Democratic Primaries

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)

98. When does that $450 billion starts getting saved?

Thu Feb 20, 2020, 08:14 PM

Feb 2020

The Yale study doesn't say.

You personal choices matter. 30.6% of Anericans are obese, in Australia, a country which did not launch national healthcare until 1975, the obesity rate is 9.1%. That people here are making choices that result in them getting sick DOES matter on costs. The ACA deals with people's choices relative to their healthcare, Sanders so far is saying "let's put in place SOME system that fix everyone". I used "SOME" because he has provided zero details so far, so except for the name, what he is proposing is a big unknown.

Expansion of the mechanisms which the ACA put in place gets us farther down the road to where we need to be than the idea (not plan because plans have details attached to them) that Sanders has tossed out.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Did I hear Bernie mention a payroll tax? [View all] RandySF Feb 2020 OP

Instead of healthcare spending of any kind? applegrove Feb 2020 #1

I pay a small premium and no deductible RandySF Feb 2020 #8

Look at your paystub now MoonlitKnight Feb 2020 #33

Will it go up or remain the same? RandySF Feb 2020 #34

One way or another, middle class taxes will go up (whether it's payroll or income tax)... thesquanderer Feb 2020 #43

Bernie has said both are going up for middle income folks HarlanPepper Feb 2020 #64

his bogus spin - your med bills go down, your taxes go up. no net change really nt msongs Feb 2020 #2

Yes. Total tripe. nt DURHAM D Feb 2020 #5

What about healthy people that have no medical bills to speak of? Blue_true Feb 2020 #17

Seriously? TexasBushwhacker Feb 2020 #24

Most people don't think of one accident away. Blue_true Feb 2020 #26

Tell that to children. Hey, kid, why didn't you prevent.. dawg day Feb 2020 #57

I am not interested in engaging emotional arguments. Blue_true Feb 2020 #88

That's actually an emotional argument-- "It's your own fault!" dawg day Feb 2020 #104

re:"MFA is great for sick people, not for healthier people that have small premium and expenditures" thesquanderer Feb 2020 #51

Yes and before Medicare, who paid for Grandma? dawg day Feb 2020 #54

Lifestyle affects both the cost of healthcare and insurance rates. Blue_true Feb 2020 #89

re: "It is insane of you to basically state otherwise." thesquanderer Feb 2020 #96

You danced around my central point. Blue_true Feb 2020 #100

re: "but the ACA already has mechanisms to do that, why don't we build on what exists" thesquanderer Feb 2020 #101

Australia has a dual system, so does Canada and Britain. Blue_true Feb 2020 #102

Your employer probably paid 3x that premium. dawg day Feb 2020 #52

OK, so does Bernie's plan FORCE empoyers to move that $$ they pay as a healthcare sdfernando Feb 2020 #56

Just pointing out we pay a whole lot already. dawg day Feb 2020 #59

Bernie HAS NOT figured out the total cost. He is selling you a dream. nt Blue_true Feb 2020 #91

He hasn't sold me anything. I have similar doubts about Sanders's plan. dawg day Feb 2020 #105

You know what the main reason behind stagnate is for the last 20 years? Hassin Bin Sober Feb 2020 #68

Some people need more than emotional arguments and claims. Blue_true Feb 2020 #92

Yale says $450 billion less than we pay now. Hassin Bin Sober Feb 2020 #94

When does that $450 billion starts getting saved? Blue_true Feb 2020 #98

Bernie doesn't have a plan. He really hasn't looked into details like Blue_true Feb 2020 #90

If you don't have kids, you still pay school taxes. dawg day Feb 2020 #55

Please give more than emotional justifications. Blue_true Feb 2020 #93

I'm not justifying anything about Sanders's plan-- dawg day Feb 2020 #103

But... other countries give comprehensive care dawg day Feb 2020 #53

Yes. DURHAM D Feb 2020 #3

Payroll taxes are regressive. Did he really say that (I'm not watching)? George II Feb 2020 #4

Yes DURHAM D Feb 2020 #7

Yes he did. Maru Kitteh Feb 2020 #11

re: "Payroll taxes are regressive. " thesquanderer Feb 2020 #39

That should be a deal breaker for everyone. madaboutharry Feb 2020 #6

It will be a deal breaker for a lot of general election voters. nt. MH1 Feb 2020 #14

Also there will be an increase in the federal income tax for middle income folks on top of that HarlanPepper Feb 2020 #18

Exactly. Where ACA take that amount into account when calculating payment. krissey Feb 2020 #38

A payroll tax to pay for healthcare? N/T lapucelle Feb 2020 #9

Yes. R B Garr Feb 2020 #12

Will there be a second payrol tax to pay off student debt? N/T lapucelle Feb 2020 #13

LOL, exactly. R B Garr Feb 2020 #19

Everyone doesn't have student debt TexasBushwhacker Feb 2020 #25

So the plan is to institute a regressive tax because "everyone needs healthcare". lapucelle Feb 2020 #29

