Democratic Primaries

HarlanPepper

(2,042 posts)

118. You're sort of all over the place.

Wed Feb 26, 2020, 06:52 PM

Feb 2020

IN a response upthread you mentioned there were working class Cubans in parts of Florida and rich Cubans in South Florida. Fine. But that sort of belies your earlier statement that the only people who have ever left Cuba did so out of personal greed. There are people that still leave Cuba, long after Batista took his dirt nap.

So yeah, I'm sorry, but I'm not really able to take you very seriously on this one. I find extreme points of view on subjects that aren't as black or white as you make them to be kind of silly and child like. Cuba is complicated. Our history with Cuba is complicated. It's not the utopia you make it out to be and it's not the hell state many Americans believe it is. I find merit in that point of your argument, but some of your responses in the thread have been kind of out there TBH.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Highlight:

Cuba Has Not Been A Bad Neighbor Or a Threat To the US -- Ever. There Is No Cuban Taint. [View all] ancianita Feb 2020 OP

Shoot, I'm tempted to lie to you just for the sake of a free trip. PETRUS Feb 2020 #1

Do it. I'll happily pay. That's how wrong this whole wall of propaganda about Cuba has been. ancianita Feb 2020 #4

Something else about Cuba... PETRUS Feb 2020 #23

Thank you. I'm not surprised by this at all. ancianita Feb 2020 #27

Thanks for posting this. zentrum Feb 2020 #70

I was also reminded of "Godfather III. maddiemom Feb 2020 #109

Oh right---Good reminder. zentrum Feb 2020 #143

This message was self-deleted by its author BlueTillIDie Feb 2020 #2

Know why? Because they're right wing pro-Batista descendents. And so are a lot of their kids, still. ancianita Feb 2020 #5

That may be true and deplorable, but it does wnylib Feb 2020 #131

Great post w/ good points for discussing. Note that FL Dems now out-register GOP. That's something. ancianita Feb 2020 #135

Florida Dems outnumber Republicans wnylib Feb 2020 #188

I hear you. I know FL's voting habits since John the Pirate Roberts helped overturn the FL Supreme ancianita Feb 2020 #189

Maybe at first Tweedy Feb 2020 #193

THANK YOU! redqueen Feb 2020 #3

Except just that one time when they let the Russians bring their missiles to Cuba to attack the US MaryMagdaline Feb 2020 #6

somehow that keeps getting pushed back Peacetrain Feb 2020 #7

Guess we should hold that against them forever, eh? ancianita Feb 2020 #9

Your assertion: "Or a Threat To the US -- Ever" TwilightZone Feb 2020 #11

You mistake the threat.JFK didn't negotiate with Castro.He negotiated with the real threat, RUSSIA. ancianita Feb 2020 #15

Regardless, Cuba allowed their property to be used as a launch pad. This did pose a threat 33taw Feb 2020 #66

Wrong. They did it because OUR SANCTIONS gave them no trade choices for energy. ancianita Feb 2020 #72

Thank you for you thoughts. Don't tell me to knock it it off. It is rude. 33taw Feb 2020 #84

Your "opinion" is "regardless," and so parrot establishment propaganda. This is a place for ancianita Feb 2020 #89

Yikes, aren't you full of yourself. 33taw Feb 2020 #97

This message was self-deleted by its author HarlanPepper Feb 2020 #106

Is that all I presented? Wow. I better add a lot more in the op. Maybe add photos of both trips. ancianita Feb 2020 #110

Cuba is not a threat. 33taw Feb 2020 #123

That's historicaly delusional.....not even close to true. AncientGeezer Feb 2020 #150

What several sources? How is it delusional, or making up crap, again? ancianita Feb 2020 #166

USSR....for ONE. Hitler invaded USSR partly for the Oil, you know that right? AncientGeezer Feb 2020 #171

Castro wasn't around for the Hitler attack, so what's the Russian parallel to Cuba, again? ancianita Feb 2020 #174

It doesnt matter. Eko Feb 2020 #167

It does matter. They, in fact, weren't a threat. Theirs was a no-choice allowing, not allowing. ancianita Feb 2020 #170

You believe that don't you? That's sad. AncientGeezer Feb 2020 #172

It's not sad that I've read history about Cuba. What's sad is what you think I should believe. ancianita Feb 2020 #175

What's sad is you belive that Castro didn't kill his political enemies AncientGeezer Feb 2020 #178

I don't claim to know EVERY thing. But I know more than taint throwers in the Bernie arena. ancianita Feb 2020 #185

Sure, they couldnt come to us? Eko Feb 2020 #181

Weren't a threat? Seriously? redstateblues Feb 2020 #187

Actually..... paleotn Feb 2020 #113

Not at all. Obama was right to open relations and we need to keep pursuing that route MaryMagdaline Feb 2020 #14

