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Gothmog

(183,554 posts)
20. No, Bernie Sanders' Discussion of Cuba's Castro is Nothing Like Obama's
Tue Feb 25, 2020, 04:28 PM
Feb 2020



Eric Levitz in New York Magazine on Monday makes the case that Bernie Sanders’ 1985 interview admiring some aspects of Fidel Castro’s regime in Cuba was roughly the same as Barack Obama’s 2016 discussion of Castro. This is in large part just an amplification of ideas flying around Twitter this week, as in the tweet pictured above. A quick look at Sanders’ and Obama’s statements shows why this analysis is entirely incorrect.

In 2016, Obama was addressing hundreds of young business and social entrepreneurs from across Latin America in Buenos Aires, Argentina. If you read the transcript of his talk, you see immediately that Obama, in his signature style, was reinforcing the message of pragmatism and evidence-based decision making — as he puts it “be[ing] practical and just choos[ing] from what works.” He was in fact arguing against ideology, at a time when he must have been watching the destabilizing effects the surge in ideological politics was causing not just in the United States but in other countries long considered staid and practical.

In discussing Cuba, Obama relayed direct conversations he had with the Castros, insight into the diplomacy of highlighting policy areas where there might be more agreement in order to create common ground with space to push for change in other areas. I doubt many would think it rational to approach a nascent foreign relationship with a guns blazing, take no prisoners attitude, especially when any agreement depended on the other country’s support. Obama was relaying one relatively high stakes conversation with foreign leaders to another unaligned audience in a foreign venue. I expect it does not take an expert in international relations to see the U.S. interest in pitching this information a certain way for both of these audiences.

In contrast, Bernie Sanders’ 1985 interview was not conducted for foreign consumption or to support U.S. national interests, and it did not come at a time of opening up in the U.S.-Cuba relationship. Instead, it was given for a local public access TV show. It was effectively a vanity project giving Sanders a platform to expound his views of politics and the world. Because of this, the messaging here is all Sanders. Further contrasting Obama, it was rooted in ideology, with Sanders opening, “As a socialist, the word socialism doesn’t frighten me,” before launching into his discussion of self-described socialist regimes. While you could argue the interview might not be a perfect snapshot of today’s presidential candidate’s innermost thoughts, it was a clear statement of what Sanders believed at the time and unfiltered by the degree of drafting and review Obama’s messaging on this topic would have undergone....

From this brief look, we can see that Obama’s talk involved a little flattery, a little spin, and a good deal of appealing to an audience that he saw as future leaders. In contrast, Sanders’ words were simply praise without an intentional objective towards a defined audience. Conflating these two discussions is flimsy, misleading, and indicative of the pro-regime propaganda captured in Sanders’ own sentiment.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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"the post 2014 strides that Cuba had made as part of the negotiated pre-conditions for normalizing.. wyldwolf Feb 2020 #1
BS was talking about "results" of Castro's 1959 revolution. lapucelle Feb 2020 #3
sirota knows exactly what he was doing as far as this goes.. Cha Feb 2020 #8
Thank you! mcar Feb 2020 #2
K&R highplainsdem Feb 2020 #4
It's criminal how Sirota keeps getting away with taking people out of context. Drunken Irishman Feb 2020 #5
And people keep faling for it. lapucelle Feb 2020 #10
So they're all lying? NurseJackie Feb 2020 #6
Now why does sirota think he Cha Feb 2020 #7
K&R, Obama praised the baby in the bath water Sanders praised the babies father uponit7771 Feb 2020 #9
Thank you, lapucelle. brer cat Feb 2020 #11
I don't know anyone named BS. nt yaesu Feb 2020 #12
Sirota: another Sanders staffer who thought voting for Jill Stein Hassler Feb 2020 #13
Yeah, shows where his head was at Cha Feb 2020 #15
Davey Sirota lied again. sheshe2 Feb 2020 #14
Thank you for the fact check. It will not make some happy, but facts are facts. (nt) ehrnst Feb 2020 #16
LOL. Yes he did. He praised the healthcare and education system, same as Bernie. DanTex Feb 2020 #17
Sanders praised Castro and his revolution two days ago on national TV. It's a falsehood to say lapucelle Feb 2020 #18
No, he didn't. Bernie praised Castro's education program, same as what Obama did. DanTex Feb 2020 #19
That is the same quote from the same speech. lapucelle Feb 2020 #21
I often ask the same of you in regards to logical fallacies... LanternWaste Feb 2020 #22
... sheshe2 Mar 2020 #44
You are wrong Gothmog Feb 2020 #26
Nope... not the same at all. ehrnst Feb 2020 #28
LOL. The Cuban education and healthcare systems didn't suddenly improve in 2014. DanTex Feb 2020 #29
Um... didn't say that they did. ehrnst Feb 2020 #30
Yeah you did. You made the absurd argument that Obama was complementing DanTex Feb 2020 #31
He was talking about progress made towards an agreement, not an indoctrination ehrnst Feb 2020 #32
Do you ever wonder why Bernie is so far ahead in the polls? DanTex Feb 2020 #33
More frantic attempts at a red herring. ehrnst Feb 2020 #34
LOL. By all means, keep up the same anti-Bernie strategy. DanTex Feb 2020 #35
Yet an even more desperate attempt at a red herring.... ehrnst Feb 2020 #36
Keep it up! You're totally taking Bernie down! It's working! DanTex Feb 2020 #37
The desperation increases... ehrnst Feb 2020 #38
No, Bernie Sanders' Discussion of Cuba's Castro is Nothing Like Obama's Gothmog Feb 2020 #20
Thanks, Goth! Cha Feb 2020 #23
K&R Sloumeau Feb 2020 #24
you can always count on @JoeBiden to defend @BarackObama 's record and legacy. Gothmog Feb 2020 #25
Thank You Me. Feb 2020 #27
Havana gives front-page coverage to Bernie Sanders for praising Fidel Castro Gothmog Feb 2020 #39
K Cha Feb 2020 #40
This makes me smile Gothmog Mar 2020 #41
Wow... lapucelle Mar 2020 #42
Sanders may not get any delegates in Florida Gothmog Mar 2020 #43
Sirota is SCUM NCProgressive Mar 2020 #45
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