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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsJon Stewart should stand aside and let someone younger run the show
....should have stayed retired and let someone younger have the seat.
Link to tweet
ificandream
(10,215 posts)I haven't watched this yet, but I expect it to be great.
SoFlaBro
(3,016 posts)LakeArenal
(29,556 posts)applegrove
(121,730 posts)and build a campaign around and off that issue. So people are not shocked by the issue. So it is not a painful wound for democratic voters on election day. Knowing Jon Stwart like we do, he probably has a long term plan like that.
SoFlaBro
(3,016 posts)LakeArenal
(29,556 posts)SoFlaBro
(3,016 posts)The only people being lazy, are the ones whining about Stewart.
rockfordfile
(8,725 posts)LakeArenal
(29,556 posts)Cha
(302,898 posts)redqueen
(115,164 posts)No idea why some people's hair is on fire
bigtree
(88,909 posts)...tired of comedians who think this is a joke.
Tired of these nolabels-type fucks who think they're better than the party.
redqueen
(115,164 posts)You may be tired of the age crap but neither you nor anyone else can stomp your feet and make it go away.
He made age jokes but then went on to explain how much worse trump would be and called out project 2025 and warned that it would be project 2029 after that
bigtree
(88,909 posts)...I read somewhere that a sizable number of young folks were getting their news from the Daily Show.
I hope that's not still true. It'll be just a matter of time before he's jonesing for another slam on Pres. Biden or Democrats to get attention.
It's all hands on deck, and he's busy clowning in the steering room.
The Wizard
(12,750 posts)bigtree
(88,909 posts)...Daily Show is a bit of an oldster now.
BeyondGeography
(39,839 posts)Maher doesnt have an ounce of Stewarts courage or principles:
bigtree
(88,909 posts)...instead of expressing my own.
Nope.
BeyondGeography
(39,839 posts)bigtree
(88,909 posts)...you just don't like my response to your condescending remark that 'I'm smarter' than to have a different view of Stewart than you.
Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #41)
bigtree This message was self-deleted by its author.
LakeArenal
(29,556 posts)PatSeg
(49,540 posts)I am not happy with all the Biden jokes I've heard the past few years, but I'm not going to throw all our comedians out the window. So many have provided a valuable service at a time when we really need their voices. I just wish they'd stay away from the ageism jokes. Even Stephen Colbert does it on occasion and it makes me cringe. SNL has lost me completely however. They just went too far, too often.
Kennah
(14,451 posts)SunImp
(2,285 posts)1+
ificandream
(10,215 posts)betsuni
(27,098 posts)Last week's monologue: all that was missing in Hur's report was "I'm Donald Trump, and I approve this message."
brooklynite
(96,882 posts)...is that they're unwilling to make jokes about conservatives. Too many people here have joined the right wing in only wanting to hear things that target the other side.
bigtree
(88,909 posts)...not one second.
Ask how many people want to to hear someone yucking it up about Democrats or Pres. Biden today.
Democrats are a large coalition of diverse and disparate interests and concerns from myriad parts of the nation.
None of that is a joke, or is furthered, advanced, or aided by a cynical clown stepping all over themselves to get a laugh out of it. It's just insulting and banal.
THAT'S why this shit is best left to lambasting the opposition. There's an absolute limit to ragging on family if you care enough about what concerns them. Gloves off for the MAGA opposition.
This isn't hard.
brooklynite
(96,882 posts)bigtree
(88,909 posts)...that I somehow need this two-bit comedian to tell me what's what.
That's your argument? That I'm in a bubble because I won't tolerate someone joking about serious concerns like an idiot?
Let's understand something here. Jon Stewart may well be advocating something or other that you think is important, so you and anyone else who think he's some sort of revelation need to keep watching him.
Keep watching him until he gets around to something you think is important or vital.
What he represents to me is a cynical, fantastical view of our two-party system which assumes that standing outside and throwing stones, refusing to commit to a party is some kind of virtue.
You may well disagree, but I don't see any value in people like Stewart who insist their empty hands are superior to our party's working ones.
I don't have a wit of interest in his jokes, and I think many of them are antithetical to what he claims to want.
Your mileage may vary.
I got all of that, btw, by listening to everything. The overwhelming majority of my posts here come with receipts that I get from paying attention and retaining what I learn, from every source available except the absurd and malicious.
I'm not a politician, a media source, a public official, faux-political television personality or part of any other entity that deserves to be held to this nebulous standard of yours.
I have interests and concerns that, despite what you may think of me, I don't wear on my sleeve --rather, I advocate for a broader progress than my own vital interests.
But, I don't deserve to be lambasted for not following some gadfly tv clown like a sycophant who doesn't have his own life or identity.
I'm not here for Jon Stewart, I'm here for my family, myself, and myriad other people and interests that share those. That's not a bubble, it's a broad and expansive life, according to MY OWN principles and expectations.
That's what I share here. Not from a bubble, but from the broad view of my own experienced life. A piffle, perhaps to you, projecting whatever you can conjure about me from a little box of words.
But like most people here, I'm much more than what I express here, and I'd expect grown people to understand and respect that.
brooklynite
(96,882 posts)Perhaps the problem is thinking of a comedy show as a source of information of opinion.
bigtree
(88,909 posts)...you talked around yourself instead of addressing your insulting remark.
Maybe give it a rest.
brooklynite
(96,882 posts)I'm not afraid to hear alternative viewpoints.
bigtree
(88,909 posts)...and declared I'm in a bubble because of my viewpoint.
If you want people to accept what you say as sincere and informed, you should do the same.
Now, stop harassing me over your own insult.
flying_wahini
(7,725 posts)bigtree
(88,909 posts)...wife 67.
We're collectively about 65.
thesquanderer
(12,241 posts)When "here" is DU, that makes sense. The Daily Show is not "here." It is not their portfolio to be a funny version of DU.
And to the extent that their audience may not be entirely Dems (imagine!), showing *some* understanding of or sympathy with the other side might actually make some non-Dems a bit more receptive to the presentation of his generally leftier perspective.
bigtree
(88,909 posts)...I'm older than I am young, and I'm not ambivalent about what I want out of life right now.
