Democratic Primaries

MineralMan

(151,392 posts)

57. I can't clear it up. It's too complicated for that.

Mon Apr 8, 2019, 02:02 PM

Apr 2019

For those who are thoughtful political junkies, it's possible to think it through and maybe figure out what Bernie's trying to say. But, most people won't bother. They hear "open borders" and just react, based on whatever they think that means.

We do politics now in bumper sticker phrases. We rarely think about anything long enough to find the nuanced meaning. Personally, I just let it all slide off and take a longer view of things. I don't do bumper stickers. I don't use them, nor do I read them. They're useless.

What matters is the individual definition of "open borders." You have one. I have one. Bernie has one. Trump has one. Everybody's reaction will be based on what they think it means. On such things swing votes or intentions to vote. If Bernie's support changes 10%, that will mean a 1% change in support for today's polling. Beyond that, it's all meaningless at this early stage of the primary race.

So, sorry. I can't explain it in detail. "Open borders" means whatever you and I and everyone else think it means.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Highlight:

BERNIE SANDERS SAYS U.S. CAN'T HAVE 'OPEN BORDERS' BECAUSE POOR PEOPLE WILL COME 'FROM [View all] Uncle Joe Apr 2019 OP

Handing Trump cover for his racist, hate-filled policies is NOT the way, Bernie n/t hlthe2b Apr 2019 #1

Dear God...how could anyone support this? Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #4

It's the "Free Stuff For White People" agenda in action. nt Maven Apr 2019 #18

Makes me want to hurl. Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #27

Disgusting. Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #157

Are you for open borders? Lazy Daisy Apr 2019 #128

I believe in immigration reform. But yes I believe in granting asylum to Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #156

That wasn't my question Lazy Daisy Apr 2019 #164

It is the position of the Democratic Party so far. dogman Apr 2019 #154

No it is not. Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #158

He sure didn't say what you say. dogman Apr 2019 #161

Sickening and muddies the Democratic message, Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #5

And I believe he's doing this to set himself apart from the 'other Democrats' who maybe ya know UniteFightBack Apr 2019 #35

NO Democratic candidate suppports "open borders" brooklynite Apr 2019 #45

So you are in favor of open borders? Voltaire2 Apr 2019 #70

Removing our borders while de-facto eliminating us as nation is not racist nor xenophobic. Uncle Joe Apr 2019 #8

uggh. just ughh. No one is calling for "Open Borders" sans any security/protection/policy hlthe2b Apr 2019 #10

Sanders has voted against a pathway to citizenship. WeekiWater Apr 2019 #12

Do you have a link? Uncle Joe Apr 2019 #21

I find his supporters often know the least about him. WeekiWater Apr 2019 #26

He voted against the immigration bill in 2007. Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #31

Because of that bill's guest worker provisions which in effect promoted slave labor while Uncle Joe Apr 2019 #83

BS voted for the 2013 bill which included a guest worker program. lapucelle Apr 2019 #139

This is why Bernie voted for the 2013 bill Uncle Joe Apr 2019 #141

So then his 2007 vote wasn't a protest against the "slave wages" lapucelle Apr 2019 #143

Apparently you didn't read the post I just made. Uncle Joe Apr 2019 #146

This is shameful. Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #16

"Open borders" does not mean removing the borders awesomerwb1 Apr 2019 #77

For all practical purposes it does as promoted by the Koch brothers. Uncle Joe Apr 2019 #91

It means that our national border policy would be identical to our inter-state border policies. Voltaire2 Apr 2019 #112

This! mcar Apr 2019 #52

There are better ways to articulate an immigration policy mcar Apr 2019 #60

++++++++++++ sheshe2 Apr 2019 #78

No shit. cwydro Apr 2019 #106

LOL. So xenophobia and isolationism are a 'good thing' when they come from Bernie? nt Maven Apr 2019 #2

Excellent quesion. Cha Apr 2019 #133

Wait, are you saying for instance if a candidate WERE to promote a wall or MUCH MUCH Stronger border Eliot Rosewater Apr 2019 #3

He is saying that the party should move right on immigration as an economic issue. marylandblue Apr 2019 #41

Democrats arent addressing the immigration issue at all? Eliot Rosewater Apr 2019 #43

I named 3 specific policies that would restrict immigration marylandblue Apr 2019 #49

And that's moving back left on economic issues. KPN Apr 2019 #102

No its about catering to racists. Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #159

I think he saying he wants to restrict immigration marylandblue Apr 2019 #162

Do you support open borders? Voltaire2 Apr 2019 #71

lol stonecutter357 Apr 2019 #6

Who is it who is calling for "open borders?" dawg day Apr 2019 #7

The Kochs are, it's in the OP and they refer to it as open border. Uncle Joe Apr 2019 #14

So, you think Bernie supporting the concept of preserving "National" identity by closing borders hlthe2b Apr 2019 #25

Bernie is not for closing the borders and I believe you know that, we haven't had open borders Uncle Joe Apr 2019 #28

