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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
 

Buzz cook

(2,914 posts)
184. In general I agree with you sentiment.
Mon Apr 8, 2019, 03:44 AM
Apr 2019

Winning is the most important thing. I disagree with your conclusion that Biden is the most likely to beat Trump.

Biden has name recognition and is a favorite of the inside the beltway media. Those are both important points in his favor.
In 2008 Clinton had the greater name recognition and again in 2016. What she lacked was a friendly media.

In 2008 Obama played to the DC villagers and they elected him the anti-Clinton so he was able to divide media opinion enough to get the nomination.
As we know the people hated Bush and by extension the republicans by that time that Dennis Kucinich could have won the presidency.

At this time 20 months from the election name recognition is not as important, the long campaign period will insure that by the time of the convention the nominee will have solid name recognition.

The favor of the villagers is now the prize. Just as the media doomed Clinton's 2008 campaign they did the same to Gore in 2000.
As I said Biden is a media darling, but the media has turned on him in the past and I wouldn't be surprised if they do in the future.

However the media has changed somewhat. they are no longer monolithic with a few Gene Lyons and Molly Ivins thrown in for flavor. There is now a democratic party leaning media, even if it isn't as large as we might like. That media can feed positive narratives into the mainstream no matter who the democratic candidate is.
While Biden is still the favored candidate of the media that is not as strong an advantage as it would have been just four years ago.

One of the things that we've learned over the last few election cycles is turning out the base is paramount to winning elections. Its one of the things conservatives have excelled at for years.
A major part of turning out the base is how attractive the candidate is to activists and young people. Obama had that Sanders has that. I live in a caucus state and we Clinton supporters were swamped by Sanders people. I failed to be a delegate to the county convention for the first time in years.
While I still don't support Sanders for other reasons it can't be said that He can't get people into the voting booths.
I don't think Biden can generate that kind of excitement in the base.

Voter suppression is still with us. It helped kill Gore in 2000, Kerry in 2004 and Clinton in 2016. But it is getting better, we are winning in the courts in North Carolina and elsewhere and ballot measure in Florida. If we can keep that fight up and keep winning that waters down Biden's media advantage as a rising tide lifts all boats.

Centrism isn't as important as it once was. One of the reasons Biden is popular with the media is because he's viewed as a centrist willing to buck his party and vote with the republicans. As I noted he's done that on more than one occasion.
But what is centrist? Elizabeth Warren has made several proposals and all of them poll well with a majority of American voters, both democratic and republican. The same can be said of most other candidates that are called leftist.
Many of the proposals are considered leftist because the overton window as moved shockingly right and would have been mainstream in the 50s, 60s, and 70s.
So Biden's "advantage" of being a centrist is not as strong as it once was.

Remember it was healthcare that gave democrats wins in 2018. That topic cost us the house in 2010 and further losses in 2014, 2016. Now it is close to becoming a third rail. Leftist doesn't mean what it used to.
And where will Biden be in the healthcare debate? Even if he only proposes just fixing a ACA, it will still be a repudiation of not only Obama but also himself.

Biden's advantages as a candidate are not as overarching as the once were. At the same time Trump is becoming less formidable as we watch.
You are right that he or any republican will always have a core of supporters, I put that at the inevitable 25% dead enders plus 10 to 15% reflexive republicans. Trump continues to lose ground with almost every demographic and it will take even greater attempts at voter suppression to keep him viable. I see 2020 as being more like 2008 than 2000.

Finally imho the most important election of our lifetime was 2000 and we lost that. Every failure we've had can be traced back to that one.
I'd also like to remind you that there was another important election in 1932, FDR vs Hoover. An elitist leftist with an annoying wife

I think we face an election where we can afford to nominate the best person for the job. Imo that is Warren and not Biden.

