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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe driving force behind the anti-abortion movement is the Catholic Church
Too much energy is being spent criticizing Evangelical Protestants.
The anti-abortion movement originated under the auspices of the Catholic Church with the creation of the National Right to Life Committee under the Family Life Bureau of the National Conference of Catholic Bishops. Many of the early figures in the movement were Catholic women. It was not primarily male, except, of course, the Catholic clergy.
A good part of the Reagan Revolution was the shifting of northern working class Catholics out of the Democratic Party to the Republican Party.
The objective of the Catholic movement was to pass a "Human Life Amendment" establishing fetal personhood in order to overturn Roe v. Wade. I believe that is still the objective, but rather than by amendment through a Supreme Court decision.
Six of the Supreme Court justices are Catholic: Roberts, Thomas, Alito, Kavanaugh and Barrett all being conservative Catholics and Sotomayor the lone liberal Catholic. This is a result of a concerted effort by Catholic organizations to groom judges for the Federal bench and to promote them to the Supreme Court.
The real danger to abortion rights comes from the Catholic Church, not from Evangelical Protestants, of whom there are none on the Supreme Court.
See also, for example, "The Politics of Abortion and the Rise of the New Right" for a historical perspective.
https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/210603225.pdf
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CurtEastPoint
(20,054 posts)Klaralven
(7,510 posts)If you want to know what is going on, look for the money bags behind the puppet show.
Budi
(15,325 posts)Any religion with an exclusive patriarchial heirachy whose ideology demands suppressive roles & duties of women, while growing wealth & influence for political gain is at fault.
As Not all Catholics adhere to the hard core standards of Right to Lifers, I'm giving the benefit of doubt that not all Evangelicals are as frighteningly cultist in their practices as what I witness.
I doubt it was the Catholic churches in Tx that had the most political influence on the demise of Roe.
I'm betting the big old Mega Churches in Tx will be praising God right there alongside the Catholic Churches on Sunday morning.
Goodheart
(5,760 posts)
treestar
(82,383 posts)It goes back further to when there was so little understanding that "quickening" was all people understood.
I was raised in the Catholic Church. My family were solidly Democratic until Roe v. Wade. The older generation of my family is one-issue obsessed. It's hard to understand why other people's pregnancies are so much more important to them than their own economic interests.
Elessar Zappa
(16,385 posts)but in my admittedly anecdotal experience evangelical Protestants are much more active in anti-choice activities. Many Catholics are liberal and don’t follow Church teachings. In fact, I believe Biden actually won the Catholic vote.
Budi
(15,325 posts)The Pope said flat out NO. But every woman in my mom's Catholic ladies circle rejoiced & quietly began controlling her own maternal destiny!
🙂
Mariana
(15,629 posts)
malaise
(296,822 posts)Then examine their history of abuse of the unwanted children by their clergy.
They need victims to perpetuate their child abuse.
mopinko
(73,792 posts)sold the babies and enslaved the mothers in the laundries.
as bad as the catholic church here is, i'm so glad the irish church is an ocean and half a continent away from me and mine.
chia
(2,823 posts)malaise
(296,822 posts)For the record I was brought up catholic - my mother was well loved by them.
You couldn't pay me to be anywhere near any of them.
chia
(2,823 posts)Catholic in name only, apolitical, or liberal/progressive, or moderate, or conservative... they aren't looking for their next child-abuse victim. That rhetoric aimed at the whole is better aimed at an individual who deserves it. The church has a lot of terrible baggage, no doubt, and I don't deny it. But the vast majority of American Catholics (don't know how many of us there are) are certainly not into the kind of "popery" that would want to see the Pope have any input into American government as another "holy Roman empire." That's just so over the top.
stopdiggin
(15,539 posts)to be polite. Even if you despise the Church.
blm
(114,693 posts)for this thread.
Protecting Republican powermongers and the vast majority of evangelicals who cleverly manipulated this into a Catholics are to blame scenario. There is only one benefit to pressing this case and that is division.
Biden is Catholic. There is a strong antiBiden push that has formed and some of the perpetrators try to entrap him using his religious affiliation as an opportunity to further any divide in the left.
chia
(2,823 posts)Klaralven
(7,510 posts)First, it is a bipartisan caucus only because a single Democratic Rep Henry Cuellar from Texas is a member.
Of the four co-chairs, Smith of NJ, Fischbach of MN, and Harris of MD are Roman Catholic. Cammack of FL is unspecified Protestant, so she might be an evangelical.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_affiliation_in_the_United_States_House_of_Representatives
I haven't checked them all, or done the detailed statistics, but members from the southern states tend to be Baptists and members from northern states tend to be Catholic.
