Anyone else pissed at Ralph Nader?

[Renew Deal]

If Nader didn't mislead people about Gore and the Democratic Party, 9/11 and the Iraq War wouldn't have happened because Bush wouldn't have been elected.

[3catwoman3]

1. Have been for years.

[TommieMommy]

2. So true

[Silent Type]

3. Hope we've learned something about handling 3rd Party candidates.

[FemDemERA]

40. Sadly, I don't think we have

[BlueKentuckyGirl]

67. I agree. Third party candidates sure hurt us in the last election.

Per The American Presidency Project, the final count was as follows. The "others" accounted for enough votes to give Harris-Walz the majority of popular votes. Of course, it probably wouldn't have changed the Electoral College vote, which is why the Electoral College needs to go bye-bye.

Party Nominees Electoral Vote Popular Vote
Presidential Vice Presidential
Democratic Kamala Harris Tim Walz 226 42% 75,019,230 48.34%
Republican Donald J. Trump J.D. Vance 312 58% 77,303,568 49.81%
Various Others 0 0 % 2,878,359 1.85%
Last update: 12/31/2024

[cab67]

65. The people I know who voted for Jill Stein are still saying "We told you so!"

To us. Which is backwards.

As far as they're concerned, support by Democratic politicians for Israel is too great a sin to look at the greater whole.

[Torchlight]

4. I blame Lucy

if that Australopithecus afarensis hadn't zigged when she oughta zagged, we'd all be on easy street, sippin' beverages of choice on any one of the Outer Rim worlds. Pretty sure she voted for Warren G. Harding, too.

[Aristus]

5. Never stopped.

The entire 21st Century in the U.S. so far has been a shitshow because of his "There's no difference between the two major political parties" jive. Even in 2000, that was jarringly untrue. If he had publicly supported Al Gore in 2000, we would have had a Democrat in office from 2001-2009. And this awful, horrible century would have been placed on a much better course, no matter what the out-of-power Republicans in that timeline threw at Al Gore.

The putrid, dribbling ass-lesions who thought they were voting for a drinking buddy instead of a President get the blame, too. I haven't forgiven or forgotten those drunken "I just want a feller I can have a beer with" dickheads; and never will.

[3catwoman3]

47. I want someone in the Oval Office who is a lot smarter...

…than I am.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

6. RFK is a tool of Bannon/TFG. I remember Nader being used by Rove to defeat Al Gore

I will never forgive Nader. Rove funded Nader in 2000 and 2004 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-zuesse/ralph-nader-was-indispens_b_4235065.html

Furthermore, Karl Rove and the Republican Party knew this, and so they nurtured and crucially assisted Nader’s campaigns, both in 2000 and in 2004. On 27 October 2000, the AP’s Laura Meckler headlined “GOP Group To Air Pro-Nader TV Ads.” She opened: “Hoping to boost Ralph Nader in states where he is threatening to hurt Al Gore, a Republican group is launching TV ads featuring Nader attacking the vice president [Mr. Gore]. ... ‘Al Gore is suffering from election year delusion if he thinks his record on the environment is anything to be proud of,’ Nader says [in the commercial]. An announcer interjects: ‘What’s Al Gore’s real record?’ Nader says: ‘Eight years of principles betrayed and promises broken.’” Meckler’s report continued: “A spokeswoman for the Green Party nominee said that his campaign had no control over what other organizations do with Nader’s speeches.” Bush’s people - the group sponsoring this particular ad happened to be the Republican Leadership Council - knew exactly what they were doing, even though the liberal suckers who voted so carelessly for Ralph Nader obviously did not. Anyone who drives a car the way those liberal fools voted, faces charges of criminal negligence, at the very least. But this time, the entire nation crashed as a result; not merely a single car.....

