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PatrickforO

(14,559 posts)
81. Hello! You know, I've thought about that.
Mon Mar 2, 2020, 12:41 PM
Mar 2020

First, I stand corrected on the Kaiser Foundation. You were right and I was wrong. As to what is below, I wanted to give you a thoughtful answer to your statement about me leaving out millionaires in my little diatribe.

When you study economics, or at least when I did, I kind of had a crisis of conscience about capitalism as a system.

But capitalism, like socialism, is a term that is a bit foggy for most people.

I believe the one thing that could solve a whole plethora of problems right away is to force changes in corporate charters so the fiduciary responsibility of corporate officers expands beyond mere shareholder earnings, which is what we have now, to more of a stakeholder approach.

That was our mistake - we allowed this imbalance in the first place. Because if you're the CEO of a publicly held company, and you are a true believer in shareholder primacy, you will be relentless. You will do anything you can get away with to increase earnings - bust the union, drive the wages down, cheapen the benefits, pass more of their costs to workers, compromise on safe working environments, and even gobble up pension funds if you can swing it.

As to the consumers of your product, you want to make them pay as much as the market will bear for as little as possible. To this end you will substitute unhealthy ingredients for healthy ones, decrease the size of the container and charge the same or even claim the product is improved and so raise the price. The Brits call the latter 'shrinkflation.'

And, if you discover that your product is somehow unsafe, you will consult with your management and legal teams to ascertain if it will be less costly to merely pay claims to the people who get injured, or if you should do a recall, which is quite costly. But, you see, the unsafe product happened because of your dilution of the product's quality in the above paragraph.

Lastly, you will foul the environment any time you can get away with it. If you, for example, release fly ash by night, or pump sludge into a river, or illegally dump toxic waste, and aren't forced by government to clean it up, then you can consider that an 'externality' in your 10K report. All is good. Think about the nuclear waste dumped off the coast of Somalia as soon as that poor country didn't have a functioning government. Now those people HAVE to be pirates because all the fish that used to sustain them are gone from their coastal waters.

And the waste. Paper plates. Plastic everything. A disposable society.

This is what capitalism does, but if we expanded fiduciary responsibility of corporate officers around workers, consumers, the environment, and shareholders, then we'd solve a lot of problems. But we'd have to have a strong regulatory presence in governments worldwide, and would have to negotiate international agreements around these things. That concept takes fair trade into account as well.

So now, (at least in my own mind we have established that the doctrine of shareholder primacy is neither efficient nor moral, we can look at your statement on millionaires.

We can blame the Chicago School of Economics for much of the current thinking about shareholder primacy, and also for the 'trickle-down' or supply-side economics model. They are the ones who, in part, came up with 'supply-side' economics, the idea that you can cut taxes, which will stimulate job creation and actually bring in more revenue due to the increased worker earnings.

Well, that isn't true. Funny, on Maher I saw Steve Bannon put out that talking point yet again. But it is the big lie. It has never worked, really, does not work now, and will likely never work. And, as a corollary, it transfers more wealth into the hands of fewer people.

Shareholder primacy is bad enough. But with the 4th industrial revolution which is currently in motion, we have the information industry groups growing exponentially. Think about those kitchen table stories about Steve Jobs, Mark Zuckerberg, Bill Gates, Paul Allen and the rest of the tech billionaires. Romantic, right. Sitting in their garages or basements and inventing ways to massively increase productivity. The world runs on Microsoft. They have something like an 85% market share.

And the way they've set it up to maximize profit also maximizes waste. This waste takes centuries to biodegrade, and much if it can also be toxic. Consider Guiyu, China, where all the old monitors and other parts go to die. China's not taking them any more, but google pictures of that place.

So, does Bill Gates deserve to be a BILLIONAIRE? Does Zuck, or Bezos, or Allen or Adelsen? Do the Mercers?

I mean, I live OK in the sense that I have enough. My family has enough. We struggle sometimes, but we do OK. And like you, I work hard. Every day. But I can't even get my head around what it would be like to be a billionaire. Seems like a lot more to worry about to me. And how would I ever use it? What will it do? Sit around and grow? That's the capitalist mantra. The purpose of wealth is to create more wealth.

Hence my thoughts on billionaires. I've often written on here that I believe they are parasites. They only need two or three suits, just like me. They only need to eat as much as me, and so on. And their money just sits there. In fact, they have salted away over $22 trillion in offshore tax havens as we speak.