For example, Joyce, Kelly, and Reschenthaler of PA are all Catholic.
Kingofalldems
(40,325 posts)JohnSJ
(98,883 posts)malaise
(296,822 posts)in a flash.
These people are about greed and power - religion is merely their guise.
JohnSJ
(98,883 posts)malaise
(296,822 posts)living under their rules
Mariana
(15,629 posts)This should come as no surprise to anyone. They "interpret" the Bible to mean whatever they want it to say, and they do the same with the Constitution.
chia
(2,823 posts)I don't know if that's coming from a place of ignorance or hate, but it's way off base.
Mariana
(15,629 posts)demand that the Church STOP its constant interference in political matters, and refuse to contribute any money or time to the Church until that happens.
I'm not holding my breath.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Influence voters. And voters are free to think for themselves.
stopdiggin
(15,539 posts)the Catholic Church (and believe me, I am no fan) have been much less meddlesome in the affairs of politics over the last 40 years - than many of the Protestant denominations that have gone straight on far right, and quite blatantly political.
Mariana
(15,629 posts)but the Church works just as fervently to deprive women and LGBTQ people of their rights all over the world.
stopdiggin
(15,539 posts)and I'd be quite happy to see the institution collapse and die (if we could all get so lucky). My point was more toward the OP - and where the real energy and push for radical anti-choice politics and movement is today. IMO - it's really kind of misleading to put the Church as the driving force and at the head of the spear. In 2021.
Klaralven
(7,510 posts)...
It turns out that originalism’s real utility is its transactional value as a vehicle for other legal principles. The deeper structure of constitutional jurisprudence is the pervasive and foundational but largely unacknowledged influence of Catholic natural law moral philosophy. Barrett represents more than simply the latest link in the chain of custody for originalist jurisprudence that extends from her mentor, and one of originalism’s founding fathers, former Justice Antonin Scalia, to the present day. As a Catholic and an intellectual descendant of decades of Catholic influence on conservative legal circles, she also represents the alarming future of the conservative legal project.
Conversations on religious influences in American public life typically have focused on white evangelical Protestant support for Donald Trump and the Christian nationalist wing of the Republican Party. However, the rise of American conservatism is actually a 50-year saga of Catholic intellectual and theological penetration of the halls of power.
By some measures, Catholicism has flexibly accommodated itself to the shifting demographic and cultural realities of our time. Pope Francis is the first non-European Pope since the eighth century and, while by no means as radical as his opponents claim, he has worked diligently to promote the Church’s mission globally and to shift the focus of the Church to the existential challenges the planet now faces. On January 20, Joe Biden also was sworn in as the second Roman Catholic American president.
It may thus seem surprising that Catholicism, despite its waning moral and spiritual credibility, cratering populations of priests, and shrinking appeal to younger white Americans, is today the linchpin of culture-war conservatism in the United States. The underlying organizational and intellectual impetus for this influence derives from Thomist Catholic perspectives—on natural law, in particular—that have achieved resurgence in the last 50 years and have infused conservative foundations and think tanks alongside vast amounts of donor money.
https://newrepublic.com/article/161162/originalism-dead-long-live-catholic-natural-law
hedda_foil
(16,994 posts)Its long. but revelatory. A so!Italy a must read!
chia
(2,823 posts)Klaralven
(7,510 posts)hedda_foil
(16,994 posts)
msfiddlestix
(8,179 posts)should all have a special place in Hell, if it actually existed.
let me rephrase, all three of the leading Religious branches have sown evil and destruction n my opinion.
At least the leadership who governs their beliefs.
harumph
(3,320 posts)While it is true that the Supreme Court is weighted in favor of conservative Catholics, that is only because
putting conservatives on the Court with Liberty University degrees wouldn't pass muster (at least not yet).
IOW, if you want someone who is extremely conservative on the wedge issues, an ideologue - yet has impressive credentials,
you're pretty much stuck with Catholics, in lieu of equally crazy southern evangelicals with no long term track record
of scholarship.
But evangelicals control right wing radio and the gun culture. So, I wouldn't say TOO much energy is expended on criticizing them - there's room for everyone in the barrel.
Klaralven
(7,510 posts)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_politics_in_the_United_States#Labor_union_movement
Freddie
(10,120 posts)The priest-child molestation scandal seems to have had one good effect. Absolutely no offense intended.
