Here's the thing, guys..........

[634-5789]

[secondwind]

1. How true! Excellent post, thank you!

[Freddie]

2. And they don't care

We’re just livestock now.

[area51]

9. +1 n/t

[Novara]

3. That is fucking it, man.

I will use the argument that the government can't force you to donate blood, bone marrow or organs and even needs your permission to harvest anything usable from your body when you're dead.

[bucolic_frolic]

4. Rev up the lawsuits for slavery, kidnapping, unlawful detention, abuse

We need good lawyers.

[2naSalit]

5. How else are they going to...

Force us back into slavery?

[Farmer-Rick]

6. Yup

Taking away a person's bodily autonomy is next to slavery. Forced birth turns women back into chattle.

The ONLY argument the Supremely Religiously Court can make against abortion is a Christian religious one. My family is Not Christian but we are forced to give up our rights because of an imaginary sky Daddy we don't even think exists.

The Christians seem to imagine their sky Daddy in the clouds would object to women making decisions about their own pregnancies. What a very Taliban like thing to force onto non believers. What next? Are they going to start witch burning? Outlaw female education? Force polygamy on our daughters?

[Hugin]

11. Alito needs to retire...

And spend some serious quality time with a licensed psychiatrist working through his religiously inspired mommy problems.

[lefthandedskyhook]

27. Fat chance

This delusional freak used ridiculous dark age witch hunter claims as the foundation for his attack on all our citizens in his desire to "put women back in their place" (paraphrase) as his insane thoughts about religion demand. Do you think such a zealot will ever retire? He is also much harder to impeach than Thomas.

Lets hope J6 hearings can at least eventually take Thomas out for treason which several of these authoritarian ideologues have undoubtedly been involved in. Thomas should have never been confirmed due to his obvious sexual assault of Anita Hill; we can't undo that, but Ginni has made his impeachment mandatory. If you think he did not support her treason and commit it with her you are sorely mistaken. The proof is there to investigate

Kavanaugh, serial rapist - Put him on trial for his crimes. find a way around his statute of limitations shield... it is just a loophole for real criminals like him

Gorsuch is like toothpaste that came out of a tube of feces. His appointment was unethical, anti-American, and remains unacceptable for his life. His votes will always be underhanded

Barrett is a product of more McConnell corruption and deceit. Double standard? She buys the fundamentalist tripe caused by the tragic injection of Roman patriarchal tradition into christianity... blech!

They ALL lied to congress... big deal, right? Do we want to have a country any more?

[Unwind Your Mind]

31. And, I still want to know why Kennedy retired so suddenly nt

[Hugin]

33. +1

You and I both.

[Evolve Dammit]

34. A deal was struck.

[SergeStorms]

53. You bet it was.

More underhanded bullshit by reich-wing zealots.

[Hugin]

32. *sigh* I have a dream...

Anyway, the common factor in all of those equations is not TFG. It's Moscow Mitch. He more than anyone is responsible for what is tearing at our national fabric.

But, there's little I as a voter can do about him.

[multigraincracker]

12. It's not even a Christian argument.

A case for abortion can be made using their Bible. It clearly states that life begins with the first breath.

[Evolve Dammit]

36. There you go. Chapter and verse? Should be a major point.

[Act_of_Reparation]

37. It has been.

For years.

The problem is religion is more than what the Bible says. Christianity is defined by its adherents, not what's in the book.

[Evolve Dammit]

39. Can you direct me to the actual text in the bible?

[Act_of_Reparation]

41. I do not know the passage they are referring to.

People have made the argument that the passage in Genesis describing how God gave life to Adam (by breathing into his nostrils) is "proof" life begins at first breath.

But this is illustrative of the issue. The Bible doesn't actually seem to say where human life begins. Both conservative and liberal Christians interpret the Bible to support whatever their beliefs on the issue happen to be. I don't think that any amount of Bible quoting is likely to change their minds.

Also, I should hasten to point out, we shouldn't really care what a book written by primitive goat herders has to say about where life begins.