Your mileage may vary.
thesquanderer
(12,241 posts)LakeArenal
(29,556 posts)whathehell
(29,537 posts)It's clearly NOT a time for "bothsiderism".
rdchili96
(175 posts)Exactly this.
whathehell
(29,537 posts)Like others here, I was also very disappointed in his show. Sorry if you don't approve.
AkFemDem
(2,019 posts)That Bidens age ISNT an issue? In the real world, Im hearing grumbling, frustration and yes- lots of jokes, from other democrats about his age and the issues that come with it but here we are expected to just stick our heads in the sand and pretend all is hunky dory.
Wanna do something other than whistle in the wind platitudes about ageism? Weaponize this ish!! Trump is also OLD AF. So whenever anyone mentions Bidens age the response is oh well, thats who we have and your alternative is the doddering old man in Florida who wants to be dictator before he dies. So are you going to pick the old man who gives a damn about regular American citizens or the sleazy old man who runs a criminal empire?
LakeArenal
(29,556 posts)There is no balance between trump and Biden on any other issue EXCEPT AGE.
Pushing Biden into the same basket on dementia is not a joke to a lot of us.
Spending equal time joking about this issue only hurts Biden at this point.
This is an opinion.
Response to bigtree (Reply #4)
Post removed
I mean, the fact is that Biden is an old man. That's not a disqualifying condition. Trump is also an old man. Jon Stewart acknowledged that and told jokes about it. That's not both sides crap.
Unlike Trump, Biden is competent, has accomplished a lot as president, and has managed to avoid a whole host of negative things like sexually assaulting people, inciting insurrection, or advocating abandoning our allies. Stewart made all that clear as well. Again, not both sides crap.
But pretending that Biden's age isn't real or that his age doesn't occasionally show isn't going to win anyone to his side. Reacting angrily to anybody who mentions it, and insisting that Biden is not an old man, is not going to inspire any sort of confidence. Clearly we want people to vote for Biden. Acknowledging (or even making jokes about) his age isn't going to prevent voters from doing that. Voters can see that for himself. Insisting that we all pretend otherwise, and making that pretense a requirement for "true" support, seems patently absurd.
bigtree
(88,909 posts)@jonstewart: "The stakes of this election don't make Donald Trump's opponent less subject to scrutiny. It actually makes him more subject to scrutiny. If the barbarians are at the gate, you want Conan standing on the ramparts, not the Chocolate Chip Cookie guy."
Who's Stewart's candidate in this election?
This is Democratic Underground, btw, and we're here to support Democrats. The only one runnning against the president right now is Dean Phillips at 3% nationally.
What exactly is Stewart advocating for here?
fishwax
(29,291 posts)That's not advocating against Biden. That's critiquing the way Biden and his team are grappling with the age issue.
If you can't take any criticism of the candidate whatsoever, then it's going to be an especially long seven months. But here's the more important thing: if you insist that nobody offer any criticism of the candidate whatsoever, you're not going to win anybody over to your side. It's not helping the cause.
I'm aware, and I support democrats. Again, if you're argument is that, in order to support democrats we have to angrily reject any mention (or even jokes about) Biden's age, then I think that argument is radically misguided. And if that's not your argument, then I'm not sure what your point is.
Honesty, perhaps? And a more effective way of dealing with the issue than insisting that (as a surrogate that Stewart showed a clip of claimed) "Joe Biden is not an old man."
If the plan to bring in voters depends upon them agreeing with that statement, it's going to be a pretty hard sell, psychologically speaking.
bigtree
(88,909 posts)...neither of them have a viable alternative, but they'll keep banging on about sometthing that no one can fix, outside of re electing this successful president whose age didn't prevent him from achieving anything.
If it's not ignorant, useless apathy from Stewart, then it's subversive ratfucking.
fishwax
(29,291 posts)And he knows that Biden is the only alternative to Trump. The fact that these two are our choices was an organizing principle of last night's rant. This election depends on getting democratic voters to the polls and getting swing voters to vote for Biden. Insisting either that it isn't true that he's an old man or that we shouldn't ever mention that truth is not, in my opinion, an effective strategy to make that happen.
Given that these two are our choices, and that the opposition is going to attack Biden for his age, Stewart's viable alternative was that we will hopefully see a more effective response to the issue.
bigtree
(88,909 posts)...and ultimately apathy.
His handwringing over something he knows well Joe Biden can't do much about (certainly not stop aging) isn't helping.
It's self-serving to his sense of humor, but people will tell you with seriousness that he's a sincere advocate. If that's the case then advocate sincerely, not this cynical game where he feigns concern over something he knows is intractable, for giggles.
Who asked him to? Who told him that whinging about age is more important to the reelection campaign of Pres. Biden than the myriad other issues and accomplishments that characterize his presidency?
fishwax
(29,291 posts)And that is much more likely to lead to apathy than is the simple acknowledgement of that fact.
Biden is old. Biden is the clear choice over Donald Trump.
Both of those things can be true. In fact, both of those things are pretty obvious, in my book, and I'm going to have a hard time trusting the judgment of anybody who insists that either is untrue.
And call me crazy, but I think that's where most of the electorate is at as well.
Let us consider a different pair of statements: "Biden is not old. Biden is the clear choice over Donald Trump."
I think the number of people who are going to find it easy or imaginable to agree with both of those statements is probably smaller. Because as a fact we know that Biden is 81 years old, and most people are going to agree that that is old. And occasionally Biden says or does something that people might "read" as a sign of age.
So if the strategy to get people motivated to go to the polls and convinced to vote for Biden when they're there is to somehow get them to agree with the second set of statements ... well, I think that's a pretty bad strategy, because I think most people are going to find that difficult.
If it's a referendum on Biden's accomplishments as president versus Trump's accomplishments, then we win easily.
If it's a referendum on Biden's suitability for office vs Trump's suitability, then we win easily.
If it's a referendum on policies, then we win easily.
If it's a referendum on age, then it's a wash, because they're both old.
If it's a referendum on whether or not Biden is an old man ... well, that's a bit more vulnerable, because "Joe Biden is not an old man" is not likely to convince a lot of people.
bigtree
(88,909 posts)...not the Biden campaign.