On July 9th, the San Francisco Chronicle headlined “GOP Doners Funding Nader: Bush Supporters Give Independent’s Bid a Financial Lift,” and reported that the Nader campaign “has received a recent windfall of contributions from deep-pocketed Republicans with a history of big contributions to the party,” according to “an analysis of federal records.” Perhaps these contributors were Ambassador Egan’s other friends. Mr. Egan’s wife was now listed among the Nader contributors. Another listed was “Nijad Fares, a Houston businessman, who donated $200,000 to the Bush inaugural committee and who donated $2,000 each to the Nader effort and the Bush campaign this year.” Furthermore, Ari Berman reported 7 October 2004 at the Nation, under “Swift Boat Veterans for Nader,” that some major right-wing funders of a Republican smear campaign against Senator John Kerry’s Vietnam service contributed also $13,500 to the Nader campaign, and that “the Republican Party of Michigan gathered ninety percent of Nader’s signatures in their state” (90%!) to place Nader on the ballot so Bush could win that swing state’s 17 electoral votes. Clearly, the word had gone out to Bush’s big contributors: Help Ralphie boy! In fact, on 15 September 2005, John DiStaso of the Manchester Union-Leader, reported that, “A year ago, as the Presidential general election campaign raged in battleground state New Hampshire, consumer advocate Ralph Nader found his way onto the ballot, with the help of veteran Republican strategist David Carney and the Carney-owned Norway Hill Associates consulting firm.”

It was obvious, based upon the 2000 election results, that a dollar contributed to Nader in the 2004 contest would probably be a more effective way to achieve a Bush win against Kerry in the U.S. Presidential election than were perhaps even ten dollars contributed to Bush. This was a way of peeling crucial votes off from Bush’s real opponent - votes that otherwise would have gone to the Democrat. That’s why the smartest Republican money in the 2004 Presidential election was actually going to Nader, even more so than to Bush himself: these indirect Bush contributions provided by far the biggest bang for the right-wing buck.

[William769]

7. Wouldof could0f shouldof.

[Gore1FL]

8. I dislike all 3rd-Party candidates for president.

Someone running like that disqualifies themselves due to their lack-of-understanding of how our government works.


We didn't lose in 2000 because of Nader. We lost in 2000 because there was a coup.

[wryter2000]

9. Perpetually

And a bunch more people who are supposedly on our side. I gather Eddie Glaude is up to his old tricks. So disappointing, especially because he's brilliant.

[33taw]

10. Hard to say if 9/11 would not have happened, but the response would have been different.

[BannonsLiver]

11. Oh yeah. For sure.

He’s just as worthless as Garland, Comey and the Roberts court.

[stillcool]

12. never been pissed

Gore won. The Supreme Court gave the election to Bush, not Ralph Nader.

[elleng]

41. Right.

Thanks

[leftstreet]

13. Nader forced the Supreme Court to make Bush POTUS?

This I didn't know

[SocialDemocrat61]

68. If not for Nader

the Supreme Court never would have been in a position to decide the election.

[Chemical Bill]

73. If Florida Sec of State Katherine Harris hadn't...

purged 54,000 voters from Democratic districts we would have had a Gore runaway in Florida.

Four million nationwide were purged in 2024, BTW.

[SocialDemocrat61]

76. Also true

Two things can both be true.

[Nonnia Bisnez]

69. Watch it.

Going against conventional wisdom here could lead to sanctions.

[unblock]

14. While we're all directing anger at a progressive icon, let's remember

that shrub and the felonious five stole the election for shrub. A media consortium (led by the NYTimes, I think) later went through the ballots and determined that under almost any combination of recount rules, gore won Florida and therefore the electoral college.

Shrub only won because the Supreme Court bizarrely ordered a halt to the recount and ordered Florida to certify the arbitrarily halted recount as final under the bizarre logic that more recount would violate equal protection because recounts weee don't differently in different counties (largely because they used different voting technologies in different counties, but the Supreme Court didn't find an equal protection problem with that).

Also remember that the republicans who controlled the Florida legislature had announced that they would invalidate the election, and either certify the shrub electors by an act of the legislature or send no electors, throwing the election into the house

Also remember that republicans in the house had announced that they would invalidate any gore electors from Florida, and either way the election got thrown into the house, they would elect shrub.

