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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
 

Awsi Dooger

(14,565 posts)
34. A liberal can win in a very favorable situation
Tue Feb 25, 2020, 09:00 PM
Feb 2020

We could have nominated someone more liberal in 1992 or 2008 and won, since Republicans had held the White House for 12 years then 8 years and their favorability rating was low.

The problem is when the situational landscape is totally ignored. That article does it and virtually every article and analyst does it. Somehow there is no comprehension that these outcomes are largely dictated years in advance via the terrain alone. Day to day details and issues essentially mean nothing.

In 2020 we are totally at the mercy of Donald Trump. We cannot defeat him. He can only lose. Trump is in the catbird seat of most favorable situation in American politics as an incumbent whose party has been in power only one term. Benefit of a doubt almost cannot be overstated.

Now 2020 happens to coincide with a unique evolving situation in which the key states we need to rescue are midwestern states with high number of white voters and ideological breakdowns that basically mirror the national percentages. I always test as liberal but I'm not dunce enough to ignore that the nation holds 9% more self-identified conservatives than self-identified liberals. There was a thread here recently with a Sanders supporter asking what fellow Sanders supporters are supposed to do. Well, you are supposed to be intelligent enough to understand that 9% ideological deficit and what it means in practical terms. When we're trying to return states like Wisconsin and Michigan this shouldn't be a complicated puzzle.

I'm not going to let go of the Florida example from 2018. We wanted to believe that the national slant in our favor was so strong that we could shove aside the moderate Gwen Graham in favor of the more exciting and more liberal Andrew Gillum. It may have made us feel good for a couple of months. Then election day showed up, as election days have a habit of showing up. Reality shows up. Enthusiasm meant squat. Turnout meant squat. The white folks showed up and 46% of them matter of factly rejected Andrew Gillum as simply too liberal for the state. This is a considerably more recent and more relevant example than anything from that article. We threw away a major vital governorship against a joke opponent like Ron DeSantis simply because we were stupid enough to believe we could force our ideology on voters who will shut the door without second thought.

If the nation were 9% more liberals than conservatives, we could nominate anyone and everyone and allow the math to dictate. That's what Republicans do. Countless times I warned Chris Bowers about this on MyDD back in 2005 and 2006, that if both sides used their energized online base to dictate nominees through a cleansing process, the only possible outcome was that Republicans would be able to force feed more and more outrageously conservative members into office including the presidency, while we would be stuck trying to emulate them and wondering why it wasn't working.

Bowers dismissed it. I was aware of situational influence while he was stuck in the day to day detail crap. Never try to forecast anything if you are a day to day detail type. You've already flunked the process.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Ouch ibegurpard Feb 2020 #1
That's why I was hesitant to post it Bettie Feb 2020 #3
A moderate won 2 out of the last 3 Presidential elections. Progressive candidates didn't Squinch Feb 2020 #2
Obama wasn't really perceived as a moderate democrattotheend Feb 2020 #4
Yes he was. Squinch Feb 2020 #5
Not in 2008 he wasn't democrattotheend Feb 2020 #12
Suuuure he was. That's why Bernie wanted to primary him, right? Squinch Feb 2020 #20
That was in 2012 democrattotheend Feb 2020 #25
Uh huh. Same guy. Same policies. And Bernie thought he was so lacking in progressive Squinch Feb 2020 #29
Have you read either of Obama's first two books? Ace Rothstein Feb 2020 #40
But apparently not far left enough that he didn't have to fight being primaried by Bernie. Squinch Feb 2020 #41
As I said, he didn't govern that way. Ace Rothstein Feb 2020 #42
HRC ran to the left of BHO in 2008. What I fear are confused pundits & the influence they wield. lapucelle Feb 2020 #32
Hope and Change Bettie Feb 2020 #8
So he was, as the other poster said, in the middle of the Democratic ideological field, but he Squinch Feb 2020 #14
These days, Bernie and Elizabeth are saying, "YES. WE CAN." Laelth Feb 2020 #28
AOC, Rashida Tlaib, and Lauren Underwood have something in common. guillaumeb Feb 2020 #6
Shhh....they dont' exist Bettie Feb 2020 #7
And I have mentioned this in numerous posts here. guillaumeb Feb 2020 #11
Yes. The meme of 3 progressive seats vs. 23 moderate seats. Squinch Feb 2020 #15
Funny how THAT little point was forgotten. oldsoftie Feb 2020 #19
But it's just a meme, doncha know? Squinch Feb 2020 #21
That's 3. Moderates flipped a couple of dozen Repubican seats. Squinch Feb 2020 #9
"Progressive candidates didn't win even among Democrats in the primaries." guillaumeb Feb 2020 #13
Yes. What's your point? That those on the far left, if only freed of the fetters of the Democratic Squinch Feb 2020 #17
The term "far left" is imprecise. guillaumeb Feb 2020 #24
Heaven forfend! I have been imprecise! I have referred to progressives, the acknowledged far left Squinch Feb 2020 #27
And how do you describe yourself? guillaumeb Feb 2020 #36
You tell me. Is there? And what is your point? Squinch Feb 2020 #37
That labels such as moderate, and far left, are meaningless. guillaumeb Feb 2020 #38
So? Squinch Feb 2020 #39
Obama campaigned as a liberal and governed as a moderate. Sympthsical Feb 2020 #26
Welcome to DU. Laelth Feb 2020 #31
IF we're honest about it Bettie Feb 2020 #33
K&R. n/t ms liberty Feb 2020 #10
THIS BS again? Look who won in '18 & who lost, then get back to me about WINNING. oldsoftie Feb 2020 #16
Well, you'll blame him being liberal Bettie Feb 2020 #18
Well, i would if his voters stay away from the polls like they did in '16 oldsoftie Feb 2020 #23
His memory is selective as all fuck... Blue_Tires Feb 2020 #22
Barack Obama was a moderate lapfog_1 Feb 2020 #30
yes he was ibegurpard Feb 2020 #43
A liberal can win in a very favorable situation Awsi Dooger Feb 2020 #34
The moderate Democrats are the only democrats who have won the presidency, ever. Progressive dog Feb 2020 #35
Obama and Clinton ibegurpard Feb 2020 #44
Sure they did, they were reasonable people Progressive dog Feb 2020 #45
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