It's really something if he believes he's some sort of political pied piper. No one elected Stewart, or even hired him to serve in that role.
I don't think the Biden campaign is going to be as ambivalent as the people who think this election is an unfathomable question.
Put those folks at the back of the campaign.
fishwax
(29,291 posts)I don't get where you're getting that this is his impression of himself or his role, but whatever.
The important thing is that, in spite of all the wailing and gnashing of teeth, he's also not hurting the Biden campaign. At all.
What he is doing, though, is giving a sense of visibility and voice to those who can't stand trump but also don't feel well served by Biden surrogates insisting that Biden is not an old man. And he's breaking down the perception (created by such surrogacy, and reinforced by the wailing and gnashing of teeth at the mere mention of Biden's age) that one has to believe Biden is not an old man in order to support him. And that, ultimately, will help the Biden campaign. This is one of the nice things about this election: by serving democracy and by serving honest discussion, we help the Biden campaign. Because (as Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert made a point of making clear back in the good old days when they were on together and back-to-back) reality has a liberal bias.
The people whinging and grabbing pitchforks for Stewart, on the other hand ... I mean, if there's a productive purpose that such behavior is serving I certainly don't see it. I think that attitude will ultimately be far more harmful than anything Stewart has said or done.
bigtree
(88,909 posts)...you have people arguing that he's 'just a comedian,' and others arguing that he's some important advocate for party and president.
That's what I'm judging him on, so take your pick. Either you're helping this campaign, or you're just riffing off of it.
If he doesn't think helping this president get reelected is more important, then he's really not helping anything but his tv act.
Don't act as if that's hard to understand.
fishwax
(29,291 posts)He's an advocate for the public, and in so doing he's helping the campaign because in this campaign being an advocate for honest discussion can only help one candidate. Donald Trump's only hope is a world full of lies.
Don't act as if that's hard to understand.
bigtree
(88,909 posts)...an example:
washingtonpost 2015
Jon Stewart perfectly diagnosed the problem with Hillary Clintons candidacy
by Chris Cillizza
Link to tweet
fishwax
(29,291 posts)bigtree
(88,909 posts)...it's this kind of undermining of Hillary which got us Trump.
You do the math any way you want, that was the result of people like Stewart who though they were kingmakers in the election.
He said many times that both partiies are the same, for anyone who bothers to listen.
Jon Stewart Made America More Cynical
But at least one ode rang false. At The Atlantic, David Sims wrote that Stewarts willingness to swipe at every hagiography or exaggeration presented by politicians and media alike made him the most trusted man on television in an era of profound cynicism. But Stewart shouldnt get a free pass, just because hes funny: He did his part to foster that atmosphere of distrust and scorn. Hardly anyoneright or left, public figure or ordinary citizencould assume they were exempt from his mockery. Ive often found that watching Stewart attack everyone for half an hour can leave you feeling kind of hopeless.
Empirical research supports this idea. In 2004, Jody Baumgartner and Jonathan Morris, political scientists at East Carolina University, designed an experiment to look at how watching The Daily Show affected viewers feelings toward politicians of both parties...
Baumgartner and Morris asked members of the control group about their media consumption habits and attitudes toward the candidates and, interestingly, found that regularly watching the The Daily Show was the strongest predictor of lacking faith in the electoral system and distrusting the news media. Other comic-news shows, like The Jay Leno Show or Late Show With David Letterman, didnt have the same effect.
https://newrepublic.com/article/121069/jon-stewart-made-viewers-more-cynical
fishwax
(29,291 posts)Stewart didn't think himself a kingmaker, and he didn't deliver a trump victory. Nor did his raising a concern about Clinton's candidacy (valid or not) drive voters to trump, or even on balance away from Clinton. The same is true of his discussion of Biden's age. That's not going to drive anyone to vote for trump, because he's just giving voice to something that his audience can see with their own eyes.
Now, what I do think is ultimately damaging to Biden's election chances is the knee-jerk ranting against someone like Stewart who makes a comment about Biden's age. Despite all your bluster and occasional condescension, I don't think anything you're doing is helping the Biden campaign in any practical way. It's all about getting voters to the polls and getting them to pull the lever for Biden while they're there. I think there is a mechanism by which Stewart's approach makes that happen, as I've said. But I don't see how rants against Stewart contribute to the cause at all.
bigtree
(88,909 posts)...there's nothing 'laughable ' about my opinion, and if you think so you need to find something else to humor yourself with.
Always surprised at people who try to get me to read their opinion after ridiculing my own.
We're done.
fishwax
(29,291 posts)I also find it a little bit surprising that you bristle at what you perceive as my ridicule, as though your behavior throughout the thread has been free of ridicule and condescension.
But, at any rate, it appears we're past the point where the discussion can proceed productively. I hope that Stewart continues doing what he's doing, because I think he's bringing a net good to our electoral possibilities. Likewise, I hope that your enthusiasm for the Biden campaign continues unabated. Have a great Tuesday, bigtree.
bigtree
(88,909 posts)...to people who present themselves that way to me.
I think some folks here think because they're able to respond to a thread that the poster is supposed to be agreeable to their pov.
Some get frustrated and lash out. I'm very adept at responding to those posts, as well, and I'm no stranger to being bullied on a thread as if I have some obligation to respond.
Those who are projecting some kind of authoriative demand for attention may get even less for that effort from me.
Most of my posts are a share, not an obligation, and most DUers respond as if they understand there's an ordinary person on the other end, as you did at the beginning of our discussion, which I always appreciate.
I'm always eager to share ideas, and I'm more sure of what I believe than anything else I post, so I get a bit sore at folks who want to denigrate those.
This tiff is more about my fatigue with responding than from your own back and forth.
I appreciate the kind word, though.
LakeArenal
(29,556 posts)betsuni
(27,098 posts)Her entire career has been dedicated to making the lives of women and children better, has been consistent and authentic. Believing an absurd caricature... dumb.
Cha
(302,898 posts)to Save Democracy.. as long as JS gets his GD laughs.
fishwax
(29,291 posts)In fact, I think that by doing the sort of thing he did yesterday, he will (a) get his GD laughs, (b) ultimately be a net benefit to Biden's electoral chances, and maybe even, as it happens (c) help save democracy.