Thank you for taking the time to reply. In 2016 I got used to being jumped on by Sanders supporters and now it seems its Biden supporters turn to put the boots to me. Your reply was a refreshing change.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

I see no difference. LakeArenal Apr 2019 #1
I guess you/we have the 'right' to be offended, elleng Apr 2019 #2
My thought until I thought. Maybe we should make those inclined Hortensis Apr 2019 #110
Especially since Joe is the most qualified both nationally and globally. LakeArenal Apr 2019 #3
I don't think being a former Vice President makes him more qualified pnwmom Apr 2019 #29
Have to agree. plimsoll Apr 2019 #50
He's the most qualified. LakeArenal Apr 2019 #51
From a pure logic perspective. plimsoll Apr 2019 #54
I surely can defend my position. LakeArenal Apr 2019 #67
Good bye. plimsoll Apr 2019 #70
The man was in the Senate longer paleotn Apr 2019 #157
He's qualified no doubt. plimsoll Apr 2019 #165
The world didn't know it would want Obama till he become President. pnwmom Apr 2019 #57
Who said anyone isn't falling in love with the other candidates LakeArenal Apr 2019 #68
I like Inslee. I don't think he has a chance to win. I wouldn't send him money. redstateblues Apr 2019 #79
I'll admit to some parochial attachment. plimsoll Apr 2019 #113
Wow, Inslee as head of the Environmental Protection Agency - yes, he would be great at that! FM123 Apr 2019 #126
I partly disagree. I do think Inslee can win. Qutzupalotl Apr 2019 #141
Between Inslee and Biden? No question... Inslee is more qualified and has no baggage. InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2019 #52
Hey Bernie-Tax returns please. Stop playing the "run out the clock" strategy that has worked for redstateblues Apr 2019 #78
His connections on the international scale. GemDigger Apr 2019 #71
Neither Obama nor Biden had those connections before Obama's Presidency pnwmom Apr 2019 #72
We weren't in turmoil then. We are now. Joe already KNOWS them. GemDigger Apr 2019 #73
Yes, we WERE in turmoil in 2008. We were on the edge of a second worldwide Great Depression. pnwmom Apr 2019 #75
I am not talking the stuff of 2008 I am talking the specific damage tump has done between GemDigger Apr 2019 #84
Biden is NOT the only Democrat the world would welcome. We have several pnwmom Apr 2019 #88
I cannot explain myself any better. GemDigger Apr 2019 #89
What we were not in 2008 was close to the possibility of a nutjob getting us into WW III GemDigger Apr 2019 #85
Obama didn't have foreign connections, but Biden did. nsd Apr 2019 #169
Obama picked Biden to balance the ticket and to get the all-important white-male voters pnwmom Apr 2019 #170
How do you know that? nsd Apr 2019 #172
Because Hillary doesn't engage in inappropriate nuzzling with foreign leaders, for one thing. pnwmom Apr 2019 #174
+1. He's ahead nationally. If we fall into trump trap, shame on us. Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2019 #33
He's just got more name recognition, and reflected glory from Obama. pnwmom Apr 2019 #76
May be. It's all about the numbers. Trump approval Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2019 #83
K&R stonecutter357 Apr 2019 #4
Been married snowybirdie Apr 2019 #5
I have one of those at home too Peacetrain Apr 2019 #48
I'm not so much offended as irritated at the ageism. The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2019 #6
I agree with you completely, TVO. sheshe2 Apr 2019 #12
You have Skidmore Apr 2019 #23
Love you, Skidmore. sheshe2 Apr 2019 #40
I agree with these two posts blm Apr 2019 #31
you should be... handmade34 Apr 2019 #7
There's a different but you are right to be offended. rogue emissary Apr 2019 #8
As a Democrat, I supported a black guy and a woman in the last 3 elections... louis c Apr 2019 #11
and how many "old white men" have you voted for? rogue emissary Apr 2019 #13
Let's see... louis c Apr 2019 #131
I keep having to say this, I agree it's wrong to rule him out on race, age or gender. rogue emissary Apr 2019 #205