Every tax cut, every effort to deregulate or privatize, helps these people take just a little bit more wealth out of circulation, while the rest of us fight over an ever smaller pie.

So, yeah, I believe in a confiscatory tax system that would make billionaires into millionaires, and redistribute wealth to help pay for things that all of us need, that would make our lives materially better. Like health care. Like a postsecondary education system that actually invests in our children and grandchildren (I have three) instead of victimizing them with predatory loans. Et cetera.

As to millionaires, let's be realistic. If you have good ideas, start a company and get to be a millionaire, that's GREAT! I rejoice in your success. I do. In fact, I can use you as a role model, and work as hard as you do, save my money, and so on. I can get ahead, put my hands on that good old American dream!

Anyway, if you look at increased life expectancy, a man will live (on average) to around 79 or 80, and women to 82 or 84. If your retire at 65 or 66 years of age (because you've worked for fifty years or so by this time and you're TIRED of it and want to just spend time with your grand kids, your spouse and your children, maybe putter around, do some writing...), you are gonna get a whopping $2,300 a month from Social Security, but that is TAXED, thanks to Republicans, and you have to pay a premium on Medicare and if you're lucky get supplemental insurance so you can actually afford insulin or whatever other drugs you need to make your life a bit more comfy.

So, bottom line, you'd better have a couple million saved up in a pension account, because you will need it to maintain a decent lifestyle until you go. Anyway, what? One in three of us will end up in a nursing home, and that's about $6 large a month, so you'll blow through those assets at the end anyway and leave this earth naked and broke just like you were when you came here out of your mom's womb.

There it is. No objection to millionaires, but we don't need the billionaires. They are parasites no matter how much value their companies have created - they themselves do not need to hoard that kind of wealth.

