Netanyahu says that those who say he is committing a war crime by bombing and starving the civilians of Gaza.....

[MMBeilis]

Last edited Fri Nov 22, 2024, 06:51 PM - Edit history (1)

........and then he goes on to say that they are antisemitic. This claim of antisemitic-ism ignores the reality that bombing and starving the people of Gaza IS a war crime, even when done in one's own self-defense.

[claudette]

1. Isn't it

possible that people may believe killing and starving innocent Palestinians is anti-Muslim and anti-Christian?

[no_hypocrisy]

2. In deductive logic, this maneuver is called "Begging the Question".

A premise is introduced, and you ignore it and respond with a non-sequitur for the purpose of disproving/invalidating it.

Not to mention it's broadly expanding the definition of antisemitism to the point where it makes no sense. If any other non-Jewish state did the same things, it wouldn't be antisemitic; it would be war crimes.

[Voltaire2]

7. Uh no that is not begging the question

The fallacy of begging the question occurs when an argument's premises assume the truth of the conclusion, instead of supporting it. In other words, you assume without proof the stand/position, or a significant part of the stand, that is in question. Begging the question is also called arguing in a circle.

https://www.txst.edu/philosophy/resources/fallacy-definitions/Begging-the-Question.html

[no_hypocrisy]

8. Point taken.

What is the name of the fallacy I described?

[ananda]

9. Straw man

The Straw Man Fallacy. This fallacy occurs when your opponent over-simplifies or misrepresents your argument (ie, setting up a "straw man&quot to make it ...

[Voltaire2]

11. It is more a bit of non-sequitur and ad hominem

Or to put it simply: it is a ‘kill the messenger’ attack.

It is irrelevant to the truth of the assertion that the person making the assertion is antisemitic. However by attacking the character of the claimant the discussion is derailed.

[brush]

52. Agreed. Warmonger Netanyahu calls anyone criticizing his action an anti-semite.

Last edited Mon Dec 2, 2024, 02:43 PM - Edit history (1)

He can spout that all he wants. He's a war criminal.

[B.See]

54. It's the kind of

smoke and mirrors typical of authoritarians who want people looking the other way.

[The_REAL_Ecumenist]

3. Not to mention that people who are Arabs ARE SEMITES!! AND...what part of things does he NOT understand that YOU DON'T

PURPOSELY BOMB, MAIM & KILL INNOCENT CHILDREN? WTAF?!! He's also responsible for the lives of the first responders who DIED as a result of what HIS EVIL ASS DID! We know that he's on the run, like his Orangish, adjudicated RAPIST, running from the laws he broke and at LEAST 85% of Israelis DO NOT agree that he's murdering INNOCENTS in their names! However, Karma is the ultimate skip tracer and there's never been a stalker that could best her ass...She's catching up with the 2 of them and any other creep that agrees with the abominable crimes against humanity.

[sarisataka]

19. When you apply the term Semitic to Jews and Arabs as an ethnicity

You are promoting the ideas of the Göttingen school of history

The Göttingen school of history was a group of historians associated with a particular style of historiography located at the University of Göttingen in the late 18th century.[1]

The University of Göttingen was the original centre of the "Geschichtswissenschaft" or history as an academic discipline, and became a major centre for globally-orientated anthropology.[2] The school itself was one of the newest universities in Europe, having been founded in 1734 by Gerlach Adolph von Münchhausen, and the first to include the obligation to conduct and publish research alongside lecturing.[3] The historians of this school sought to write a universal history by combining the critical methods of Jean Mabillon with that of the philosophical historians such as Voltaire and Edward Gibbon.[4]

This group of historians played an important role in creating a scientific basis for historical research,[5] and were also responsible for coining two fundamental groups of terminologies in scientific racism:

Blumenbach and Meiners's color terminology for race: Caucasian or white race; Mongolian or yellow race; Malayan or brown race; Negroid or black race; and American or red race;[6]
Gatterer, Schlözer and Eichhorn's Biblical terminology for race: Semitic, Hamitic and Japhetic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6ttingen_school_of_history

Their racist ideas were developed and expanded by others into the concept of an "Aryan" race. The Semites (and others) became the Untermensch

"Antisemitism" is a 19th century term which quickly became a euphemism for "Jew hate" in Germany.