Since the 1800’s my medium-sized town (Philly exurbs) has had a Catholic Church in town. Landlocked. So about 20 years ago they decided to build a new church on a huge parcel a bit out of town. (Which meant that the poor and elderly who lived in town could no longer walk to church, but what did they care.) Gorgeous place. All the bells and whistles. Complete with all the little crosses on the lawn to commemorate the “lives lost” a couple times a year.
For the past 10 years, attendance and membership has been dropping rapidly. Way more funerals than baptisms. If people are asked why they stopped going to Mass, they usually say the child molestation issue was the final straw.
llmart
(17,650 posts)Starting with people leaving the church in droves. Also, the largest Catholic church near me does the same thing with putting the little white crosses on their vast front lawn right up to the street so every car passing has to look at it. They probably make the little children go out there and put the crosses in the ground, though I've never really seen it being done. It just appears overnight several times a year. Creepy as hell. One time I felt like walking into the church and asking a priest if every cross stands for each child that was molested by a priest.
lark
(26,086 posts)Don't belittle the crazy rw Evangelicals - a lot of the militia folks come from that environment from what they say.
WhiskeyGrinder
(27,074 posts)the population.
sarisataka
(22,710 posts)Resulted in placing Catholics in high positions of Congress or even the President? They would take orders directly from the Pope. We would be the Vatican States of America.
We must be vigilant against such a nightmare scenario.
chia
(2,823 posts)
niyad
(133,016 posts)Ilsa
(64,429 posts)Klaralven
(7,510 posts)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amy_Coney_Barrett#Personal_life
mnhtnbb
(33,435 posts)
LeftInTX
(34,545 posts)Last edited Sat Sep 4, 2021, 11:01 AM - Edit history (1)
Greg Abbott is a Catholic, (which is embarrassing)
Catholics are pro-life, but the doctrine is pro-life cradle to grave....
So, they support:
Funds/support for single parents
Funds/support for struggling families
Affordable health care
Common sense gun legislation* https://www.catholicnews.com/rising-gun-violence-amid-pandemic-points-up-bishops-call-for-commonsense-gun-laws/
Mask mandates
Anti-death penalty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_capital_punishment
Elder care
Keeping sick people alive too long (grhhhh)
*within reason...they support hunting and cases of self defense, but don't support needless arming...
They aren't into this "freedom and liberty" stuff
What happened was Ronnie Raygun "married" the Evangelicals and Catholics and created a political monster.
Reagan approached Jerry Falwell and asked him to become pro-life. Falwell replied, "Isn't that a Catholic thing?"
Reagan told him that they could become politically powerful if they did (Evangelicals were politically backwater at the time)
And so it began
Unfortunately, many of the "pro-life" Catholics in the US are not pro-life cradle to grave. They get obsessed over abortion and turn a blind eye to the death penalty, health care, and social welfare issues.
Prior to Reagan, they lobbied to overturn Roe V Wade as opposed to electing "pro-life" politicians. They pushed the Hyde Amendment, which many Democrats in congress supported. The Hyde Amendment was passed in 1976 on September 30 by the House of Representatives with a 312–93.
An analysis of the capture of the Republican party and the national agenda from the late 1970s into the 1990s by a coalition of political and religious conservatives. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8274866/
By 1989, the Supreme Court had four Reagan appointees. The Webster decision gave states the right to restrict abortion.
Klaralven
(7,510 posts)Fact sheet by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops Committee on Pro-Life Activities
The Catechism of the Catholic Church states: "Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law" (No. 2271).
...
In 1827, with the discovery of the human ovum, the mistaken biology of Aristotle was discredited. Scientists increasingly understood that the union of sperm and egg at conception produces a new living being that is distinct from both mother and father. Modern genetics demonstrated that this individual is, at the outset, distinctively human, with the inherent and active potential to mature into a human fetus, infant, child and adult. From 1869 onward the obsolete distinction between the "ensouled" and "unensouled" fetus was permanently removed from canon law on abortion.
Secular laws against abortion were being reformed at the same time and in the same way, based on secular medical experts' realization that "no other doctrine appears to be consonant with reason or physiology but that which admits the embryo to possess vitality from the very moment of conception" (American Medical Association, Report on Criminal Abortion, 1871).
Thus modern science has not changed the Church's constant teaching against abortion, but has underscored how important and reasonable it is, by confirming that the life of each individual of the human species begins with the earliest embryo.