You seem to be contradicting yourself throughout this thread. Honestly, I don't know what you are hlthe2b Apr 2019 #30

Truth Will Out Me. Apr 2019 #9

No one is calling for open borders. No one. If I am wrong about this IndyOp Apr 2019 #11

First sentence of the link. dogman Apr 2019 #155

Yikes Bernie... Socal31 Apr 2019 #13

He plays to Trump'so base and in effect calls Democrats open border lovers...win win Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #17

The questioner asked about "open borders" and that's what the Kochs have been promoting. Uncle Joe Apr 2019 #24

Joe I like you and the idea of national identity and this crap is not who you are. Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #33

I like you as well Demsrule but national identity is what the Kochs are trying to eliminate with Uncle Joe Apr 2019 #38

National idenity is a racist notion. Imigrants don't hurt our identity...and the idea that we need Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #44

National identity is having a government of "We the People" not "We the Corporations." Uncle Joe Apr 2019 #85

He was asked a question by a member of the audience. Should all the candidates refuse to Autumn Apr 2019 #40

Why? Because he was asked a question at a town hall and being the polite person he is Autumn Apr 2019 #58

I was suggesting he shouldn't entertain the question. Socal31 Apr 2019 #67

On the Statue of Liberty, which greeted Bernie's family when they arrived to America RandySF Apr 2019 #15

Do you support open borders? Voltaire2 Apr 2019 #72

The Kochs Have Professed Concern for Immigrants--But Their Spending Tells a Different Story Uncle Joe Apr 2019 #19

I like the Koch's position on immigration much better than Bernie's. comradebillyboy Apr 2019 #47

Well, the blasters will certainly be blasting Bernie over his position that we shouldn't have open KPN Apr 2019 #20

Thank you for the voice of reason KPN. Uncle Joe Apr 2019 #22

Yeah, and all the clamor some here make about Progressives being a circular firing squad. KPN Apr 2019 #23

Europe has had open borders since 1985. It has made them stronger... TreasonousBastard Apr 2019 #29

Within the EU. Not at all for people outside the EU. Voltaire2 Apr 2019 #73

Last time I flew to Frankfurt or London, I didn't even go through a passport check... TreasonousBastard Apr 2019 #86

Yeah you did. Voltaire2 Apr 2019 #110

I remember the "Passkontrol" in Frankfurt was simply a huge mob waving passports in the air... TreasonousBastard Apr 2019 #114

So again, you went through passport control in Frankfurt. Voltaire2 Apr 2019 #116

"Few Americans Want Open Borders-- Democrats Included" P.S. Including President Obama Uncle Joe Apr 2019 #32

President Obama..2.5 million deported NP👍👍👍 Bernie deported ZERO people...racist xenophobe!11!1! workinclasszero Apr 2019 #64

Except that your premise is completely wrong. MrsCoffee Apr 2019 #75

Josh Earnest acknowledged Obama supports deportation of those who recently entered the US illegally progressoid Apr 2019 #79

Your premise is wrong, statistically it makes no difference how many get deported. If we had Uncle Joe Apr 2019 #88

Hmmm. sheshe2 Apr 2019 #82

Technically speaking, if ALL the guns are pointed at Bernie, the firing squad is not circular marylandblue Apr 2019 #105

Yeah that was my point workinclasszero Apr 2019 #113

So much for my attempt at humor marylandblue Apr 2019 #121

I get it workinclasszero Apr 2019 #122

silly comparison treestar Apr 2019 #163

This is a gross distortion. MrsCoffee Apr 2019 #76

Jay Peak, EB-5 visas. TexasTowelie Apr 2019 #34

+++ sheshe2 Apr 2019 #84

Ex-Jay Peak owner to pay in EB-5 visa fraud case Go Vols Apr 2019 #126

I hope that Bernie can clarify this. themaguffin Apr 2019 #36

He was asked at a town hall why he supports open borders. He doesn't, he clarified that Autumn Apr 2019 #42

Sad that he so quickly attached it to "a lot of poverty in this world." WeekiWater Apr 2019 #59

No ? People try to come to America because they are fleeing the wealth of their homeland? Autumn Apr 2019 #61

This clears up a lot. WeekiWater Apr 2019 #62

Reducing their plight to a Jim Carey gif. sheshe2 Apr 2019 #93

Yeah we know why they flee their homeland, so does Bernie, his family fled the Holocaust. Autumn Apr 2019 #96

Obviously BS does. sheshe2 Apr 2019 #107

The truth is often disturbing. Poverty is one of the main reasons people emigrate from their home Autumn Apr 2019 #111

It is not just about poverty. sheshe2 Apr 2019 #118

I said one of the main factors. Be sorry for the ones turned away and not given an opportunity. nt Autumn Apr 2019 #120

This message was self-deleted by its author namahage Apr 2019 #117

What do you believe is best way for the U.S. to solve those problems and how Uncle Joe Apr 2019 #109