The fix was in, one way or another.

I disagree with nader's strategy of running in the first place, but I m really not sure things would have played out differently.

And even if we did get gore , who's to say we wouldn't have had had shrub for 8 years anyway, just delayed? One thing for sure, with hate radio and foxnews unopposed, we'd have continued down this road to fascism regardless.

[BootinUp]

15. Nader!!

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

16. I've been pissed at him since he dissed the fine Corvair automobile.

But I don't think he really caused 9/11.

And how the hell did Eisenhower defeat Adlai Stevenson?

[Polybius]

18. Not a fan of Ike?

Probably the last good Republican President.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

20. Just kidding. And, I was too young to vote in that one anyway.

Ike did give us the Interstate Highway System, so there's that. Such a thing would never make it through today's Congress.

I guess I don't see the value in re-arguing "ancient" presidential election outcomes. We need to find new means of communication and new candidates to get post-Trump MAGAs out of the White House.

[MIButterfly]

25. That what my mother used to say.

The last good Republican was Eisenhower.

[marybourg]

22. Are you kidding? Ike was the Supreme Allied Commander and a deified war hero. He was popular

even among Democrats. Stevenson was a “liberal” and an “intellectual”

[czarjak]

34. He was a war hero until Little Rock.

At least according to my Jim Crow heritage. Integrating public schools was a bridge too far. The Civil Rights Act & Voting Rights Act were the final nails in the coffin. That's why poor Southern Democrats turned Republican. Racism. The Order Of The Day

[wolfie001]

52. And to this very day, all of their teeth fall out

They've really come far, those poor white folk.

[wolfie001]

50. This thread gives off 'Twilight Zone' vibes

[Chemical Bill]

74. Gore didn't invent the Internet, either.

But he made sure that funding for the Internet was passed by Congress.

[Polybius]

17. In this timeline, I wonder who the Democratic nominee would be in 2008

Hard to say. We may have still gotten Trump in 2016 though.

[markodochartaigh]

19. While I understand your subtext

that at this point in US history as democracy itself is in danger the Democratic party needs to maintain formation in our circular firing squad; I don't understand why Nader is to be blamed for Republicans in Florida paying a private company to disenfranchise thousands of mostly Black voters, for the Brooks Brothers riot, or for the supreme court stopping the vote count to choose the president.



https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/how-the-2000-election-in-florida-led-to-a-new-wave-of-voter-disenfranchisement/

[ImNotGod]

21. I blame spiderman. nt

[mcar]

23. I am

He also promised to not campaign in swing states like Florida (at that time). He lied about that too.

[John1956PA]

24. I was watching "Politically Incorrect" when Maher endorsed Nader.

Maher said of G. W. Bush, "You suck." And then he said, "Gore, you're just as bad."

No one knows how many, if any, would-be Gore voters in Florida decided to vote for Nader because of remarks like Maher's. It could be that Dems and Independents who soured on Gore would have simply stayed home rather than casting their protest votes for Nader.

[MIButterfly]

28. I was watching "Politically Incorrect" when Bill Maher and Michael Moore both got down on their knees and

Last edited Tue Jun 10, 2025, 02:01 PM - Edit history (1)

BEGGED Ralph Nader not to run again. Maybe it was in 2004, after Dubya's first term?

[betsuni]

45. He's apologized many times, said he learned his lesson and never voted third party again.

Seems enough people learned the lesson for the 2020 election but are forgetting.

[wolfie001]

53. "Hillary's got this"

"I don't even have to show up." times about 10 million people.

[Klarkashton]

26. He has some podcast, if you need to get some sleep

Try and give it a listen.

It's where RFK Jr gets all his conspiracy ideas.

[Nigrum Cattus]

27. No, that was 25 years ago !

Stop talking about what coulda happened.
We need to focus on the repug enemy only !

[lapfog_1]

29. I'm pissed at Billy Joel

for that "We didn't start the fire" bullshit.