HuskyOffset
(900 posts)that Stewart was trying to say that Biden's team should stop making Tik-Tok videos about chocolate chip cookie making moms and talk about more serious substantive subjects?
That's where I saw that particular criticism aimed anyway, but I could be wrong.
bigtree
(88,909 posts)...if that's true, he's full of shit and needs to take more time looking at what this campaign team is doing and lift a finger to promote that, not his dumbded-down cynicism, pretending or sadly projecting that he doesn't have access to more than this tired MAGAcrite trope about age.
Moosepoop
(1,977 posts)He's saying that President Biden should be portrayed better and stronger, in more "Conan the Barbarian" style than rooting for chocolate chip cookies.
He's saying "SHOW Biden BEING the strong, capable, multi-tasking, take-no-shit manager of all that's important that you all say he is 'behind the scenes.' The public needs to SEE it, not just hear about it." And that the cookie thing just makes him look old and ineffectual. It feeds into the "Biden is old" narrative, to his and our detriment.
Yes, Biden's track record as president so far is enormous, and in a perfect world would speak for itself. But it's not speaking loudly enough to be heard by those who need to hear it. I agree with Stewart that the campaign needs to highlight his strengths more (though I disagree that filming and releasing closed-door meetings is the way to do it).
At first I was taken aback by Stewart's harping on President Biden's age, but as the segment went on I came to see it as showing us what the rest of the general public outside DU are seeing, and his urging the campaign to get much better at portraying him as the warrior that he is.
It's that difference in perception of Trump and him as to which is SEEN and PERCEIVED as strong and capable that is important. Biden isn't being seen that way by too many, and that's what needs to change.
bigtree
(88,909 posts)...all the while, at the same time, stepping all over what's actually important for voters to hear with their own myopic concern.
The disconnect is stunning.
Moosepoop
(1,977 posts)But I do think he has a point.
By all means, YES his campaign should keep publicizing and emphasizing his accomplishments so far, and all that's at stake going forward.
But do so with an eye toward promoting Biden as the strong and capable fighter that he is.
Perception is important when it comes to people who just aren't as informed as they should be, and there are a lot of them out there whose votes we need.
I don't see a disconnect there.
betsuni
(27,098 posts)Biden should be getting the most scrutiny. Makes no sense to me at all.
claudette
(4,239 posts)and one of the hosts actually asked him a question implying he attacks both sides. He said (paraphrasing) he doesn't want to demonstrate "left or right" - he wants to show good from bad or integrity from corruption and the voter chooses. Or something to that effect, implying he is a "both-sider" and we have to decide for ourselves which one is worse.
redqueen
(115,164 posts)His views are clear.
He plays to the middle.
Don't like? Don't watch.
claudette
(4,239 posts)I dont
angrychair
(9,419 posts)Was "bothsideism"
It matters because, despite some opinions otherwise, Stewart's opinion carries significant weight, especially with younger voters.
Watch his opening segment, he mentions Biden's age twice as much as he does any criticism of Trump.
redqueen
(115,164 posts)I don't know what kind of voodoo mind games y'all think he must be playing to say that but somehow secretly convince them not to do that but whatever.
rdchili96
(175 posts)it was not.
W_HAMILTON
(8,224 posts)"Jon Stewart kicks off his Daily Show Monday night residency by coming to grips with the reality of America's two chronologically challenged presidential candidates: Joe Biden and Donald Trump...."
That's from the YouTube version of last night's show and it's YouTube short synopsis.
It's *literally* pulling the "both sides" bullshit.
I'd also take umbrage with the continued false narrative that no one wants to see Biden -- or Trump, for that matter -- run for president again. They are both going to dominate their respective primaries. Maybe if people don't want to see them run again, they should vote in the primaries for someone else rather than just constantly bitch about it on the internet? As it stands, the only people that matter here -- the voters themselves -- look to want both Biden and (sadly) Trump to run again.
marble falls
(60,267 posts)Ace Rothstein
(3,271 posts)They weren't nearly as good as him at the job.
redqueen
(115,164 posts)I couldn't watch the other hosts.
Ace Rothstein
(3,271 posts)There were episodes that didn't make me laugh once.
marble falls
(60,267 posts)... they tossed him in as a place holder for someone who didn't show up. I think Noah is a lot stronger as a performer now and will do very well when he gets his late night show.
Sympthsical
(9,880 posts)Within three minutes, it was like watching the old show. Trevor Noah could never. (And I was one of the few people who liked him)
I thought the segment was great - and hilarious - but I was definitely thinking while watching, "Yeah, DU's gonna hate this."
limbicnuminousity
(1,409 posts)when he said "I was hoping I wouldn't have to do this." The man is tired. Look at those red-rimmed eyes. He said point blank that Biden's first term was "phenomenal." The world is chaotic right now, maybe in a better timeline we'd have younger candidates better able to handle the physical demands of the job. Clinton slept what, maybe 2-3 hours a night as president? Is anyone seriously thrilled to realize that an 81 year old may have to get by on 2-3 hours a night for the next four years? It's not a question of whether he can, he's obviously already fulfilled the duties of the job.
When did old become a dirty word? Pretending 81 is the new 24 seems pointless.
thesquanderer
(12,241 posts)Sympthsical
(9,880 posts)There was that totally bizarre period where people were doing things like showing her work out and saying, "I could never keep up with her!"
And I was standing there like, "What the fuck is happening . . ." She was an older - frail - woman who had visibly slowed down in her twilight years. But people didn't want to hear that, so they went full Soviet on the situation and just created an entirely new reality surrounding her that looked insane to anyone who was standing outside the shared delusion circle.
And Biden isn't RBG. He is as healthy an 81 year old as there is by all accounts.
But it's still 81, and that's going to elicit a lot of commentary. Voters are side-eyeing the whole situation. It's going to be the campaign's job to assuage doubts. That's the hand that's been dealt. Running around with, "He's doing differential calculus while I can barely balance my checkbook Ha Ha!" isn't a good look. Voters are weird and fickle and difficult, but they do not like it when they're blatantly lied to their face.
