Democratic Primaries

thesquanderer

(13,025 posts)

90. re: "I have looked at these summaries. Again, without specifics, they are meaningless."

Tue Feb 25, 2020, 06:05 PM

Feb 2020

Not meaningless, because for the purposes of our conversation, the most important thing is that NEITHER candidate suggests funding MFA simply by increasing FICA to cover everything, which is the premise that you put forth and then knocked down. So maybe we don't know in full detail exactly how they WILL be paying for it (as you said, the plans lack specifics), but we DO know one way they will NOT be proposing paying for it... your FICA assumption.

It is normal for candidate plans to lack more specifics. (Does Bloomberg have a more detailed healthcare financing plan?) As I said in another thread, details don't win elections. NONE of the plans get passed without extensive reworking through Congress. So all candidates' plans are starting points. Some will happen, some won't, all will change as they are worked on, some more than others. Rough outlines are really all we need, because further details wouldn't survive the process anyway. We just need to see a candidate's basic ideas and priorities, and a rough idea of how they can see paying for it. At a certain point, each new detail is more likely to lose a vote than gain one.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

111 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

How does Medicare for all save ME money? I need a side by side break down... [View all] cbdo2007 Feb 2020 OP

It lowers your car insurance krispos42 Feb 2020 #1

Has Bernie said that? democrattotheend Feb 2020 #5

With Medicare for All cannabis_flower Feb 2020 #20

Sounds like you either don't have health insurance or carry too much first party benefits bucolic_frolic Feb 2020 #6

I have health insurance through my job. krispos42 Feb 2020 #91

Bet it won't. Currently, Medicare does not pay if it's due to an auto accident, until auto insur- Hoyt Feb 2020 #17

wont we still have to buy a supplement AND our taxes go up so we can get the 'free' M4A? samnsara Feb 2020 #2

He makes it clear that dental, optical, hearing aids and home care Cal Carpenter Feb 2020 #11

All current Medicare recipients woulld lose their Medicare as it is legislated. Big Blue Marble Feb 2020 #27

I'm not sure what you mean by this Cal Carpenter Feb 2020 #41

Your link refers to the impact on current Medicaid, not Medicare. Big Blue Marble Feb 2020 #46

I gave you that link because it turns your claim on its head. Cal Carpenter Feb 2020 #49

The headline is: "How Will Medicare-for-all Proposals Affect Medicaid?" Big Blue Marble Feb 2020 #75

Medicare is an entitlement. Big Blue Marble Feb 2020 #77

That's what I've been asking for a long time. I see Sanders made a flourish of pulling out... George II Feb 2020 #3

Warren has done this, I don't know how many times! I'll bet it's on her website, too! CTyankee Feb 2020 #4

You have to 'ballpark' what your current ins. premiums/fees/drug costs, what your income tax bp is. ancianita Feb 2020 #7

Also out of pocket costs for dental, optical, hearing aids and home care Cal Carpenter Feb 2020 #15

Right. So the more specific one's list, the better comparison of their current costs with M4A costs. ancianita Feb 2020 #31

Not everyone will save money... TCJ70 Feb 2020 #8

The employer pays the 7.5% based on their payroll expenses, not the employee Cal Carpenter Feb 2020 #14

I didn't realize that. That's good to know and definitely makes my situation better than it was. TCJ70 Feb 2020 #26

What you do not say is that all the care delivered will similar Big Blue Marble Feb 2020 #40

hmmmmmmmm Dyedinthewoolliberal Feb 2020 #106

I absolutely think universal health care can be implemented. Big Blue Marble Feb 2020 #110

Just another glaring hole in Sanders' funding plan for M4A stopbush Feb 2020 #45

re: "expand current Medicare from covering 19% to 100%...you are increasing those covered five fold" thesquanderer Feb 2020 #52

Sorry, I was mistaken. FICA contributions do NOT fund Medicaid, only Medicare. stopbush Feb 2020 #55

It's not FICA, but all those other government paid for health plans are still paid for somehow. thesquanderer Feb 2020 #62

What, exactly, are "all those other government-paid health plans?" stopbush Feb 2020 #63

Everything between the 19% for Medicare and the 35% who are actually covered by the government. thesquanderer Feb 2020 #69

As I pointed out above - using your source - only 14% of Americans are on Medicare stopbush Feb 2020 #72

Why ASSUME anything, instead of actually getting the facts? thesquanderer Feb 2020 #78

Neither Sanders nor Warren has offered a comprehensive plan for paying for MFA. stopbush Feb 2020 #87

re: "I have looked at these summaries. Again, without specifics, they are meaningless." thesquanderer Feb 2020 #90

You're forgetting something important: luvtheGWN Feb 2020 #22

I didn't forget those things. The OP just wasn't about them. n/t TCJ70 Feb 2020 #36

Right squirecam Feb 2020 #48

It's in the Sanders plan. Cuthbert Allgood Feb 2020 #60

There is literally no way to enforce this...you aren't required to buy your company's plan now but cbdo2007 Feb 2020 #71

Where is that in Bernie's MFA proposal? I didn't see that. ehrnst Feb 2020 #111

All of these are speculation, but this is getting down to the meat of my question... cbdo2007 Feb 2020 #73