Yes, we should support Obama's opening us up to Cuba. ancianita Feb 2020 #16

Wait...now you're claiming Cuba is some sort of representative democracy? tritsofme Feb 2020 #17

Have you been there? Talked with its people? How do you even know what you're talking about. ancianita Feb 2020 #26

Cuba is a one-party authoritarian state. You may be impressed with their show elections tritsofme Feb 2020 #32

My offer stands for all who think like you. ancianita Feb 2020 #40

I'm old enough to remember hearing the same nonsense about the Soviet Union. tritsofme Feb 2020 #43

I did, too. But Cuba isn't the Soviet Union by any stretch. Its whole history proves you wrong. ancianita Feb 2020 #44

What exactly is the defense of the Cuban government? We taught you to read and write and we gave you MaryMagdaline Feb 2020 #39

Straw man all Cubans and dismiss. Great. ancianita Feb 2020 #41

Moving the goalposts again, eh? LanternWaste Feb 2020 #19

What was my original premise, again? ancianita Feb 2020 #30

If YOU were energy sanctioned by your nearest neighbor for years, you'd go for help. ancianita Feb 2020 #8

Castro wanted Russia to attack the US early on. Not "years" later. Such horseshit. oldsoftie Feb 2020 #103

Link it. Don't start unlinked hostile and aggressive posts. Or you're spouting horseshit. ancianita Feb 2020 #119

How many you want? Its common knowledge among anyone who knows history. oldsoftie Feb 2020 #146

Cool. That somehow convinces us that Russia never tells another country what to say in support ancianita Feb 2020 #148

Yeah, it's not like we trained and outfitted an army to invade and overthrow their government... Hassin Bin Sober Feb 2020 #42

So you disapproved of Obama relaxing restriction on Cuba then? progressoid Feb 2020 #81

If you know your history, you know we started that one Warpy Feb 2020 #111

Balony. H2O Man Feb 2020 #10

Balony to you. ancianita Feb 2020 #12

Perhaps it would H2O Man Feb 2020 #13

Not a fair joke. Cuba's long suffering at our hands is no joking matter. ancianita Feb 2020 #18

Grow up. H2O Man Feb 2020 #20

It's a shame this subthread went sideways. PETRUS Feb 2020 #25

Yes. H2O Man Feb 2020 #62

Get over yourself. ancianita Feb 2020 #28

Impossible. H2O Man Feb 2020 #63

You win. ancianita Feb 2020 #68

You do, too. H2O Man Feb 2020 #76

And here is a Grand Prize! H2O Man Feb 2020 #90

One last thing..... H2O Man Feb 2020 #91

Thanks. Good context re Cuba around Nixon days. ancianita Feb 2020 #108

I haven't shaved H2O Man Feb 2020 #139

Magazines are changing that. My Vanity Fair subscriptions show more beards. So you're cool. ancianita Feb 2020 #141

Thanks so much for this bold and accurate post Cal Carpenter Feb 2020 #21

Jeffrey Dahmer's neighbors didn't have any complaints about him Jose Garcia Feb 2020 #22

Do some reading. The Jeffrey Dahmer parallel is just plain ignorant. ancianita Feb 2020 #29

Wow! So Castro was good and America bad! blue-wave Feb 2020 #24

Wow! So Cuba was bad and America was good! ancianita Feb 2020 #31

Huh? Please don't assume blue-wave Feb 2020 #35

And you know very well that Cuba was good and America was bad. ancianita Feb 2020 #38

Stop putting words in my mouth. blue-wave Feb 2020 #183

So the people who have fled Cuba, is that because they just didn't get it when it comes to Castro? HarlanPepper Feb 2020 #33

They didn't WANT it. They wanted the Batista-Mayer Lansky style capitalism. ancianita Feb 2020 #34

Oh cool. Thanks for clearing that up. HarlanPepper Feb 2020 #36

Yep. Personal greed. ancianita Feb 2020 #78

And those who didn't make it HarlanPepper Feb 2020 #79

That's not the point. They did support getting rid of Batista, and the lawyer and doctor who helped ancianita Feb 2020 #114

You're sort of all over the place. HarlanPepper Feb 2020 #118

So what are the thread rules, again? The personal greed comment was an oversimplified answer ancianita Feb 2020 #124

Warped in the the 1960's MaryMagdaline Feb 2020 #51

Yes, but as I've learned from the OP HarlanPepper Feb 2020 #55

I'm sorry MaryMagdaline Feb 2020 #57

I know, look at all these greedy Batista loving capitalists HarlanPepper Feb 2020 #64

Bless you for this MaryMagdaline Feb 2020 #65

My point about how complicated the subsequent crossovers were. Make your points. Photos ancianita Feb 2020 #128