Ok, non-Trump voters don't. With Trump voters, I think being lied to is part of the appeal and the fantasy with them.
We can't emperor's new clothes the situation. In the age of social media, plugged in 24/7, it's a losing strategy. Stewart is pointing that out.
(While looking up something to see if I was remember correctly, I found this flashback of an article from 2018. See if you notice any similarities and shudder at how gobsmackingly prescient it was, right down to the replacement: https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/11/what-cult-ruth-bader-ginsburg-rbg-got-wrong-obama-trump/)
limbicnuminousity
(1,409 posts)Appreciated this:
jaxexpat
(7,438 posts)whathehell
(29,537 posts)'nuff said.
Ace Rothstein
(3,271 posts)It was almost like he never left.
mucifer
(24,555 posts)Laundry list of some of the evil trump has done.
But I still feel he is encouraging third party voting.
Also made me really upset to see President Biden claim there is a border between Palestine and MEXICO. Damn ! 😢
bigtree
(88,909 posts)...and he's thinking he can exploit issues for attention which really don't need him generating cynicism for clicks and ratings.
These middle of the roaders really think they're doing something special because everyone else with a brain knows not to go there and they see the vacuum.
It's just the worst kind of politics, and his spiel is just going to get worse. Sure, he''ll take down the low-hanging fruit that's trump, but he won't settle for just anti-Trump viewers, he'll crave the anti-Biden applause, especially the anti-Democratic applause like he's some sort of political hero for mouthing off.
It's his thing.
themaguffin
(4,114 posts)bigtree
(88,909 posts)...
@jonstewart: "The stakes of this election don't make Donald Trump's opponent less subject to scrutiny. It actually makes him more subject to scrutiny. If the barbarians are at the gate, you want Conan standing on the ramparts, not the Chocolate Chip Cookie guy."
Link to tweet
Link to tweet
Link to tweet
Link to tweet
Link to tweet
Link to tweet
Link to tweet
thesquanderer
(12,241 posts)Last edited Tue Feb 13, 2024, 12:56 PM - Edit history (1)
Seeing that the "bothsiderism" there was on the topic of age, I think it may be worth noting: Most of the media is focussed on Biden's age, but not Trump's. In that context, maybe "bothsiderism" is helpful. We can't do anything to make Biden not old. The way to level that particular aspect of this playing field might be to strongly point out that, in fact, Trump has no real advantage here. This could be a case where denying your own candidate's shortcoming could work against you, it's not an unreasonable concern. Instead it might be better to get people to understand that, while it may be a shortcoming, it is a shortcoming equally shared by both candidates. Which means that, the end, it is not something that should be an important factor in your evaluation of the candidates.
bigtree
(88,909 posts)thesquanderer
(12,241 posts)One, that stuff is important, but that doesn't mean that people aren't thinking about age. We can't put our heads in the sand. These other things can be discussed as well, while not simply ignoring the elephant in the room (even if it's largely the media that has put the elephant there in the first place). But that also brings me to...
Two, that stuff is not as easy to make a humorous, entertaining sketch about. That is, after all, the point of the show.
I think what you're looking for is more of a John Oliver approach. But we also have John Oliver for that. That's not what Stewart does. But sure, not every show is for every viewer, and even not every left-leaning show is for every left-leaning viewer.
People here similarly sometimes get bugged when Colbert takes jabs at Biden. Colbert, likewise, is not for everyone. But mass entertainment is not exclusively targeted toward "us." And again, the show is much tougher on TFG, and there is again that argument to be made that the show makes its TFG points more strongly (at least to the "general public" ) because it does not see our candidate as flawless.
bigtree
(88,909 posts)...none of this historically successful presidency.
The only thing thiat it does is distract from the rest of the campaign's intentions to promote the man's agenda and his many other attributes.
Not grouse around dishonestly like his age has been some kind of handicap.
jaxexpat
(7,438 posts)and, I fear, honest examination.
There is no good thing about jumping Stewart's spiel as bothsiderism. Why isn't the corporate media reminding the world that Trump is a horrible nightmare? They are, in fact, burning their best energies diffusing his neurotic cruelty expose which serves him for personality, occupation and character. The fact that Trump is old is lost in this media "cover-up-by-ignoring and deflecting" dance of mania. The fact that the media will not let up on Biden's age means they have no legitimate complaint about him. They're too scared for their long-term corporate survival to repeat verbatim and with conviction, Trump's blather as fact. People could easily figure out their game, eh?
It is good to remind everyone that, on the metric of age, they are a tie, equally guilty of living long. It informs the national conversation enjoyed every four years. It clears the air and the playing field, so the rest of the candidate's personalities and characters bear scrutiny. That, friends, is an invaluable boost for Joe. And in the "tough crowd" of American electoral politics, we and he need all we can get.
Cha
(302,898 posts)themaguffin
(4,114 posts)MissMillie
(38,854 posts).
rdchili96
(175 posts)the irony is palpable here lol.
Think. Again.
(15,846 posts)(Thanks Rhiannon12866!, I don't do cable. https://democraticunderground.com/132212290 )
I did not get any bad impression from it. Stewart confronted the age question head on and treated honestly. The "bothsiderism" was strictly about the fact that both Biden and trump are not young (and neither is Stewart).
Yes Stewart could have pointed out the vast differences that DO exist between the two candidates, but remember, this is a comedy show. That's all it is.
If we're going to rely on comedians to save democracy, maybe we should elect Zelenskyy, but my money is on Biden.
bigtree
(88,909 posts)...I think that's how this works.
agingdem
(8,428 posts)your routine is no longer cutting edge...it's boring, insulting, and OLD..see, not funny... ...big mistake coming out of "retirement'...
redqueen
(115,164 posts)He had a show on apple TV but they wouldn't let him talk about China or AI.
I thought it was nice and pointed that he brought those two subjects up in his opening segment.
agingdem
(8,428 posts)and his parting of the ways with Apple TV is irrelevant...if he intends to present Biden/Trump dueling gaffes then he's equating the two and that's not the case..."both sides" doesn't play in this consequential election
Mossfern
(2,930 posts)but my husband was eager, so I watched a bit. I agree with the sentiment of many other posters above (below?) This show is doing a disservice to our country. He definitely seemed to be looking for an alternative candidate for POTUS. Please don't underestimate Stewart's influence - it will go way beyond the show itself.