no, not in the Democratic primary... louis c Apr 2019 #206
Not a leader BurntPickle Apr 2019 #9
Well, experience matters... louis c Apr 2019 #10
Yes, especially now. Butterflylady Apr 2019 #42
"Anti-integration?" How so? (nt) ehrnst Apr 2019 #179
Here's the Buddhist perspective on why you shouldn't be offended vlyons Apr 2019 #14
First Nations in North America cast that as "Feed the good wolf". Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2019 #20
It is so fitting to be called "First Nations" peacebuzzard Apr 2019 #151
Thanks. Want to read over and over again. Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2019 #74
Nice post eom peacebuzzard Apr 2019 #150
Well done. n/t demmiblue Apr 2019 #204
I'm a but offended too, but ... Odoreida Apr 2019 #15
are you trying to say "all lives matter"? unblock Apr 2019 #16
I'm a 68 year old white guy. Turbineguy Apr 2019 #17
The ageism on DU amazes me. Cousin Dupree Apr 2019 #18
No two prejudices are alike, each has it's own parameters. marylandblue Apr 2019 #38
It's easier to be prejudiced against groups who are seen as powerful Clash City Rocker Apr 2019 #59
I'm sick and tired of RepubliCON white guys running for President. Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2019 #19
I'm Older Than You and I Think Both Biden and Sanders Are WAY too Old DoctorJoJo Apr 2019 #21
I'm, also, older then the OP and will vote for whomever has the D. Tikki Apr 2019 #25
Old people are more likely to die, suddenly. warmfeet Apr 2019 #22
Not just that, but decline can be sudden. And swift. Demit Apr 2019 #135
I see it too. Ageism is destructive.If I were to choose Biden it would be because of his experience. 58Sunliner Apr 2019 #24
It's not that he's old wsbradshaw Apr 2019 #26
You're welcome to be offended...and I don't care if you are. brooklynite Apr 2019 #27
Looking for "Different" Roy Rolling Apr 2019 #94
Kind of rude. And odd since you are supporting an old white man Jakes Progress Apr 2019 #140
Hickenlooper is 67 brooklynite Apr 2019 #167
You have a limited perspective. Jakes Progress Apr 2019 #181
I like Biden. He's my third favorite, after Beto first and Mayor Pete second. ananda Apr 2019 #28
I'm in my early 60's and sellitman Apr 2019 #30
I'm offended so I can't tell you not to be. Progressive dog Apr 2019 #32
Agree... Mike Nelson Apr 2019 #34
another old (68) white woman pamdb Apr 2019 #35
Yet Konrad Adenauer built the future of modern Germany as the oldest delisen Apr 2019 #96
A little older than you and I safeinOhio Apr 2019 #36
Have to say - he's growing on me. dhol82 Apr 2019 #37
I don't blame you. The reality is whoever gets the nomination, we need to back them. Evolve Dammit Apr 2019 #39
Ronald Reagan was our oldest President, at 69, and many of us remember pnwmom Apr 2019 #41
Alzheeimers is just one of a massive constellation loyalsister Apr 2019 #90
I'll tell you why you shouldn't be offended (maybe?). moreland01 Apr 2019 #43
I think some folks are just venting when they say stuff like that. But I get what you are saying. UniteFightBack Apr 2019 #44
That's the kind of false equivalence that one finds in alt-right forums Tarc Apr 2019 #47
It's not a false equivalence. It does not sound nice to say I'm not voting for an old white guy UniteFightBack Apr 2019 #49
"Just as it wouldn't be right to say" Tarc Apr 2019 #102
As a woman who's been a lifelong Democrat, I think you have every right to be offended. highplainsdem Apr 2019 #45
just so long as we can beat prima donnie. i only want somebody who can speak to the morons who went pansypoo53219 Apr 2019 #46
You don't vote for someone because you don't agree on the issues, fine, but because of age, that is still_one Apr 2019 #53
What about nominating Carter? He's eligible. maxsolomon Apr 2019 #55
Here's the facts louis c Apr 2019 #106
No, YOUR reasoning is for "losers". maxsolomon Apr 2019 #197
Obama was elected because the Rpublican Economy melted down louis c Apr 2019 #201
Good point. Gotta add: Diversity *includes* old white guys, too. n/t Beartracks Apr 2019 #56