It was sneaky how they showed up in old clothes and delapidated boats to hide their greed. n/t zackymilly Feb 2020 #157

Stop coming in with the snark. The first wave were Batistas; 2nd & 3rd were their families. ancianita Feb 2020 #116

No, the people who fled were the rich 1% who along with Batista were ripping off ordinary totodeinhere Feb 2020 #168

Excellent op voteearlyvoteoften Feb 2020 #37

thank you for a fantastic post... myohmy2 Feb 2020 #45

Thank you, too. But it was more to bring to light what's good about Cuba than to support Bernie. ancianita Feb 2020 #48

Never threatened!!!!!!!! snowybirdie Feb 2020 #46

I'll repeat, since you didn't get the point the first time. ancianita Feb 2020 #56

Ever read the L. Fletcher Prouty book about JFK? rwsanders Feb 2020 #73

Never read it. But I've read all of Chomsky. Thanks for the book suggestion. ancianita Feb 2020 #75

This isn't your average history book... rwsanders Feb 2020 #195

Thanks. ancianita Feb 2020 #206

Yep. MaryMagdaline Feb 2020 #61

Link it. ancianita Feb 2020 #69

Good neighbors don't threaten nuclear extinction tirebiter Feb 2020 #47

Russia was his audience. Not Cuba. JFK knew who was using who in the Caribbean. ancianita Feb 2020 #50

To a degree tirebiter Feb 2020 #59

After at least one invasion and a hundred assassination attempts from US. You think he might ancianita Feb 2020 #80

The end of the world is a bit disproportionate tirebiter Feb 2020 #94

Cute. ancianita Feb 2020 #96

Excellent post ancianita! Uncle Joe Feb 2020 #49

Thanks, Uncle Joe! ancianita Feb 2020 #52

K&R Newest Reality Feb 2020 #53

If Cuba is so great, why would they let a foreign country run a torture facility on their coast? LonePirate Feb 2020 #54

I didn't say "it's so great." I SAID it's not BAD. Look up the history of Guantanamo. It will show ancianita Feb 2020 #67

I guess you never saw these. Great neighbors! George II Feb 2020 #58

Great Russian threat! And Big Bad Cuba! ancianita Feb 2020 #74

Only thing this map shows ... carlvsam Feb 2020 #162

It's good to see that Eastern Europe has been set free from communism tirebiter Feb 2020 #200

No...but he has read Aspects of the Theory of Syntax. lapucelle Feb 2020 #159

This message was self-deleted by its author chwaliszewski Feb 2020 #60

You nailed it. burrowowl Feb 2020 #107

Thanks for this Bettie Feb 2020 #71

Including all the right wing Cubans down in Florida, not the working class Cubans in Miami & Tampa. ancianita Feb 2020 #77

Also, thank you back for backing normalized relations with our neighbors. ancianita Feb 2020 #83

Isolating Cuba does no one any good Bettie Feb 2020 #121

"...everyone is stuck in a 1960's mindset." myohmy2 Feb 2020 #144

Not now, but "never"?.. Google "The Cuban Missile Crisis" whathehell Feb 2020 #82

So did I. We've come out of that with you playing the "perfect as the enemy of the good" high road ancianita Feb 2020 #85

Huh?...First of all, who is "you"? Does that mean as opposed to."you"? whathehell Feb 2020 #88

You SAID: I lived through it. I answered you that I did, too. Now you wonder if I'm American?? ancianita Feb 2020 #95

Um, yeah whathehell Feb 2020 #99

You want to explain your lived experience? Why you think that one experience is your reason ancianita Feb 2020 #130

Um, no whathehell Feb 2020 #133

Cuba has been hardest on the people there. My brother has visited applegrove Feb 2020 #86

No different or worse from anywhere else in the world. They DO go capitalist. They just expect ancianita Feb 2020 #92

CBC radio did a story on Cuba in the 90s. A doctor was working as a applegrove Feb 2020 #98

But it's pristine. HarlanPepper Feb 2020 #104

And babies were left to die in all the countries we've invaded. I've heard broadcasts like that, too ancianita Feb 2020 #115

Nope. CBC Radio. Not given to propaganda. Canada had a relationship with Cuba back applegrove Feb 2020 #120

How is it then..Fidel died worth $900 MILLION and Cubans are rafting to the US? AncientGeezer Feb 2020 #160

Well said SCantiGOP Feb 2020 #87

THANKS... NEEDED TO BE SAID!! InAbLuEsTaTe Feb 2020 #93

Thank you so much ancianita for this wonderful post. alwaysinasnit Feb 2020 #100

Thank you all back! ancianita Feb 2020 #125

Cuba's people have suffered because of their dictatorial leadership. Not us. oldsoftie Feb 2020 #101