Aren't we talking about it here on DU?
I'm sure we're not the only ones.
ramen
(845 posts)bigtree
(88,909 posts)....Jon Stewart is a both-sidesing joke.
Most news-comedy is neither.
ramen
(845 posts)I haven't seen the offending segment and it's unclear to me how many of us have.
Jon Stewart has historically made comedy where there are funny things. Sometimes I bristle at some things here and there but I don't see the guy who has done so much for first responders and veterans and called out right wing insanity foe decades as an enemy.
bigtree
(88,909 posts)...you can look it up and form your own opinion.
And maybe leave it at that.
ramen
(845 posts)Thanks for the consideration.
For anyone else who was also earnestly wondering why we apparently want to crucify Jon Stewart, here you go:
bigtree
(88,909 posts)...like when he worked overtime to be the cool guy in 2015 with his clumsy focus on Hillary's emails and publicly trashing her like he'd ever accomplish as much as the former Senator and First Lady in his silly life.
washingtonpost 2015
Jon Stewart perfectly diagnosed the problem with Hillary Clintons candidacy
by Chris Cillizza
twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/730817827922411521
...maybe you don't remember any of this.
Jon Stewart Made America More Cynical
But at least one ode rang false. At The Atlantic, David Sims wrote that Stewarts willingness to swipe at every hagiography or exaggeration presented by politicians and media alike made him the most trusted man on television in an era of profound cynicism. But Stewart shouldnt get a free pass, just because hes funny: He did his part to foster that atmosphere of distrust and scorn. Hardly anyoneright or left, public figure or ordinary citizencould assume they were exempt from his mockery. Ive often found that watching Stewart attack everyone for half an hour can leave you feeling kind of hopeless.
Empirical research supports this idea. In 2004, Jody Baumgartner and Jonathan Morris, political scientists at East Carolina University, designed an experiment to look at how watching The Daily Show affected viewers feelings toward politicians of both parties...
Baumgartner and Morris asked members of the control group about their media consumption habits and attitudes toward the candidates and, interestingly, found that regularly watching the The Daily Show was the strongest predictor of lacking faith in the electoral system and distrusting the news media. Other comic-news shows, like The Jay Leno Show or Late Show With David Letterman, didnt have the same effect.
https://newrepublic.com/article/121069/jon-stewart-made-viewers-more-cynical
ramen
(845 posts)the first link is pretty clearly not bothsidesing. To quote your quote, "And that is not to say she's not preferable to Donald Trump because at this point I would vote for Mr T over Donald Trump." That is a very clear endorsement. The fact that he dared to have an opinion about Hillary Clinton but also responsibly contextualized that opinion with his response to it being to advocate for Hillary Clinton, right there in the same breath, makes it pretty plain. I'm old enough to remember when we wore pins and shirts that said "Dissent is patriotic."
Regarding the New Republic link, pinning American cynicism on this one guy seems like a stretch, to me. Cynical Americans gravitated towards a funny show hosted b a cynical American. Correlation is not causal. Further, this bit
doesn't add up. What public figure believes themself to be or actually is exempt from mockery? Comedians do comedy, often about people, frequently public figures.
betsuni
(27,098 posts)"lesser of two evils" caricature many people came to believe that encouraged both sides cynicism.
So what's her real personality? If Hillary wasn't being authentic in 2016, she'd be different now. Is she? No. Spent her whole career getting progressive things done, especially for women and children (Maya Angelou: "I had watched her when she was First Lady of Arkansas. I thought this white girl would come to Arkansas and play croquet on the lawn and throw tea parties. And she was just the opposite. She worked on public health and education ... even prisons" -- if Clinton was a big phony liar, she wouldn't have gotten 94% of black women's votes, they know her).
Stewart and many others erased who she was, or didn't bother to find out. Same as the constant lies about being corrupt and Wall Street Wall Street Wall Street corporate shill. Any evidence? Zero, why she isn't sipping fancy champagne with oligarchs on one of her fifteen yachts or re-decorating one of her dozens of houses right now. It was all a fantasy.
Now a both sides caricature of Biden.
Chakaconcarne
(2,690 posts)and a little criticism of the left keeps the center engaged.
He is ammo in our weapons cache...I don't see why we need to rail on him so.
NoRethugFriends
(2,775 posts)Caliman73
(11,767 posts)He made jokes about OUR guy and that is an existential threat to the country because people can't tell the difference between comedy and real analysis.
Seriously, he was fine in my opinion but then I can tell the difference between a good President and a criminal narcissistic sociopath.
Basic LA
(2,047 posts)We can't be so uptight & humorless & threatened so easily. It was good to see Jon Stewart back. We need to lighten up. We can't pretend Biden is a teenager. Humor is our friend.
redqueen
(115,164 posts)Can't have that, apparently.
Imo it's just what we need. Preaching to the choir helps no one
UTUSN
(71,930 posts)First I accepted him as a prime Lib.
Then I was mystified when he knocked Crossfire off on CNN.
Then I was disturbed his making nice to O,'Reilly.
Then I was pissed his pandering to Glen Beckkk's come together rally in DC.
Is he 3rd Way?
Then more with the Jerry LEWIS preaching and scolding for his charity.
Now back, couldn't make it?
Not for me.
Stupidity.
Chakaconcarne
(2,690 posts)EYESORE 9001
(27,270 posts)As is my case
Im called a consultant.
Mad_Machine76
(24,708 posts)is that some people are acting like either they didn't realize he was "old" in 2020 and are suddenly upset about that fact in spite of the fact that virtually nothing has changed about him other than his chronological age or that they really didn't expect him to run for re-election and are now demanding that he step aside for somebody they like better. This is also why it frustrates me about stories saying that people don't want a rematch of Trump vs. Biden, which I actually agree with but to me that's about having to endure Trump 24-7-365. I fully expected Biden to run for re-election, which most incumbent Presidents usually do, but Trump is the one who is really unwanted in the race.
twodogsbarking
(11,697 posts)"I'm Not a Comedian... I'm Lenny Bruce"
fishwax
(29,291 posts)Autumn
(45,803 posts)Last edited Tue Feb 13, 2024, 01:58 PM - Edit history (1)
After Jon left the show lost it's edge and basically sucked.
bigtree
(88,909 posts)...my wife explains away my jokes, as well.