Given the scientific fact that a human life begins at conception, the only moral norm needed to understand the Church's opposition to abortion is the principle that each and every human life has inherent dignity, and thus must be treated with the respect due to a human person. This is the foundation for the Church's social doctrine, including its teachings on war, the use of capital punishment, euthanasia, health care, poverty and immigration. Conversely, to claim that some live human beings do not deserve respect or should not be treated as "persons" (based on changeable factors such as age, condition, location, or lack of mental or physical abilities) is to deny the very idea of inherent human rights. Such a claim undermines respect for the lives of many vulnerable people before and after birth.
https://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignity/abortion/respect-for-unborn-human-life
mopinko
(73,792 posts)it's the catholic church that has been pulling the strings here for a looong time.
the knights of columbus had a big meeting hall in my hometown. it had a huge sign out front back in the 70's. that sign they all used, w a baby and a graph of a heartbeat.
tho my friends and i threw paint balloons at it on the regular, it was still there some 20 years later, which is the last time i went by there. building has likely been sold/demolished by now.
the rank and file of american catholics might be pro-choice. but the clergy and the powerful men attached to it are absolutely the problem.
not that i expect the church to act like a democracy, but if you are gonna get out there and lobby a democratic govt based on how many people are behind you, they should actually agree w you.
blm
(114,693 posts)are the driving force behind all of it.
DenaliDemocrat
(1,786 posts)Of evangelical religion that penetrated the Catholic Church. She’s more or less an evangelical in Catholic clothing. There is nothing traditional about her Catholicism
LeftInTX
(34,545 posts)I will never forget when I decided to go to a "Life in the Spirit" seminar or retreat at my local church. Saw it in the church bulletin and decided it would be a nice way to spend a quiet Saturday. I imagined a quiet, meditative prayerful day.
Holy cow. It was anything but..God gosh...I walk in and right away they are speaking in tongue. WTF?? I had never seen anyone speak in tongues...
And this the Catholic Church and I'm Armenian. This was sooo far removed from anything I had ever learned. I had heard about the tongue thing and as far as I was concerned, it was part of the snake handling group...
This was in the early 90s...
And it seemed, I could not escape the charismatics after that....
They were everywhere...
albacore
(2,747 posts).... use birth control and have abortions at roughly the same rate as other women. But we know this isn't really about abortion...it's about control of women by certain men.
And it's NOT "pro-life"....it's "pro-forced-birth".
Birth control:
"The percentage of women who have ever used a contraceptive method other than natural family planning is nearly the same across different religions.
99.6% of women with no religious affiliation have done so;
99.0% of Catholics;
99.4% of mainline Protestants;
99.3% of evangelical Protestants; and
95.7% of people with other religious affiliations.
Abortion:
"...research has consistently shown that the majority of people who obtain an abortion have a religious affiliation."
17% of abortion patients identified as mainline Protestant;
13% as evangelical Protestant;
24% as Catholic;
38% reported no religious affiliation; and
8% reported some other affiliation.
https://www.guttmacher.org/article/2020/10/people-all-religions-use-birth-control-and-have-abortions?fbclid=IwAR0bt44hrwrTZZwn2mqChTe8ii9Va_OJiWEMMetPdP7yNTL5ETrtVHmAf-I
kcr
(15,522 posts)At least you're honest about your agenda, here. How's the dewormer campaign going?
Klaralven
(7,510 posts)
Dawson Leery
(19,570 posts)There are many respectable Catholic schools. There is not one respectable Evangelical School.
Most born again law schools do not have accreditation.
hamsterjill
(17,650 posts)Who would gladly enjoy a woman rotting in prison who tried to have an abortion.
There’s plenty of blame to spread around here. The real issue is that these different religious groups join forces on the issue of choice, and rich Republicans who want the fiscal conservatism from Republicans in power USE the religious idiots to vote in line with them and put crazies in power.
If these religious groups were asked to agree on religious principles, you’d see all hell break loose. A Baptist does not think a Catholic is going to heaven generally. This “non denominational” crap is just that. Crap. Because there would be little agreement if it got down to doctrine.
stopdiggin
(15,539 posts)With respect ..
-----
-----Azathoth
(4,677 posts)Even smarter anti-abortion Evangelicals will admit that all the heavy intellectual work of the movement -- the philosophy, theology, legal strategizing -- was done by educated Catholics while the Protestant Right were still busy waving snakes in revival tents.
On the other hand, the Evangelicals are overwhelmingly the voting and activism arm of the movement. Without them, the movement has no political power.
moondust
(21,306 posts)has long wondered if the old Bishops of Rome a few decades ago noticed the development of safe abortion and feared it might catch on and start to deplete their audiences and...revenues.
Anyone needing more evidence of the connection between religion and wealth only need look at the "prosperity gospel" of Joel Osteen, who lives in a mansion and reportedly has a net worth of over $50 million.