I understand he is too.

[twodogsbarking]

30. Corvair was my first car. It was smokin'. Just when you ran the heater. Put the windows down or you die.

[Shrek]

31. Blame the voters

Nader didn't force anyone to vote for him.

[LisaM]

32. Yes, and people who voted for him, too.

And the Green Party, because they ran him against one of the greenest candidates of all time.

[leftstreet]

38. +1

[synni]

35. I got pissed off at him back in the 1960s

His hysteria about the Corvair was ridiculous, considering how many other more dangerous cars have been on the road.

[UnderThisLaw]

48. Interesting

After hearing so much about Nader’s book, I found it and read it. Only one chapter directly dealt with the corvair. I always found the misunderstanding about that to border on hysteria

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

36. Is he still alive?

The last I heard of him he was at a Cisco Systems shareholder meeting complaining his dividend was too low.

[mr715]

37. Yeah

Remember how both parties were the same?

Remember that pesky 9/11 event that was probably completely preventable?

Remember how Donald Trump wanted to rebuild the WTC in gold facade, just 1 story higher?

Sigh.

[MineralMan]

39. Yes, and there would still be Corvairs at your Chevy dealer, too.

What an asshole!

[Cirsium]

42. Jim Hightower

How Florida Democrats torpedoed Gore

Nader only drew 24,000 Democrats to his cause, yet 308,000 Democrats voted for Bush. Hello. If Gore had taken even 1 percent of these Democrats from Bush, Nader's votes wouldn't have mattered. Second, liberals. Sheesh. Gore lost 191,000 self-described liberals to Bush, compared to less than 34,000 who voted for Nader.

...

Some liberals noted that Bush actually has proposed less of an increase in the Pentagon's already-bloated budget than Gore did, and some were so angered by the vice president's atrocious record of selling out working families, environmentalists and farmers that they wanted to give him the double-whammy of taking a vote from him and giving it to Bush. In any event, Gore failed to close the deal with these voters -- a fact that has nothing to do with Nader.

There are plenty of other points that can be made about Gore's loss, including the fact that if he'd carried his own state of Tennessee (where Nader was not a factor), all of this would be moot. But the real need is for progressives (whether Gore-backers, Naderites or neither) to get beyond this presidential election and get down to the real business of building a long-term, grass-roots movement that taps into the latent power of more than 100 million discarded voters. If we succeed at that, we can produce a historic political realignment, creating both politics that people can be proud of and a country with a bright, democratic future.

https://www.salon.com/2000/11/28/hightower/

[progressoid]

55. Rec.

[jls4561]

43. I seriously considered voting for Nader. I remember sitting in the local deli perusing my sample ballot.

The part of me that likes the idea of subverting the dominant paradigm said Nader, but the part of me that asks who could run the country better definitely went for Gore. I voted for Gore.

During the 2016 election, I voted for Pete Buttigieg in the primary. I loved the idea of voting for a woman, and odds were that Hillary would win the primary, but I voted for Pete because he just seemed so damn competent. I love to vote for him again.

[Pris]

58. Just a few samples of Hillary's competence and successes

1. The 1995 fourth world conference on women (the White House was reluctant to have her attend) Hillary the First Lady, spoke about women's rights. She said that Women's Rights Are Human Rights which reframed the conference and emboldened women to return to their home countries and fight.
2. She established the President's Interagency Council on Women in 1995
3. Introduced the phrase "sex trafficking" to the world (it had only been used once by the World Bank) after her conference she and Albright had organized about women in leadership in Austria. Multiple women came to them and said girls were disappearing in villages. Clinton put the weight of the First Lady's office around the topic and what we know of trafficking today has its roots in her work:
https://1997-2001.state.gov/statements/1998/980311.html
4. She had strong influence on the nomination of Ruth Bader Ginsburg for SCOTUS
5. She helped create SCHIP for children: 2007: Sen. Edward M. Kennedy: “The children’s health program wouldn’t be in existence today if we didn’t have Hillary pushing for it from the other end of Pennsylvania Avenue.” [The Washington Post, 10/5/07]
6. She fought for Lily Ledbetter as a key person which led to the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Restoration Act.Ledbetter endorsed Hillary when she ran for president.