DownriverDem
(6,478 posts)One show makes you mad? Wait until next week.
Stuckinthebush
(10,982 posts)JS is a wonderful voice that we need right now.
jalan48
(14,147 posts)Young people I know ask why Biden hasn't stepped aside to let another, younger candidate run for President. Someone who more closely represents their age demographic.
bigtree
(88,909 posts)...like Stewart.
If you want to make a difference in this election, help elect Joe Biden.
Don't just play around with our lives and futures like these people believing they can reinvent the two-party system before the election and waltz into the WH with nothing but their cellphones and some gadfly or some upstart looking to push aside THIS president's solid record of progress for some inexperienced yahoo whose best act is pointing and saying 'old' repeatedly.
Be The Light
(51 posts)Glad he's back!!
flying_wahini
(7,725 posts)He covered the age of tfg and Biden and didnt pull punches.
He has a knack for putting a story into context that others cant explain well.
I think he will help and not hurt at all.
In fact I think we need all the help we can get.
SCantiGOP
(14,117 posts)But I loved it and thought he made a lot of good points.
Its the MAGA side that demands everyone speak in unison under the orders of their leader. I wish Biden had stepped aside, but I am doing everything I can to see that he is re-elected. That does it include censoring discussions.
SoFlaBro
(3,016 posts)thesquanderer
(12,241 posts)...which most media reports do not do. That is arguably a nudge in the right direction.
SoFlaBro
(3,016 posts)This 100%.
onenote
(43,959 posts)Hope22
(2,386 posts)Bashing someone for age when the guy they are running against is a convicted rapist who
.well you know the rest. I just cant deal with that. Biden didnt want to be President but he is literally trying to save us day after day, treating people with respect and being a fine human. Age needs to leave the stage!
Last night Lawrence had a great article on The Last Word. It highlighted how presidential age and illness were viewed much differently in past decades. Worth the watch!
Aviation Pro
(13,039 posts)Because his closing argument was spot the fuck on.
RussBLib
(9,502 posts)...my recording of the show got cut off about a minute after the editor of the Economist magazine came on, so I didn't get to see the Moment of Zen (I presume he continued that), nor the closing argument that you mentioned.
But I watched the bulk of the show and I am a little disappointed, but not surprised, at the widespread condemnation of Stewart I see here on DU for covering one of the leading news stories of the day, that is, Biden and Trump's advanced ages. So-called "both-siderism." Yeah, Biden is 81, and many people who reach that age have become rather enfeebled. Some retain most of their faculties into even more advanced ages (see Norman Lear). Some get dementia in their 40's and 50's, so ones age is in no way indicative or predictive of their mental capacity. Memory can become slower. I know mine has.
Stewart has pretty much always picked on "both sides" of the political spectrum. If you don't like what Stewart is doing now, you probably didn't like him during his initial run on the Daily Show, and you missed out.
I think it's great to have him back on the air, but I think I learned that he will only do the show on Mondays. Taking a cue from Rachel Maddow and Jen Psaki.
I thought the show was a good one and I was not offended by his jabs at Biden, which were balanced by his jabs at Trump. I expected them. I just wish he was on 4-5 days a week, rather than one.
To risk the ire of some of the DU community, buck up buckaroos. You can handle some criticism of your guy. It's inevitable. Biden is not perfect, but yeah, he's light-years better than Trump, and I believe that most Americans see that.
https://russblib.blogspot.com
tavernier
(13,036 posts)He has an edgier style and doesnt shy away from criticism of the Emperor.
onenote
(43,959 posts)Doesn't bother me, but it's clear that is a line not to be crossed for some DUer who want humor to fit their politics.
RussBLib
(9,502 posts)Fiendish Thingy
(17,427 posts)Each of the regular cast members gave a report that included references to Stewart stepping aside and letting one of them run the show.
Jordan Klepper even blasted Stewart for his both sides shtick that he just spent the first 20 minutes of the show on.
Silent Type
(5,618 posts)flying-skeleton
(730 posts)To mock others you must first learn to mock yourself. Otherwise you're just a bully.
And that's exactly what Jon did.
Relax.
SoFlaBro
(3,016 posts)RussBLib
(9,502 posts)Stewart has always been a bit self-deprecating.
tritsofme
(18,044 posts)but it seems silly to expect anything else out of him.
Rebl2
(14,332 posts)day a week, kind of like Rachel M. On msnbc. Doubtful I will watch him after last night.
underpants
(185,354 posts)Kennah
(14,451 posts)Stewart engages in bothsiderism by pointing out the flaws in both candidates. Trump is, well, Trump. But Biden is old and commits gaffes. And those are the same, right?
Stewart states the world isn't over on November 5th, it's just an election.
Stewart attacks the candidates for being old, but he doesn't point out it's our system of parties where money is speech and corporations are people that elects candidates with the most money so we tend to get old candidates because they've been raising money longer and have better connections. The system, that the voters express no interest in changing, elects these candidates.
Stewart points out that he's also old, so it's all good. It doesn't matter who wins, and Jon Stewart encourages more people to think that it's just an election.
Then Stewart brings on the Zanny Minton Beddoes to have a serious discussion slamming both sides.
I don't expect him to be a cheerleader for Biden, but failing to point out the very real existential threat that exists today is a huge fail.
Heh, Jon, they're just firefighters, and everyone dies, so why does it matter that 9/11 first responders are left to die? I mean, they chose a dangerous career, so they knew this would happen. Suckers and losers.
Injection of so try to find it.
We're in the last days of Rome I fear, but with wifi.
intrepidity
(7,743 posts)Talk about experience as a correlate to age. Talk about the years and years of Biden's experience in goverment and compare and contrast that with how Trump spent those years.
Everyone can relate to the issue of how valuable experience is, and how it matters what one has been doing for the past forty or fifty years.