We sponsored the first big dictatorships, sanctioned the last.Save us your blame the victim reaction ancianita Feb 2020 #126

They're victims of their own poor choices. Not my fault. Dictators ruin lives. oldsoftie Feb 2020 #145

Please do some research. roody Feb 2020 #155

Cube has been trading & currently trades with almost every country. YOU do some research. oldsoftie Feb 2020 #163

Only six or seven, not almost every. ancianita Feb 2020 #179

Thanks for the post! burrowowl Feb 2020 #102

Post of the year! BlueWI Feb 2020 #105

I guess we all forgot that Fidel allowed Khrushchev to stage ballistic missiles in Cuba beachbumbob Feb 2020 #112

I was thinking about that too Dem4Life1102 Feb 2020 #122

Know how many missiles we have that can reach our targets in 5 minutes? WE'VE never been a threat? ancianita Feb 2020 #127

I don't think anyone forgot this, based on the fact that BlueWI Feb 2020 #196

then did I mis-read the OP title of "never been a threat"? Is this a truth or a fricken lie? beachbumbob Feb 2020 #203

Did you read the OP BlueWI Feb 2020 #205

Thank you. Wonderful post mountain grammy Feb 2020 #117

So much for being competitive in Fl... BilltheCat Feb 2020 #129

The FL GOP is Miami's Cubans. Up in Tampa, no. They're for Bernie.We can point out how hypocritical ancianita Feb 2020 #132

Thanks for sharing your perspective. David__77 Feb 2020 #134

I agree with you...that piece of dirt called Cuba has never, ever Ferrets are Cool Feb 2020 #136

Don't put words in my mouth. Make your point. ancianita Feb 2020 #137

Thanks for your post! flamingdem Feb 2020 #138

Thank you for your post, too. I'll have to check on the PR population of Miami. ancianita Feb 2020 #140

You're right..it's not taint..it's a putrid stink. AncientGeezer Feb 2020 #142

No YOU'RE right. Hm, what's that smell? ancianita Feb 2020 #147

That's immigration, ....I'm talking about fleeing...but you knew that. AncientGeezer Feb 2020 #149

Wrong again. Batista boys were the dictators. There's no debate.You just can't tell the difference. ancianita Feb 2020 #152

"You say he was genocidal? A murderer?"...I didn't say it...you can't show I said it. AncientGeezer Feb 2020 #158

Fine. There couldn't possibly be distortions of memory or political agendas. ancianita Feb 2020 #164

Well..... AncientGeezer Feb 2020 #202

No idea. Except that security for self and family can be costly, but who knows. He's dead, anyway. ancianita Feb 2020 #207

He got paid $900 million to be his own security? You don't believe that do you? AncientGeezer Feb 2020 #209

I did not say that. Attacking a dead man has nothing to do with Bernie's support of Cuba. ancianita Feb 2020 #210

I grew up in Tampa, and lived there from 61 to 87 ms liberty Feb 2020 #151

Thanks for your input. ancianita Feb 2020 #153

I've been there twice roody Feb 2020 #154

Thank you. ancianita Feb 2020 #156

Fuck Castro Happy Hoosier Feb 2020 #161

He's dead, dude. ancianita Feb 2020 #165

So are Khruschev and Stalin Fuck them too.. Happy Hoosier Feb 2020 #182

Castro lined people up and shot them for criticizing him Tweedy Feb 2020 #169

Nice 20-20 hindsight criticism. The Cubans DID toss Batista. They used the lawyer, Castro, to do it ancianita Feb 2020 #173

Castro executed his friends for criticizing him Tweedy Feb 2020 #192

Did you skip U.S. history? RandySF Feb 2020 #176

That photo was not in any history book I read in h.s., college or anytime after. I read later that ancianita Feb 2020 #177

Then you're old enough to know your OP is false. RandySF Feb 2020 #180

Castro was a commie dictator though. Nt BootinUp Feb 2020 #184

Donnie's a LIVING Russian tool Nazi dictator, tho'. Fuck Donnie who let the Russians in our house. ancianita Feb 2020 #186

So I guess that the criminals and mental health patients that Castro sent over in the boatlift TexasTowelie Feb 2020 #190

The US let them in. David__77 Feb 2020 #197

Of course our government let them in. TexasTowelie Feb 2020 #198

If you can somehow connect all that to Bernie, give it a try. ancianita Feb 2020 #208

I don't need to. TexasTowelie Feb 2020 #211

I know a dozen cuban immigrants EmeraldCoaster Feb 2020 #191

Ditto, but it's not just Cuban Floridians who ForEverGlades Feb 2020 #194

Spot On!! blue-wave Feb 2020 #199

My brother and his wife hand a great two weeks holiday there, and OnDoutside Feb 2020 #201

The Cuban Revolution is a pile of dung. IluvPitties Feb 2020 #204