So, Bernie's plan is, like, all nuanced and stuff like that, right? MineralMan Apr 2019 #37

MM, I hope you can spell this out for us. rgbecker Apr 2019 #56

I can't clear it up. It's too complicated for that. MineralMan Apr 2019 #57

Open borders mean no limits on immigration. Voltaire2 Apr 2019 #119

That's one voter who now knows Bernie isn't for open borders. I don't see where Bernie discussed Autumn Apr 2019 #63

Makes sense to me customerserviceguy Apr 2019 #39

Well when my Grandfather came Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #48

When we had them to hand out customerserviceguy Apr 2019 #65

When we had them to hand out customerserviceguy Apr 2019 #66

Nothing has ended. The only reason this even an issue is Bernie. Said it. Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #69

Unless you are very old your grandfather had to pass through immigration. Voltaire2 Apr 2019 #74

He's right. Open borders is pure madness, and a Koch bros. libertarian dream. borgesian Apr 2019 #46

No he is not right. And hopefully this will be a disaster for him. Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #50

Open borders is fringe libertarian stuff, and is not a popular policy position. borgesian Apr 2019 #51

No Democrat has advocated this position. Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #55

Are you serious? workinclasszero Apr 2019 #115

Joe Biden has ethics. He is for comprehensive reform. Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #160

Truthier News: Media Again Plays WHERE's Waldo? with words and phrases. Fred Sandman Apr 2019 #53

I don't agree with the concept of nation-states. It causes world wars. yardwork Apr 2019 #54

More divisive BS we can do it Apr 2019 #68

You would think that Bernie would be smarter than to fall for the two word fascist newspeak... Thomas Hurt Apr 2019 #80

Rep. Steve King praises Bernie's stance on immigration. comradebillyboy Apr 2019 #81

Is there a list of Democrats that are advocating for or support open borders? Autumn Apr 2019 #87

Not that I know of. comradebillyboy Apr 2019 #89

So it's only bad when Bernie is against open borders? nt Autumn Apr 2019 #90

Bernie has the most restrictive immigration policies right now. comradebillyboy Apr 2019 #98

We know why he voted against the 2007 comprehensive immigration reform bill, I agree with him Autumn Apr 2019 #99

That wasn't his position on thde Dobbs show lunamagica Apr 2019 #101

I don't watch Fox. nt Autumn Apr 2019 #103

That was on CNN lunamagica Apr 2019 #123

Boom! sheshe2 Apr 2019 #153

What exact point that Bernie made in this interview do you disagree with? Uncle Joe Apr 2019 #108

"I don't know why we need millions of prople coming into this country" lunamagica Apr 2019 #129

Do you believe near slavery either takes away jobs or has a diminishing effect on workers income? Uncle Joe Apr 2019 #131

You are ignoring what he said on Lou Dobbs. You want to make it sound like he had some concern lunamagica Apr 2019 #132

Gracias for the Reality on BS' stance on immigration, Cha Apr 2019 #136

Bernie has always had sincere concern for the people, that's one of his major strengths, Uncle Joe Apr 2019 #138

I view him very differently, the clip showed a total disregard for immigrants, so we'll diagree lunamagica Apr 2019 #145

If immigration is "so good now" why is virtually every Democratic Candidate for President calling Uncle Joe Apr 2019 #148

Are you seriously asking that? Yes they are all calling for immigration reform with a path lunamagica Apr 2019 #150

So is Bernie. Uncle Joe Apr 2019 #151

Unlike Sanders, none of the others have scape-goated immigrants, so they are believable lunamagica Apr 2019 #152

Thanks for posting BS' record of "Voting against Immigration" Cha Apr 2019 #135

You are welcome, Cha. It is hard to believe that someone buys he is pro-immigration reform after lunamagica Apr 2019 #147

Of course, he does.. but you know Cha Apr 2019 #149

We all know the obvious answer to that question!! InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2019 #127

I saw that on twitter.. very Cha Apr 2019 #134

Remember, this guy voted against immigration reform, and then ran to Dobbs to brag about it lunamagica Apr 2019 #92

From my post# 83 Uncle Joe Apr 2019 #95

GMAB. Just look at the clip from Dobbs. Concern for immigrants was the last thing on his mind lunamagica Apr 2019 #100

GMAB which exact point that Bernie made in this interview do you disagree with? Uncle Joe Apr 2019 #104

Shameful. Cha Apr 2019 #137

Im glad MFM008 Apr 2019 #94

In 1853, the U.S. already had slave labor. Uncle Joe Apr 2019 #97

Another right wing talking point goes by the wayside Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Apr 2019 #124

I agree Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin. Uncle Joe Apr 2019 #125

This message was self-deleted by its author RandySF Apr 2019 #130

That is one of the most blunt and damning headlines I've ever seen in Newsweek. lapucelle Apr 2019 #140

Perhaps that's because all you're focusing on IS the headline. Uncle Joe Apr 2019 #142

I did read it. N/T lapucelle Apr 2019 #144