[Evolve Dammit]

50. And translated by drunken monks who I'm sure never made any mistakes or added/deleted?

[Act_of_Reparation]

52. A great game of telephone spanning some 3,000 years.

No doubt information was lost (or gained) along the way.

All the more reason this stuff should be kept as far away from politics as possible.

[Brenda]

13. And what is the end game for Amy Barrett?

It seems they always have exceptions for their female woman-haters like Phyllis Schlafly back in the day. Those gals can have positions of power and wealth and autonomy in private of course.

It is exactly like slavery when a person or government can control my body and determine my biological destiny over my wishes.

[The Jungle 1]

7. Outlaw masturbation. Sperm are a life form.

Sperm is a mobile carbon-based life form. It is a living organism with as much as a five day lifespan.
Cameras in every bathroom and Police escorts. This will be hands on police work if you will.
STOP THE KILLING.
The SC must address the legality of men and their constant habit of ending life.
The world is laughing at us again.

[Lucky Luciano]

26. Orthodox Jews outlaw masturbation as it wastes "seed."

[SouthernDem4ever]

42. why don't they freeze it then?

waste not want not.

[Totally Tunsie]

47. They're going to need a bigger freezer!

[Lucky Luciano]

48. LOL, I guess they can take it up with their rabbis!

Of course, there were no freezers back in the day!

[Hugin]

8. What gets me about these retrograde decisions is the majority of the people making them...

Are male. When it could be reasonably argued they don’t have standing

[Kablooie]

10. Except to appease someone else's Christian beliefs.

Fundamentalist Christian beliefs are being weaponized to override any and all rights a person may have in the future. Your beliefs will be considered invalid while their beliefs will be forced on everyone. That’s where we are heading.

[Lucky Luciano]

14. Trumpers love this argument so they can push back on vaccinations.

My body, my choice and all…e even if vaccination may save other lives.

[OneGrassRoot]

16. I was thinking the same thing...

but people aren't forced to get vaccinated -- they simply potentially suffer consequences if they don't - travel, what businesses they can frequent, school restrictions and so forth.

[DLevine]

15. K&R

[Hortensis]

17. Proabortion here, but this is deeply flawed and could also be used by monsters

to justify atrocities and to deny the rights of all by denying them to some. And would be.

We're talking about the REPRODUCTIVE SYSTEM. Moral people never forget that at some point it results in TWO PEOPLE (or more) with rights to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness that must be protected.

The argument is WHEN does that happen.

[mitch96]

21. I was curious how the right could flip this argument to the anti vaccine crowd justification.

My body my choice and all that...
I'm pro abortion btw, just curious how this would work..
m

[Lars39]

23. A "moral" person? Whose morals?

My morals say the health and well-being of the mother comes first. And that “point” begins when the child has been born.

[Brenda]

28. Exactly.

I get so sick of that "morality" canard...that only those who believe in a God have it. And when they behave immorally they're forgiven so there's really no right or wrong for them since they always have a "Get out of jail free" card.

[Lars39]

29. Yeah, we've both seen how well that works!

[Evolve Dammit]

38. In other words, always zero accountability. "Saved" "born again" " forgiven" "absolved" of anything!

The centuries perfected stay out of jail free card and do anything you want cuz you will be forgiven. It's a perfect alabi and ultimate nanna nanna booboo for every transgression you ever have done, or do at any time in your morally bankrupt, non-christian life.

[Brenda]

40. In a word, or three..

I got mine.

That seems to be their motto.

I mean if we really want to go there and talk about morality, let's get specific folks. Why, EXACTLY WHY is it moral for patriarchal religions to force women to risk their lives (as pregnancy is for all women, no matter how low the risk) in order to give birth to an unwanted baby?

Is it really moral to compare a full grown female girl or woman to something that is not born and has no consciousness?

[Evolve Dammit]

49. Good questions. I got mine and screw you. Repukes and Libertarians.

[calimary]

55. That was my dad's favorite "motto."

IGMFU. Pronounced “IGG’-um-foo”. Stood for “I got mine, f-you.” And he always chuckled as he mentioned it.