If you made it to the end of this, please accept my good wishes. I like the people here on DU.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
Recommended. H2O Man Feb 2020 #1
If by "make an actual healthcare for all plan a real possibility" you mean ehrnst Feb 2020 #2
Post removed Post removed Feb 2020 #22
Facts can be a buzzkill, can't they? ehrnst Feb 2020 #23
Don't give them ideas... Newest Reality Feb 2020 #30
They're way ahead of ya. Pence is heading up the Coronavirus task force flibbitygiblets Feb 2020 #63
I'm waiting for someone to implement it as the Final Solution for the homeless problem. NBachers Feb 2020 #3
No shit. Those are truer words than most people know. n/t PatrickforO Feb 2020 #5
True that I_UndergroundPanther Feb 2020 #57
Yep, and immigrants in detention.... ehrnst Feb 2020 #6
And prisons. irisblue Feb 2020 #18
Certainly Federal prisons, soldierant Feb 2020 #64
Oh god, that is something a Nazi would do Farmer-Rick Feb 2020 #28
Yes, this is how they think! McKim Feb 2020 #38
It's spelled out clearly in the PNAC documents, Eyeball_Kid Feb 2020 #41
and don't forget the immigrant children in cages DBoon Mar 2020 #77
I also recommended this. PatrickforO Feb 2020 #4
You've captured the issue brilliantly ProfessorPlum Feb 2020 #8
+1000 brutus smith Feb 2020 #24
Good description of how capitalism fails again and again. Farmer-Rick Feb 2020 #29
With unrestrained capitalism, that's the deal! dchill Feb 2020 #35
Social Darwinism has no relationship to Darwin or Evolutionary theory. Eyeball_Kid Feb 2020 #43
No doubt. It was the world of the Nazis, too. The gassings began PatrickforO Feb 2020 #65
You left out the millionaires. (nt) ehrnst Feb 2020 #46
Hello! You know, I've thought about that. PatrickforO Mar 2020 #81
PBS aired a special on the Spanish Flu and it is scary beyond belief Hestia Feb 2020 #59
Then the president says, "Nuke 'em. Nuke the bastards". n/t zackymilly Feb 2020 #61
"the people around them who are dying" DBoon Mar 2020 #78
Yes. The story about the guy who got stuck with a big bill just for getting himself tested DanTex Feb 2020 #7
The ACA is far more than a band-aid. It's real, and it actually got people insurance. ehrnst Feb 2020 #50
Just the vast majority of industrialized nations don't use single payer to achieve UHC ehrnst Feb 2020 #67
The focus on the wrong things. bluesxtreme Feb 2020 #9
Same. I'm lucky in my insurance ProfessorPlum Feb 2020 #11
If you are talking about a country's ability to manage Coronavirus as an example, it doesn't add up. beastie boy Feb 2020 #10
Right. PoindexterOglethorpe Feb 2020 #49
Ah, but ..... paleotn Feb 2020 #53
I would rather stick with Canada's system as well. But that was not my point. beastie boy Feb 2020 #58
The original premis was that the USA healthcare system would Blue_true Feb 2020 #66
Mike Pence will pray for us IronLionZion Feb 2020 #12
Pence the Patsy will kiss Trumps hind end at all costs. MakeAmericaLoveAgain Feb 2020 #42
Yep, and he can take his tots and pears.... paleotn Feb 2020 #54
I thought Bernie supporters don't care if he manages to get anything done... Moderateguy Feb 2020 #13
This post makes zero sense ProfessorPlum Feb 2020 #14
That is accurate. No Sanders supporters are flippant about Sander's policy priorities nt ramen Feb 2020 #17
Yeah, supporters like his policies but don't want them implemented Farmer-Rick Feb 2020 #31
That sounded Bloombergian. dchill Feb 2020 #36
it would be best to honestly say that Trump won. SleeplessinSoCal Feb 2020 #15
It's so true ProfessorPlum Feb 2020 #19
Get ready for the "even if we had MFA right now, it wouldn't do X to stop the Coronavirus" stopbush Feb 2020 #16
Even if MFA had been voted into law in 2017, it would not be in place. ehrnst Feb 2020 #21
Conspiracy, or not? Traildogbob Feb 2020 #20
"Tell me this, have you EVER seen trumps and GOP project exactly what they do? " brutus smith Feb 2020 #25
Your idea should be seriously considered. McKim Feb 2020 #39
Our government, meaning the United States government, did no such thing. Jedi Guy Mar 2020 #70
My mistake Traildogbob Mar 2020 #71
Imo, shitty, unjustifed attitude and ignorant one also. Hortensis Feb 2020 #26
Wow, that's not the US healthcare system I see Farmer-Rick Feb 2020 #34
Not a realistic picture of our healthcare system. It is not what Hortensis Feb 2020 #44
Your antidotal experience is not reality. forthemiddle Mar 2020 #69
Don't you know? All you have to do is ask the church for help and they will be right there. Ferrets are Cool Feb 2020 #27
Edgar Allan Poe Toorich Feb 2020 #32
no wonder he's hoping that the virus miraculously disappears ProfessorPlum Feb 2020 #33
Yeah, he is a prime candidate to get complications and die from the virus Farmer-Rick Feb 2020 #37
These bastards sent this to California, Oregon and Washington State MakeAmericaLoveAgain Feb 2020 #40
Seems pretty deliberate to me also. Texin Feb 2020 #51
They dropped these people with possible Coronavirus out West! Payback for Impeachment? MakeAmericaLoveAgain Feb 2020 #55
Suffering through the idiot's press conference with "bobble-head pence" actively breathing ... Hulk Feb 2020 #45
Actively breathing? Pence? Warpy Feb 2020 #48
That is exactly right Warpy Feb 2020 #47
Well said. NT warmfeet Feb 2020 #52
I hope I don't die before I_UndergroundPanther Feb 2020 #56
The Chinese did a great job Progressive dog Feb 2020 #60
The last part of Bill Maher last night was good... BigmanPigman Feb 2020 #62
K&R mvd Mar 2020 #68
+1000 ProfessorPlum Mar 2020 #73
Our healthcare system is in shambles and I hope to god we get a M4A in place Vivienne235729 Mar 2020 #72
and yet, M4A is enormously popular ProfessorPlum Mar 2020 #74
It is NOT enormously popular w the majority of Republicans or independents. Vivienne235729 Mar 2020 #75
this poll is older ProfessorPlum Mar 2020 #79
I don't believe that poll. I believe in what I see. Middle and right leaning Vivienne235729 Mar 2020 #82
because fear so often drives us to make the right decision. ProfessorPlum Mar 2020 #83
It's not fear. But I know you have a your talking points you gotta stick to. Got it. Vivienne235729 Mar 2020 #84
We already pay twice as much as it would cost for a single payer healthcare plan ProfessorPlum Mar 2020 #80
The ACA was a huge movement forward treestar Mar 2020 #76
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