Due to the root word Semite, the term is prone to being invoked as a misnomer by those who incorrectly assert (in an etymological fallacy) that it refers to racist hatred directed at "Semitic people" in spite of the fact that this grouping is an obsolete historical race concept. Likewise, such usage is erroneous; the compound word antisemitismus was first used in print in Germany in 1879[19] as a "scientific-sounding term" for Judenhass (lit "Jew-hatred'),[20][21][22][23][24] and it has since been used to refer to anti-Jewish sentiment alone.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism

[soandso]

33. The average person isn't going to know all that

When it comes to criticizing Israel, that word is used to shut people up.

?si=gHnoHIJXmhAf6ZjH&t=103

[MMBeilis]

57. This should be watched by everyone who has an opinion about Israel and the Palestinians, especially the apologists....

.....with the strongest opinions.

[Cirsium]

28. No

Antisemitism is not referring to Semite peoples.

Antisemitism is the prejudice against or hatred of Jewish people. It is a form of bigotry and racism. For centuries, antisemites have demonized and dehumanized Jews by spreading antisemitic tropes, stereotypes, and conspiracy theories.

Antisemitism is a set of hateful beliefs and ideas about Jews and the Jewish religion, Judaism. It is based on old and widespread prejudices. However, the word “antisemitism” is much newer. It was coined in German as “Antisemitismus” in the late 1800s. In English, antisemitism is sometimes spelled “anti-semitism,” “anti-Semitism,” or “anti semitism.”
...
Antisemitism has its roots in the anti-Judaism of ancient times and early Christianity. Many stereotypes and conspiracies about Jews can be traced back to early and medieval Christian teachings and practices. Early Christians taught that Christianity had replaced Judaism and that Jews were no longer God’s chosen people. They claimed that Jews were stubborn and blind to the truth because they did not accept Jesus as the Messiah. These ideas shaped Christians’ mistrust and animosity toward Jews for many centuries.

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/antisemitism

[JoseBalow]

37. People who make that "semite" point are usually antisemites

I am yet to see a case in which they are not. They just don't like being labeled antisemitic, so they argue the semantics of it. It's a pretty reliable tell.

[The_REAL_Ecumenist]

47. So, are you telling me that I'M AN ANTISEMITE? ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?!! YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW ME!!

Before you say anything about my post count...I've been here since 2005 but had the bad taste to be diagnosed with "terminal cancer" in 2011 & forgot my password from chemo brain. Do a search for Ecumenist, my original Username.

[canuckledragger]

59. I find that people that throw out that 'anti semite' tripe

Are usually trying to weaponize the term to deflect any attention away from Bibi's war crimes and genocide.

[The_REAL_Ecumenist]

46. I DON'T care what you THINK it applies to...We've ALL heard the pejoratives calling people who are Arab OR have Arabic

blood: "Sand N*ggers, Towel Heads, Camel Jockeys, ad nauseum. How do I know? I have Arab blood, DIRECT line from the Gulf on my maternal side. I have heard these vile things ALL MY LIFE and MUCH worse. I am Brown skinned and identify as black but alot of people do not know that there are BLACK ARABS. I also know about the Antisemitism against Jews as I was raised in a community that included many survivors of the Shoah, was named after a Polish Jew who was a concert pianist & survived Bergen-Belsen & Auschwitz. I grew up with men and women who STILL HAD THEIR TATTOOS from that horrific time, some carrying scars from the beatings, lost toes, noses, fingers from srostbite and gangrene. Sobibor, Chelmno, Arbeitsdor, Buchenwald, Vaivara, Sachsenhausen, Birkenau, Ravensbruck...and I could go on forever. I listened and learned at their feet. So, DON'T YOU TELL ME what I know and HAVE LIVED!!!!!
I don't give a f*ck what a book says because these horrors happened to REAL PEOPLE, JEWS, (Ashkenazi, Landino, Mizrahi, Sephardic & Falasha), Saying that AntiSemitism ONLY applies to Jews even though Semitic peoples have had issues throughouot time is like saying Black people can't be racist because we're black and don't have the same power balance. BULLSHIT!!
GTFOHWTS

[Cirsium]

56. I know

I have spent much time over decades in the Arabic speaking community in Detroit. I am well aware of the vicious bigotry that exists.

The fact that the term in English - antisemitism - means hatred against Jews does not mean that bigotry against Arabic speaking people does not exist.

Antisemitism should never be used as an excuse for the brutality of the Israeli government against the Palestinian people in the occupied territories.

There is a 100+ year history of the western powers committing horrific abuses against the Arabic speaking peoples and denying them self-determination, for the purpose of controlling the oil reserves. Feudal lords friendly to the West have been installed and propped up and armed, while the progressive, educated, urban and agricultural Arabic people have been relentlessly attacked and their communities undermined and destroyed.