It's not regressive. Mosby Feb 2020 #62

Payroll taxes are by definition regressive. N/T lapucelle Feb 2020 #63

Hardly, they are based on the number of employees and hours worked Mosby Feb 2020 #66

Do you know what payroll taxes are and who pays them? lapucelle Feb 2020 #67

How is paying into social security regressive? Mosby Feb 2020 #77

It's not unusual for business owners not to understand lapucelle Feb 2020 #80

Your link Mosby Feb 2020 #83

Yes I know. lapucelle Feb 2020 #85

Lower income people have a better ROI from their payments into the system. Mosby Feb 2020 #97

That doesn't lessen the impact of the tax being regressive lapucelle Feb 2020 #99

The current payroll tax of 1.5% would go up to at least 7.5%, stopbush Feb 2020 #21

That would cut my current healthcare costs per month in half. I'll take it. TCJ70 Feb 2020 #79

You would also need to pay a premium of $135 per month for each family member, stopbush Feb 2020 #81

That's still cheaper...n/t TCJ70 Feb 2020 #86

And of course, your employer would also need to pay that 7.5% tax on each of stopbush Feb 2020 #87

That's less than they currently contribute to my health insurance... TCJ70 Feb 2020 #95

BINGO! This is something he and his camp never mention. R B Garr Feb 2020 #10

re: "Plus he never considered union benefits" thesquanderer Feb 2020 #40

lol, that article is a few months old and it explains that the "new" revised plan R B Garr Feb 2020 #45

You said he never considered it, but he addressed it 6 months ago. thesquanderer Feb 2020 #46

He never considered it -- until it became an obvious omission, lol. That much is obvious. R B Garr Feb 2020 #47

Probably because that was the first time he got that feedback about it. thesquanderer Feb 2020 #50

Thanks for continuing to make my point. He never considered obvious things like union benefits, R B Garr Feb 2020 #69

re: "so what else is he putting out there that needs so much 'feedback.' " thesquanderer Feb 2020 #70

Your own article shows the correction he had to make to even have a dialogue about R B Garr Feb 2020 #71

re: "You are trying to take insurance away from 150 to 160 million people" thesquanderer Feb 2020 #72

No. M4A takes away insurance from 150 to 160 million people and forces them on to R B Garr Feb 2020 #73

if you think every plan has to be perfect before it is presented, then ok, we'll never agree... thesquanderer Feb 2020 #76

No. You are just flat out wrong. Your article just proved my point, so thanks for that. R B Garr Feb 2020 #78

re: "nothing but petty insults and misinformation." thesquanderer Feb 2020 #82

Your first post was an article that supported what I said about union rights. Union rights were R B Garr Feb 2020 #84

Sanders acknowledged - you make more than 29K per year? PAYROLL TAX on you Maru Kitteh Feb 2020 #15

My brother would not be alive without his union health insurance.... George II Feb 2020 #20

So the real Bernie is finally showing his hand? dware Feb 2020 #16

He claims that the employers who are saving their premium costs would instead... George II Feb 2020 #22

Yeah, because dware Feb 2020 #23

You'd have to make them, by law ... mr_lebowski Feb 2020 #30

If that became a law it would be struck down by the courts in a New York minute. George II Feb 2020 #31

Why? mr_lebowski Feb 2020 #32

Same here democrattotheend Feb 2020 #42

Yup ... and at my office I've heard it's $1500/month to add spouse and kids ... mr_lebowski Feb 2020 #44

If you are considered to be an "essential employee" then it definitely matters. TexasTowelie Feb 2020 #48

What do they do that with ... like hedge fund managers and stuff? mr_lebowski Feb 2020 #49

My experience was in the insurance industry (property & casualty). TexasTowelie Feb 2020 #60

No, employers do NOT need to stay on the hook SoCalNative Feb 2020 #58

These are not mutually exclusive ideas ... mr_lebowski Feb 2020 #61

For union members, it would be required by law... thesquanderer Feb 2020 #41

He did. herding cats Feb 2020 #27

Another reason why BS would get crushed in a general... Callado119 Feb 2020 #28

Yup, totally crushed, smashed. And for good reason. R B Garr Feb 2020 #35

The mandatory employee ownership idea is a non-starter as well ecstatic Feb 2020 #36

I don't get this at all...who the fuck is Sanders to decide how a business starts their Demsrule86 Feb 2020 #107

I knew this plan would end up costing people that are making 11 an hour, unable to pay monthly krissey Feb 2020 #37

Your income taxes will also increase under Bernie's M4A plan HarlanPepper Feb 2020 #65

This is how it always works with some...they never consider the consequences of what they propose... Demsrule86 Feb 2020 #108

Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2020 #74

I am 8 years away from Medicare Zolorp Feb 2020 #75

K Cha Feb 2020 #106

I believe that was one of the things that killed single payer in his own home state ehrnst Feb 2020 #109