Democratic Primaries

Tweedy

(1,284 posts)

54. It is not possible to lie about an unknown

Tue Feb 25, 2020, 10:53 AM

Feb 2020

Health care costs came down significantly in every country that implemented a plan like M4A.

Medicare's administration costs are already lower than any plan currently in existence.

Ergo, we know the overall costs will come down should we implement a M4A system.

We do not know how much those costs will decrease. We do not know how long it will take to see those benefits (it took the Swiss eight years to see the savings, for example).

This is not a lie. It is an unknown.

We do know it will be cheaper than what we are doing now. We also know it would save us even more by keeping people alive (& contributing to the system).

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Bernie is lying about the real cost of M4A [View all] dansolo Feb 2020 OP

Bernie has some bigtime explaining to do in tonight's debate. Look oasis Feb 2020 #1

No he's not. And regardless of how you spin it, DanTex Feb 2020 #2

There is literally no way to deliver care for 25 million more people for less money Recursion Feb 2020 #3

Peer reviewed studies like the one in Lancet disagree. DanTex Feb 2020 #6

No, they don't. They say it's cheaper per person, which it is Recursion Feb 2020 #7

then... myohmy2 Feb 2020 #11

By paying their doctors half of what ours make. It's not really a mystery Recursion Feb 2020 #16

That's not true in Canada, it's true in the US. Fiendish Thingy Feb 2020 #41

I am informed about this. US physicians make twice the OECD average Recursion Feb 2020 #60

The US spends twice as much on healthcare due to insurance company PROFITS Fiendish Thingy Feb 2020 #63

Oh, God no. If only it were that simple Recursion Feb 2020 #64

That's simply not true, and I have no idea why you would think that. DanTex Feb 2020 #15

Because I read the actual study and not a journalists' summary of it Recursion Feb 2020 #17

The actual study concludes that it will save the US money. DanTex Feb 2020 #20

+1 ancianita Feb 2020 #42

Letter To Lancet JGug1 Feb 2020 #22

So the better just let them die? Voltaire2 Feb 2020 #8

No, better to acknowledge it's going to cost money to treat them Recursion Feb 2020 #10

Providing Best Medicine To Everyone JGug1 Feb 2020 #24

Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2020 #53

And dont let em tell you different JackInGreen Feb 2020 #4

Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2020 #57

The political problem is most people have no idea what their insurance costs BeyondGeography Feb 2020 #13

It still floors me every time somebody claims that Recursion Feb 2020 #19

They will have to when the minimum wage goes up nt Fiendish Thingy Feb 2020 #40

You're correct. Most employers will not MontanaMama Feb 2020 #56

Our democracy is in the ICU and triage will only be effective if we get big donors the hell JudyM Feb 2020 #77

Yes BeyondGeography Feb 2020 #78

That may EVENTUALLY be true... Happy Hoosier Feb 2020 #45

No it doesn't. If that was true surely you can direct us to where.... George II Feb 2020 #59

Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2020 #62

This message was self-deleted by its author NurseJackie Feb 2020 #5

BS seems more trumplike as time and exposure go on. empedocles Feb 2020 #9

+100000000 Celerity Feb 2020 #18

The similarities are eerie dalton99a Feb 2020 #30

I know so many lies on top of lies. Smoke and mirrors. NurseJackie Feb 2020 #72

A new study from Yale disagrees with you, Dan TheRickles Feb 2020 #12

That study doesn't refute anything I said dansolo Feb 2020 #55

Sanders' math holds up. MisterFred Feb 2020 #14

Savings From Medicare For ALL JGug1 Feb 2020 #21

Thanks for posting this. nt redqueen Feb 2020 #26

Since insurance companies will be removed from the equation, The Wizard Feb 2020 #31

Medicare for all will save all of you a lot of money knightmaar Feb 2020 #23

I'm all for M4A...but I don't think that statement can be said for everyone. TCJ70 Feb 2020 #27

$50 per month? knightmaar Feb 2020 #33

It's an HMO and an amazingly good deal... TCJ70 Feb 2020 #36

Nice. I guess there are good versions. knightmaar Feb 2020 #46

Yeah. In our case the employer subsidizes the same amount for each of our plans... TCJ70 Feb 2020 #49

Sanders plan to pay for proposals does not add up Gothmog Feb 2020 #25

The cost doesn't matter to Bernie, Progressive dog Feb 2020 #28

Here's What 22 Separate Studies Found: Medicare for All Would Cost Less Than the For-Profit Status Q lutherj Feb 2020 #29

And to accomplish that, everyone needs to contribute, like in europe. oldsoftie Feb 2020 #35

In other words you admit that the OP is bs, and now you're trying lutherj Feb 2020 #48

No, the candidates think WE are too stupid to see thru the false promises. oldsoftie Feb 2020 #50

So even though the rest of the OECD all have it, and the US currently pays DOUBLE the OECD lutherj Feb 2020 #65

Um, when you "cancel" someones debt, someone else LOSES. Its not money just sitting there. oldsoftie Feb 2020 #67

Thanks for the Republican talking points. lutherj Feb 2020 #70

Those are called "facts you dont like" oldsoftie Feb 2020 #71

I will when I get off work. You really going to stand by that lutherj Feb 2020 #73

Of course. The only accurate way to compare is % of GDP oldsoftie Feb 2020 #74

Calling the front runner for the Democratic nomination a liar is not a good look. n/t totodeinhere Feb 2020 #32

You must have missed the six months Biden was ahead. TwilightZone Feb 2020 #51

That's why we all need to stop it and come together if we are going to win in November. n/t totodeinhere Feb 2020 #61

Totals for everything he wants to do is around 60 trillion. And it'll never happen. oldsoftie Feb 2020 #34

In the end medical care is going to always come down to the money. cstanleytech Feb 2020 #37

Let's talk turkey and not conjecture, gab13by13 Feb 2020 #38

You are the one distorting the truth Fiendish Thingy Feb 2020 #39

How about "mistaken" or "wrong" instead of "lying." "Lying" plays right into Russia's hands. nt LAS14 Feb 2020 #43

You all seem to forget DarleenMB Feb 2020 #44

I just signed up for medicare a part D and a Medicare supplement. redstatebluegirl Feb 2020 #76

How about "I don't think the facts support Bernie's estimate of the cost of M4A." LAS14 Feb 2020 #47

Sanders says he will create 20 million new jobs so that crushes everything / sarc uponit7771 Feb 2020 #52

It is not possible to lie about an unknown Tweedy Feb 2020 #54

We do not know that it will be cheaper dansolo Feb 2020 #66

We do know Tweedy Feb 2020 #69

He also doesn't factor into account the number of people who will lose their jobs, the cost... George II Feb 2020 #58

Oh, dont worry about all that. It'll ALL be taken care of with all the new tax money from the rich! oldsoftie Feb 2020 #68

Facts Versus Opinion corbettkroehler Feb 2020 #75