[Evolve Dammit]

56. Was he a life long gooper?

[calimary]

57. Pretty much.

Much to my chagrin.

[Evolve Dammit]

58. I can only imagine. I wonder what remaining WWII vets think of this moment?

[SouthernDem4ever]

43. It sure makes a case for the non-believers

who don't want to look like crazy space cadets with no foot in reality.

[Ferrets are Cool]

18. K and R

[panader0]

19. Yep.

https://democraticunderground.com/100216841707

[nowforever]

20. It's always been an issue of control

Women expressing their sexuality with ultimate freedom is what triggered this latest ruling. Don' t you see, if women are to go around freely screwing like men...the whole world would collapse. It would then just be a carnival of lust, with depraved sexual activity occurring continuously, which naturally would doom the world. So we need to create obstacles and restrict women's ability to be free sexual beings. Men, of course, can never be expected to control their lustful ways, it's against the laws of science. So the physically stronger sex will continue its tyranny against the female as she can and will be controlled. All about power and control and if they need to use a club...no problem. If women were 7 ft tall and men were 5 ft tall...the world would work so much better. The court wants us to travel back to 1950 and learn to love it.

[Maraya1969]

22. Dead people have more control over their bodies than a pregnant woman does. You can't just go take

their organs. They have to agree to it and sign on the dotted line while still alive.

[wendyb-NC]

24. Excellent response

So true, undeniably on the mark.

[dlk]

25. Republicans are so sick and twisted they're punishing women and girls for being raped

Republicans have a long history of killing progress. Now they will be killing women and girls in service to their extremist agenda; barbaric monsters all.

[SouthernDem4ever]

44. and Clarence Thomas is using his position to exact revenge

he's been waiting for this since his confirmation hearings.

[dlk]

45. Yes; he is a deeply bitter old man

And given his level of corruption, he needs to be impeached.

[SouthernDem4ever]

46. Agreed.

[Colbert]

30. There is one precedent for this involuntary servitude

By statute, if you're male and between the ages of 18 and 35, they're allowed to force you to be their mercenary in their military adventures throughout the planet - and imprison you if you refuse. We got them to do away with that in 1973, but damn if they didn't bring it back in 1980. They don't currently force anyone to be a mercenary (or alternative "service" ), but they can.

My number was 91 in a year they were supposed to draft up to 93 - but was saved when it came to an end. A lot of men before me weren't that fortunate and came home without limbs or in body bags. I refuse to vote for anyone who denies an individual's self-ownership, and that include those who support conscription. The proper response, when queried on it, is not to say that women should also be included in it - but rather that it should be eliminated.

[HeartLikeAWheel]

54. Very, Very Close, but no cigar

Yes, the draft. Basically I agree with you. But the analogy does not completely hold up. There have always been exemptions to the draft. There was 4-F, there was Conscientious Objector status, having a rich daddy who pulled strings to get you into the National Guard or a medical exemption for bone spurs, and so forth. Even if inducted against one's will, service by itself did not inevitably include the risk of death. Serving as a draftee clerk-typist in Iowa may have been involuntary servitude, but it was not life-threatening. I've known a few who survived that. And you had to be 18. (Yes, the draft was on when I was in high school. I learned a lot then.) On the other hand, I've known two healthy young women who in this century died suddenly of pregnancy-related issues (stroke, clot). The world we're entering now in many states allows no exemption for anything: not age (11 years old!), not sexual assault, not health, not anything. And ask activists in Ireland (until recently) and Poland whether the "life of the mother" exemption always works.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/death-pregnant-woman-ignites-debate-about-abortion-ban-poland-2021-11-05/

And before you object with the argument that rich women will always get abortions, I want to note that in today's news a prominent Texas Republican state representative is calling for including women seeking abortions in our current, draconian antiabortion law (the one authorizing bounty hunters).

But it's useful as a thought experiment for men: what if you had to serve against your will in combat arms with no way out when you were an asthmatic 15 years old?

[YoshidaYui]

35. if Republicans Had their way

All women would be chattel. Fuck the Republicans.

[intrepidity]

51. This may be the strongest argument I've seen. KnR. nt