[electric_blue68]

61. No doubt that Bibi is commiting war crimes. No doubt that Hamas & Hezbolla are...

terrorist groups.

While Arabs are Semites, at least that's what's been generally said; I've almost never heard them refered to in this manner.

I've rarely even heard Jews reffered to as "Semites", only by the negative appelation of anti-semite/anti-semitic, etc against them.

I hope I'm clear on that.
While your point is true, imho, it's irrelevant.

[Blue Full Moon]

4. Palestinians are semitic. So he's being antisemitic.

[Voltaire2]

12. In a curious evolution of language

The term antisemitic has become ‘anti semitic people who are culturally Jewish’.

It is understood that the term does not apply to Palestinians, for example, even though many such people have distant Jewish ancestors.

[Mossfern]

16. Actually ......

"Antisemitism" was originally coined to mean Jewish people.

The term anti-Semitism was coined in 1879 by the German agitator Wilhelm Marr to designate the anti-Jewish campaigns underway in central Europe at that time. Nazi anti-Semitism, which culminated in the Holocaust, had a racist dimension in that it targeted Jews because of their supposed biological characteristics

https://www.britannica.com/topic/anti-Semitism

[Blue Full Moon]

22. They have the same DNA. Religion is what split them.

[multigraincracker]

36. There are more genetic differences within

those two groups than difference between those two groups. Race is an invalid concept, there is only one race, the human race.

[malaise]

25. I am anti-Zionist

These are war crimes

[multigraincracker]

66. Right you are. History of Zionist Terrorism.

Zionist political violence - Wikipedia
Aftermath of the King David Hotel bombing, 1946. Zionist political violence refers to acts of violence or terrorism committed by Zionists in support of establishing and maintaining a Jewish state in Palestine. These actions have been carried out by individuals, paramilitary groups, and the Israeli government,

[sarisataka]

20. You might want to avoid applying the racist term semitic to the Palestinians

https://democraticunderground.com/100219751732#post19

[MMBeilis]

24. This may be D.U.'s original "opening a can of worms".

[Macrophylla]

5. Ok

What else did anyone expect?
That he would acknowledge that he is a war criminal?

[MMBeilis]

40. Of course not. Regarding Netanyahu our expectations are limited to more arrogance and self righteous and nothing more.

[Aussie105]

6. Guess I'm anti-Semitic then.

If that is the definition Bibi wants to use for anyone who doesn't agree with him.

I thought I was just being a humanitarian, but I guess I was wrong.

The term 'anti-Semitic', being so overused to mean 'complaining about Israeli action' holds no meaning anymore.

How many countries is it now where Bibi would be arrested if he got off a plane there? I've lost count.

[Rigpa108]

34. "The term 'anti-Semitic', being so overused to mean 'complaining about Israeli action' holds no meaning anymore."

I asked the following question in a separate thread. The answer was the sound of crickets.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=19757475

[2naSalit]

10. Out of the same playbook...

He is dismantling a term; antisemitism. Just as the magat clan misuse terms to disqualify them by applying them to anything and all things, the word loses meaning. This is what bibi is doing with the term antisemitism.

[Autumn]

13. Okay so that makes me antisemitic. I agree with the ICC, what he has done is war crimes.

I'm in very good company.

[malaise]

26. Add me

Rec

[peregrinus]

14. The boy who cried wolf

Nobody believes him

[Zeitghost]

15. They are

Or at least they are lapping up the antisemitic propaganda being spread and regurgitating it.

[Iggo]

17. Judging war crimes based on the ethnicity of the perpetrator is fucking stupid.

[sarisataka]

21. It that true? Look at all of the warrants for the perpetrators of the genocide in Sudan...

Oh, now I see it

[tritsofme]

18. Let's not forget there was a warrant for Ibrahim Al-Masri too, I hear he is just broken up in pieces that he won't

able to attend the trial!

[yardwork]

23. It's too late to persuade anybody.

People who care about human rights had the opportunity to help elect Harris, and then they would have had four years to pressure her administration.

Instead, they helped elect Trump. The Muslim Arab communities in Michigan, Pennsylvania and other swing states voted against Harris. They bragged about it. Their organizations tweeted "We want you (Democrats) to know it was us."

They bought Trump. They own him.

[Eko]

29. White Christians voted overwhemlingly for dump also.

So eff all them as well right?

[Mosby]

30. Thats not true

But it is interesting that Blacks and Jews overwhelmingly voted for Harris.