We currently have an old white guy as President. Are you happy? TeamPooka Apr 2019 #58
Simplistic bullshit. Inkfreak Apr 2019 #99
Let's see if we can win an election for President by insulting and dismissing... louis c Apr 2019 #104
So all old white guys are Trump in your world? SMC22307 Apr 2019 #118
Biden is ... 76 CloudWatcher Apr 2019 #60
I don't think he wants 8 years. He didn't even say he wants 4 years yet. GemDigger Apr 2019 #82
Welcome to Team Sanders Lordquinton Apr 2019 #61
I'm also an old white guy and solid Democrat SCantiGOP Apr 2019 #62
As another old white guy I choose to NOT be offended and see a deeper meaning. bitterross Apr 2019 #63
Take look at pictures of Congress even during the Obama administration: thats why ... marble falls Apr 2019 #64
Please do not forget that Congress is stuffed to the gills with millionaires too... Moostache Apr 2019 #203
Or lawyers, dentists and insurance agents - what I read some time ago make up the ... marble falls Apr 2019 #207
AMEN! Moostache Apr 2019 #208
99% of DUers think Nancy's the greatest leader for Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2019 #65
Thank You for the Reminder! aka-chmeee Apr 2019 #130
I worked for and voted for Sen Shelby and then the Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2019 #137
You are correct sir BlueFlorida Apr 2019 #66
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Apr 2019 #69
I hope all of us will be more careful and polite when discussing these things. ecstatic Apr 2019 #77
I feel like under almost any other circumstance, as an old white guy, hughee99 Apr 2019 #80
Hmmmmmm...... Socal31 Apr 2019 #95
It's not contradictory at all. hughee99 Apr 2019 #139
I wouldn't tell you not to be offended. David__77 Apr 2019 #81
Biden / Harris world wide wally Apr 2019 #86
I think a lot of people who use those words "old white guy" bernie59 Apr 2019 #87
Biden is a bit old for me. WeekiWater Apr 2019 #91
I think throwing away the advantage of incumbency is lunacy. Demit Apr 2019 #136
I think the plan is to promote the VP. So 3 terms Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2019 #189
I know. But a VP getting elected is a higher hurdle than a Prez getting reelected. Demit Apr 2019 #191
Good points. It's not ideal. But, I can envision it Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2019 #192
Well, you're talking about the campaign, but keep in mind the four years that come after. Demit Apr 2019 #195
Well, hope he doesn't strategize too much more..there Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2019 #196
I totally agree with you, Louis. I'm an older white woman. Honeycombe8 Apr 2019 #92
NAIL ON THE HEAD stevesinpa Apr 2019 #93
Maybe because no 'old' Democrat has kicked the Republicans out of the Whitehouse crazytown Apr 2019 #97
Are you talking about Woodrow Wilson? Wednesdays Apr 2019 #144
Yes! Cleveland first time round 47 crazytown Apr 2019 #164
There is no difference. It's bigotry. Inkfreak Apr 2019 #98
Ok, you should not be offended, because you are not yet "old". JustABozoOnThisBus Apr 2019 #100
Amen Gothmog Apr 2019 #101
Because it's the same disingenuous offense Republicans oft use. Amimnoch Apr 2019 #103
Your reasoning will make us lose louis c Apr 2019 #109
I would like a candidate who can reasonably be expected to be Pres for 8 years - not a 4 yr seaglass Apr 2019 #105
How about we just beat Trump and worry about all the other bullshit later. louis c Apr 2019 #108
Well if that isn't the dumbest question I have ever been asked. YOU may be convinced that Biden seaglass Apr 2019 #111
Here's what's dumb... louis c Apr 2019 #134
No need to get nasty. You can believe polls won't change from now to the election if seaglass Apr 2019 #145
Here's what I'm sure of... louis c Apr 2019 #163
Wow, you are just full of unnecessary advice. First, I am from MA so you don't need to school me seaglass Apr 2019 #166
I am very chilled... louis c Apr 2019 #175
So your argument is... BoB? Lancero Apr 2019 #112