That's how you highlight the collosal difference between these two candidates, while still acknowledging their ages. In Biden's case, it's an asset, because those years were filled with experience governing. In Trump's case, it's a liability, because his years were spent serving only himself. "Muscle Memory" is a real thing, and if our President has to rely on it simetimes, I'd much rather it be from Biden than the likes of Trump.
Cha
(302,898 posts)MorbidButterflyTat
(2,474 posts)"Face it. Age is an issue. Biden is old. So is Slobby."
WTAF. It's as if January 6th, 91 felonies, sucking up to Putin, screaming his intentions to destroy democracy loud and clear...are nothing. No big deal. Because Prez Biden IS OLD.
I watched the first few minutes of Jon, I was looking forward to it. When he went into embarrassing gyrations over our president leaving the podium after being insulted - AGAIN - by incompetent press, then returning to it to address the insult, it made me SICK.
We have to reach out to MAGAts...they don't make fun of themselves, so we should make fun of ourselves so they can see the light....NO. FUCK NO.
I guess he's forgotten his crocodile tears over 9/11 first responders, riding a bus from NY and being totally ignored by Moscow Mitch, the filthy coward. Cuz Prez Biden is OLD.
FUCK NO.
Cha
(302,898 posts)MorbidButterflyTat
(2,474 posts)Cuthbert Allgood
(5,151 posts)for the Millennial or Gen Z take on the age of Biden/Trump. If you can't handle what the Baby Boomer Stewart has to say, don't talk to any youths.
Cha
(302,898 posts)IcyPeas
(22,328 posts)Cha
(302,898 posts)Mike Nelson
(10,211 posts)... I think there was a clear, positive winner in the age laugh wars - Biden. Trump got more negative-based laughs. I guess I would say Jon Stewart tilts toward Biden. In my opinion, that's not difficult to do... because Trump is Trump. He's just a loser.
LenaBaby61
(6,991 posts)Tuesday, February 13, 2024 at 9:40:36a PST
WTF, Jon Stewart?
I was a huge fan of Jon Stewart on the Daily Show. His style of attacking Republican politicians and other right-wing nuts was basic and perfecthe quoted them, and then brought the receipts in the form of video showing how wrong/stupid/dishonest theyd been. Jon did his homework. As far as Im concerned, he showed exactly how to respond to the crazies.
So I was really looking forward to his part-time return last night. Imagine my disappointment when he spent half the show on a classic both sides attack on the age and competence of both Joe Biden and Donald Trump. Jons audience is of course heavily skewed toward Democrats, and his vicious "reporting on Biden is unlikely to convince any of them to vote for Trump. But if he induces any voters to just stay home, or vote for a third party, or cast no vote for President, that amounts to supporting Trump.
Concerns about Pres. Bidens age and faculties are not in themselves illegitimate. If we were in a contested primary, with other progressive Dems running against Mr. Biden, fine. But we all know, and Stewart acknowledged, that the candidates are already in place. Theres only one choiceBiden or Trump, and anything less than full support of Biden is support of Trump. There is absolutely no issue on which Trump is better than or even as good as Biden for progressives.
I simply cannot imagine what the hell Stewart was trying to do. He even had Jordan Klepper do a mock attack on him, which included referring to his both-siderism in the Bush v. Gore election, so its not as if Stewart was unaware of the criticism he was likely to draw.
Its a helluva drag when your idols show they have feet of clay.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2024/2/13/2223234/-WTF-Jon-Stewart?pm_campaign=front_page&pm_source=trending&pm_medium=web
JoseBalow
(4,448 posts)bigtree
(88,909 posts)...and it blew up like a Chapelle SNL monolouge.
Jirel
(2,184 posts)He also came back to be a good voice and keep the show from going bad directions, or even dying. But he didnt come back to only be a rah-rah for the Democratic Party, even though he clearly goes after the right hard. Like everyone else with a brain, he has nuanced ideas, and they are going to come through in his satire and commentary. The fact that some feel threatening in a world full of bad news isnt a problem. The problem is out there, and hes talking about how to fix it. Before whomping up on JS, how about addressing the elephant in the room that the rethugs have made Bidens age a talking point, and its being stirred into a top story everywhere in the media, and the Biden campaign isnt exactly handling it. That was, in the end, JSs point.
bigtree
(88,909 posts)...how about just talking about something else?
I'd take my cues from the Biden campaign who took the exoneration, said their peace about the slurs and lies in the report, and went back to talking about Trump, the president's historicly successful record of accomplishments and achievements, and what they believe voters should be concerned about.
Link to tweet
I find arguments that we need to focus and grind about this on the president's and his campaign's behalf weird and detached.
Who asked for that? Really, who in the Biden campaign asked for people to anguish and grouse about what someone says about his age?
Link to tweet
If I was really concerned about some need to keep talking about it, I'd follow the campaign and the president, instead of some amateur internet volunteer campaign that supposes it knows better than the real one.
Link to tweet
betsuni
(27,098 posts)Cha
(302,898 posts)betsuni
(27,098 posts)magicarpet
(15,857 posts)... or the Daily Show as it seeks to fill Noah's former slot.
With election 2024 and the clear and present danger of trDUMP re-entering the White House. It is nice to have Jon Stewart anchor the Daily Show on Mondays to throw some barbs Smelvis' way.
Stewart, in the proper mood, can become quite pungent and poignant when it comes to dealing with clowns such as former President Pantload.
We need all the help we can get to slay this Fascists fire breathing dragon. Let's not Al Franken Jon Stewart, we need gladiators willing to do battle against Smelvise and his Fascist ilk.
The Blue Flower
(5,582 posts)And a total turnoff. Not to mention stupid. The experience and hard-won wisdom of 50 years in politics are the reason why Biden has succeeded so well for Americans. If jon can't do any better, he's lost me. And I was a huge fan at one time.
rdchili96
(175 posts)This sounds pretty ageist to me....
brush
(56,367 posts)His humor from that time doesn't work in this time.
Equating crook and dementia-adjacent trump with coherent and capable Joe Biden is horrid.
He's blown it.
anglesphere
(186 posts)I just logged in here after a decade away and I hope you're all getting along here and being nice to one another.