indicates Sanders will be any more of an incentive Squinch Feb 2020 #49
Answer the question Downtown Hound Feb 2020 #50
No. That's not what I'm saying. I am saying that the same number will come out whether it's Squinch Feb 2020 #51
If that's true then Sanders wins anyways Downtown Hound Feb 2020 #53
Because he turns off a lot of other voters. He and his followers do not shy away from this fact. Squinch Feb 2020 #55
Going back to my earlier question, are these moderate voters of the older generations Downtown Hound Feb 2020 #57
You've actually got posters here mocking the notion of a swing voter Awsi Dooger Feb 2020 #13
There was a faction here in the early 2000s that said... wyldwolf Feb 2020 #15
You: "We're going to reject anyone we consider too liberal, and not give it a second thought" Downtown Hound Feb 2020 #17
Your anecdotes are trumped by Bitecofer's data. Fiendish Thingy Feb 2020 #20
+100000 Demsrule86 Feb 2020 #27
Can't sell socialism to voters when they have the perception that oasis Feb 2020 #14
Interesting read. The writer basically ignores data and instead uses the criteria Nanjeanne Feb 2020 #16
Bernie's imploding all the way to first place! Hassin Bin Sober Feb 2020 #22
Well he will be last place in a general and Trump gets four more years...I would vote for him but... Demsrule86 Feb 2020 #28
Elizabeth Warren is NOT a socialist. She doesn't even play one on TV. pnwmom Feb 2020 #29
Socialism is the best way I know to lose an election. democratisphere Feb 2020 #31
sanders appears to have a hard cap of 25% of the Democratdic party electorate Gothmog Feb 2020 #48
So are you saying that 75% of Dems won't vote for him if he's the nominee? Downtown Hound Feb 2020 #54
I will support the nominee of the party even if it is sanders Gothmog Feb 2020 #56
It looks like he's doing just fine so far. Downtown Hound Feb 2020 #58
We are 9 months away, polls mean meh Champion Jack Feb 2020 #52
Socialism would kill down ballot candidates Gothmog Feb 2020 #74
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