[Eko]

32. Huh.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/08/30/most-white-americans-who-regularly-attend-worship-services-voted-for-trump-in-2020/

[sakabatou]

27. Bibi's sweeping generalization is a sweeping fail

[MMBeilis]

43. Absolutely true. The entire Middle East conflict is built upon sweeping generalizations.

[uponit7771]

31. Yep, "..even when done in one's own self-defense.." like Coates said, there is no justification for apartheid

[ZonkerHarris]

35. How convenient.

[Lunabell]

38. Yeah, you can't criticize bibi or the atrocities against Palestinians

without being called antisemitic by a lot of people. And yes, the reverse is true of criticizing hamas or other Palestinian political factions without being called Islamophobic by a lot of people. I don't give them any mind because I know what's in my heart.

[Xolodno]

39. The irony of his statement.

Palestinians and Jews are all related. I dub it the longest civil war in history.

Genetic studies and studies of last name origins show that they are one people. What seldom anyone else knows, the Romans did not eject all the Jews in the area, only in the province of Judah, which is probably a fifth of what the country is today. Those in Samaria, Gallilee, etc. were left alone and some villages in Judah were left untouched because the Romans still needed them to provide foodstuffs.

Over time, many Jews converted to Islam due to the similarity of the religions and Muslims were protecting the Jews from those damn blood thirsty Christians. It's only in recent history that things have changed due to the rise Wahabism.

The Caananites, it turns out all migrated north and form what is present day Lebanon. Bibi is killing his own people. Of course, you tell that to some Israelites or Palestinians, it would be like calling an Iranian an Arab, you'll wake up in the hospital after coming out of your Coma.

[soandso]

48. Some may share ancestors

but far from all. Ashkenazi Jews are not from the middle east. Their ancestors converted to Judaism about 900 years ago. I read an article, recently, about Palestinians sharing DNA links to ancient Italians, which I found super interesting. The article said the Palestinians have been where they are for now for 3000 years.

[Xolodno]

49. Let's not forget the Khazars...

...or Subbotniki from Russia (who are obvious Russians). And some of the decendents are the most hard core anti-Palestinians. Go figure.

I don't see the Israeli-Palestinian issue as an ethnic issue, to me, its a religion and patch of dirt issue. An issue that should be tossed into the dust heap of history. What I find disturbing, you can find Rabbi's helping Palestinians with thier crop yields of olives and some jerk from a nearby settlement, completely masked trying to stab him for doing so.

What is comical, Church of the Holy Sepulchre. You have an Islamic family in control of it, that often has to call Jewish police to break up fights between the Catholics and Orthodox. If you wrote this down in a book, people would think it was fiction, of course, its not.

I'm a heretic, don't place value on any piece of real estate as holy.

[soandso]

53. Same people

Khazars are the ones who converted.

Yes, I agree about holy land. A land can have historical significance but it's not "holy", especially when drenched in blood from people fighting over it.

[MMBeilis]

41. Interesting that my original post gets lost in a bunch of bullshit (my words) about who is a semite. We know....

....What he means.

[Jack Valentino]

42. Netanyahu's actions STRENGTHEN anti-semitism, worldwide.

[Celerity]

50. thread winner

[enid602]

51. Rich

The irony is that Gazans are semites, but Netanyahu is outraged and feels that his critics are antisemitic.

[soandso]

55. I wonder what the excuse for this will be

A ten-year-old Palestinian girl has allegedly been shot in the chest by IDF forces near the United Nations office in Gaza , following the killing of four aid workers in an Israeli strike on Saturday. A photograph shows the child lying on the floor, surrounded by UN workers, after she was shot while crossing an Israeli checkpoint. The girl was stabilised by UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) workers before being taken to a hospital.

https://headtopics.com/uk/ten-year-old-palestinian-girl-allegedly-shot-near-un-office-62813741

[Bettie]

58. They will say "She was Hamas"

and no one with any power will care that a ten year old child is dead.

[Iggo]

60. Not just Netanyahu. (n/t)

[chouchou]

62. When you wake up a hibernating big Bear and then, the pissed-off bear starts kicking your ass...

...you'll get little sympathy from many people. I'm one of them.

[MMBeilis]

63. Hibernating? Every day West Bank settlers mistreat Palestinian arabs. You did get.....

.....the part about a big bear (bully) right though.

[chouchou]

65. Hamas has been at their throat fo generations. Isreal is fed up with the Up-the-population-until-we-take-over-everything

[MMBeilis]

67. Again, the settler families are doing their part having huge families and the government is subsidizing them.

[Jit423]

64. This term, antisemitic-ism is over used and losing the meaning it once had. It not stands for

re-frame the issue and stop any criticism of what Israel is doing now.