I can't. I have no problem with old(er) white men for prez - Inslee 2020 K & R nt Persondem Apr 2019 #107
Because not having a female President qazplm135 Apr 2019 #114
It's not that simple for a job like president IluvPitties Apr 2019 #115
Fuck that qazplm135 Apr 2019 #116
Whoever people on our side think is the best IluvPitties Apr 2019 #120
It's disqualified women qazplm135 Apr 2019 #122
I like all of our candidates, including Harris. IluvPitties Apr 2019 #124
Not about liking qazplm135 Apr 2019 #127
Ridiculous. SMC22307 Apr 2019 #119
So you have a time travel device qazplm135 Apr 2019 #121
I do my research and vote for who I think the best candidate is. SMC22307 Apr 2019 #143
what's news to me qazplm135 Apr 2019 #146
OK, no guys period. What matters most is electing a woman, got it. So consider this hypothetical: Still In Wisconsin Apr 2019 #159
The "old" part is definitely offensive. McCamy Taylor Apr 2019 #117
You sound like my Uncle. OhZone Apr 2019 #123
This old white woman agrees. NellieStarbuck Apr 2019 #125
I can honestly tell you - cab67 Apr 2019 #128
that's bullshit....whomever is saying this against Chakaconcarne Apr 2019 #129
Why Does It Matter So Much to You? yellowwoodII Apr 2019 #132
Are you living under a rock? louis c Apr 2019 #133
It's a thought ending bias and divisive. Aaron Pereira Apr 2019 #138
I hear you. I'm an older white guy too. PatrickforO Apr 2019 #142
Ironic then that the younger generations have and still overwhelmingly support the oldest candidate Uncle Joe Apr 2019 #147
Maybe Sanders inoculated himself by being out of sync with the other old white guys? marylandblue Apr 2019 #155
I believe you are correct marylandblue. Uncle Joe Apr 2019 #156
+1000! Wow. Kind of Blue Apr 2019 #152
I like Pete as well and believe him to be an excellent candidate. Uncle Joe Apr 2019 #153
Hell, go on and be offended PDittie Apr 2019 #148
Nobody here is not going to vote for the nominee, regardless of that person's race or age. Kaleva Apr 2019 #149
But, it's how we talk to swing voters... louis c Apr 2019 #161
I came of age to vote in 1991 JustAnotherGen Apr 2019 #154
Really? WestCoastDem42 Apr 2019 #158
Great strategy.... louis c Apr 2019 #160
Nothing wrong with a white male and/or a woman or POC on the ticket. brush Apr 2019 #162
There is no difference madville Apr 2019 #168
I'm not white and I'm offended by the argument that white guys must be excluded. nsd Apr 2019 #171
#Notalloldwhitemen. Buzz cook Apr 2019 #173
Check you mail box... louis c Apr 2019 #176
And I tried so hard not to upset you Buzz cook Apr 2019 #182
There is only one issue in this election and it's winning. louis c Apr 2019 #183
In general I agree with you sentiment. Buzz cook Apr 2019 #184
FDR and Obama elections had something in common... louis c Apr 2019 #185
The poll at the top of my screen has Harris over Biden by 2 points. Buzz cook Apr 2019 #199
The poll everywhere esle has Biden ahead of Harris by about 20 points louis c Apr 2019 #200
You should NOT be offended. Chemisse Apr 2019 #177
youthful vigor is overcome by age and wisdom, we are about the same age and I kinda chuckle beachbum bob Apr 2019 #178
You see, I was brought up in a political age and I learned the hard way... louis c Apr 2019 #180
Maybe the Democratic base wants someone more like themselves this time... SidDithers Apr 2019 #186
Base voters don't win elections on either side... louis c Apr 2019 #187
The middle 10% will only vote for an old white guy?... SidDithers Apr 2019 #188
No. they will not vote for Sanders and the rtest are relativley unknown to this 10%... louis c Apr 2019 #193
Democrats beating Democrats does not create a mojority... louis c Apr 2019 #194
If you are truly "old," (e.g., as old as Biden will be), then you know ... LAS14 Apr 2019 #190
If you don't see a problem with the fact that we haven't had a woman president after 58 elections, athena Apr 2019 #198
I see now, if the orange man win in '20, l'll know who to blame. demosincebirth Apr 2019 #202
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