I disagree. luvtheGWN Feb 2020 #79

Why does the entire premise of this OP bug me? Laelth Feb 2020 #9

I'm always torn Midnightwalk Feb 2020 #12

That's fair enough. Laelth Feb 2020 #21

Only Americans aren't saying that they want M4A frazzled Feb 2020 #54

That's the central disagreement and danger Midnightwalk Feb 2020 #61

Yes HarlanPepper Feb 2020 #19

I take it that this response is ironic. Laelth Feb 2020 #30

This is not how it's being billed as by them. squirecam Feb 2020 #50

The sales technique for M4A leaves much to be desired. Laelth Feb 2020 #53

Unfortunately, most of the electorate doesn't care about anyone but themselves... cbdo2007 Feb 2020 #24

I simply can't believe that the majority of the electorate thinks that way. Laelth Feb 2020 #37

Especially on the health care issue...well and guns and abortion and... cbdo2007 Feb 2020 #58

+1 ancianita Feb 2020 #32

Agreed - it's a me, me, me OP womanofthehills Feb 2020 #57

Is everything about you? cannabis_flower Feb 2020 #10

actually yes, that's the point of a democracy lol. cbdo2007 Feb 2020 #38

That's a good idea for Bernie to put out 10 real-world examples. DanTex Feb 2020 #13

I really think it would change the narrative on the M4A issue, people in the real world... cbdo2007 Feb 2020 #34

Then a million more people show up and demand he give them personalized cost charts. ancianita Feb 2020 #35

Then he puts a calculator on his website so they can see a real world side by side. cbdo2007 Feb 2020 #39

Cool. In the meantime, here are 22 summaries of number crunchers who lay out cost savings. ancianita Feb 2020 #43

Here's what I do know. I had an HMO that covered less and had fewer choices I have now on Medicare Autumn Feb 2020 #16

Yes, I'd like to see something like that too, but... doxyluv13 Feb 2020 #18

The answer will be tricky Midnightwalk Feb 2020 #23

Yeah, that calculator just says I would save exactly how much I put in because there cbdo2007 Feb 2020 #29

I think it's simpler Midnightwalk Feb 2020 #56

lol "snarky attempt at a simple answer"...that's a pretty good summary cbdo2007 Feb 2020 #66

Yes! Screw all those poor people who die needlessly. MoonlitKnight Feb 2020 #25

I'll help. But you need to add up your monthly Nanjeanne Feb 2020 #28

Ugh !! You don't believe Sanders will create 20 million jobs ?!!? What ?! / sarc uponit7771 Feb 2020 #33

How does paying for schools save me money? My kids are out of school. Hermit-The-Prog Feb 2020 #42

This will give you an idea. ancianita Feb 2020 #44

Actually not at all. What are my current premiums vs the M4A tax going to be per month? cbdo2007 Feb 2020 #64

Exactly. Why do MFA advocates ignore this simple fact? stopbush Feb 2020 #74

No one CAN answer you until you actually state your premium costs per year. It's also unfair to ancianita Feb 2020 #80

+1, after Sanders creates 20 million jobs then you'll / sarc uponit7771 Feb 2020 #88

It's that working people like that part of their pay that goes for health insurance. brewens Feb 2020 #47

Ask any elderly person on Medicare berni_mccoy Feb 2020 #51

Ask them how much my premiums are now vs how much the tax for M4A will be? cbdo2007 Feb 2020 #59

Tax increases will be far less than the lowest premiums berni_mccoy Feb 2020 #65

This isn't common knowledge or it would be in commercials all over the place... cbdo2007 Feb 2020 #68

It is common knowledge, you just don't want to admit it berni_mccoy Feb 2020 #81

There are theoritical societal savings but these savings are NOT tax revenue Gothmog Feb 2020 #67

Thanks for this good response, I do read and admire Krugman a lot. cbdo2007 Feb 2020 #70

I have an accounting background and I like math Gothmog Feb 2020 #95

Current cost - 540 billion per year equals $60 trillion. MoonlitKnight Feb 2020 #99

CNN-Sanders' agenda: Its cost -- possibly $60 trillion -- would set a peacetime US record Gothmog Feb 2020 #100

Please re-read what you quoted MoonlitKnight Feb 2020 #84

sanders needs $60+ trillion to pay for all of his programs Gothmog Feb 2020 #94

Oh come on MoonlitKnight Feb 2020 #98

You do realize that the govenement has to either borrow or have tax revenues to pay for programs Gothmog Feb 2020 #103

Why has Vermont never adopted this magical plan if it is so great? Gothmog Feb 2020 #105

How soon we forget dpibel Feb 2020 #86

Warren's plan did not ad up but it was closed than sanders plan Gothmog Feb 2020 #96

Sanders Medicare For All Plan w/regards to individual's tax . . . he Nanjeanne Feb 2020 #76

Got it, thanks! cbdo2007 Feb 2020 #82

I don't know why. My guess is that will come when/if he's the nominee - but the info is out there. Nanjeanne Feb 2020 #83

Thx. So take my taxable income, add back in any pre-tax ins premiums... Beartracks Feb 2020 #108

I would have to check the info from his site again on single or family. 4% was family Nanjeanne Feb 2020 #109

I am 71 and on Medicare. I have to carry doc03 Feb 2020 #85

Which is why Medicare For All will help us seniors. We won't have to buy private insurance to cover Nanjeanne Feb 2020 #89

Oh Bernie's Medicare wil pay everything, at what cost? nt doc03 Feb 2020 #93

4% of your income after deducting the first $29,000. Nanjeanne Feb 2020 #97

A Good Start corbettkroehler Feb 2020 #92

It doesn't save me any money Loki Liesmith Feb 2020 #101

ACA cost me money zipplewrath Feb 2020 #102

Canada has a single payer system. guillaumeb Feb 2020 #104

Yes, that would be great. Everyone focuses on tax costs like they exist in a vacuum, or... Beartracks Feb 2020 #107