https://www.plannedparenthoodaction.org/pressroom/fact-check-hillary-clinton-has-been-champion-for-women-and-families-for-decades
https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/womens-rights-and-opportunity/

[BootinUp]

61. Pete ran in 2019-2020. We both voted for him

[mahatmakanejeeves]

44. Going on to over fifty years now. NT

[Pris]

46. The seatbelts were great. He needed to stay with public safety.

His words hurt Gore, for sure.

[NNadir]

49. Who? Oh...that guy. You have to give him credit. He inspired RFK, worm brain genius, to get fluoride out of...

...out of drinking water.

Is he still alive?

I do believe he said that if nuclear power wasn't banned by 1990 - I think it was that year - there would be a revolution, or something like that.

I always thought Jack T. Ripper was a Nader kind of guy.

I confess about two years ago, a seatbelt and air bag saved my life. Of course, the war in Iraq, which killed more than 100,000 Iraqis is on his hands, as is the destruction of the planetary atmosphere, but all that's trivial if you realize that Al Gore would have appointed John Roberts and Sammy Alito to the Supreme Court, who have served so well at declaring the Constitution of the United States unconstitutional, you kind of understand that Nader understood things perfectly.

Other than those minor points, the seat belt and air bag did save my life.

To steal a line very popular here every morning, but to redirect it:

Is he dead yet?

[Autumn]

51. Nope. I like Nader, he did a lot of good things.

[GP6971]

63. Hi Sunshine! Enjoying your day?

[Torchlight]

72. So, what's your Can-Do strategy?

I'm certain it's serious. Good luck!

[Ping Tung]

56. Nope. But I do have a grudge against whoever invented plastic bubble packaging that requires

a bolt cutter and profanity to open.

[Chemical Bill]

75. Try explosives. n/t

[Wednesdays]

57. I'm pissed at Samuel Tilden, too.

If only he had fought a little harder, Democrats would have won the White House in 1876.

[rubbersole]

60. Gore won. Nader is just a convenient foil.

Caging, voter suppression, Jeb!, the Supreme Court and all the general voting ratfuckery in Florida...W was going to 'win' here come hell or high water. And he did.

PS - Kerry won Ohio while we're at it...

[jg10003]

62. It was the NY Times and the Washington Post that

Trashed Gore. All that nonsense about inventing the internet, discovering Love Canal, Love Story, etc.

[Fiendish Thingy]

64. Not me

There were other factors far more significant in that election.

[H2O Man]

66. No.

Nader played no more of a role than did Buchanan.

[Pinback]

70. Bush ended up with 537 more Florida votes than Gore (not counting the Supreme Court votes to stop the recount).

There were several left/progressive presidential candidates on the 2000 Florida ballot who got more than 537 votes, so you might as well blame any or all of them. But blaming Nader is so convenient and emotionally satisfying. And it lets Gore/Lieberman off the hook.

Post 42 in this thread pretty much sums up my view of the situation.

[Warpy]

71. No more than I'm pissed off at the Libertarians or any other splinter party

or their candidates.

I've saved my fury for Jeb Bush, who refused the full state recount that would have shown Gore to have won the state very narrowly (see the newspaper consortium recount that happened months later), the Brooks Brothers riot of suited up Republican congressional staffers that stopped the recount in Dade County, and the USSC, which prevented any question over a highly questionable set of numbers out of state governed by the candidates fucking BRIOTHER.

Nader didn't cost Gore anything. Nader's votes were never Gore's votes. Without Nader to vote for, his voters would likely have stayed home. Stop misplacing your anger and put it where it belongs: on a corrupt family belonging to a corrupt political party, the latter now the worst threat this country has ever faced.

[creeksneakers2]

77. Now they have that pun David Hogg taking his place.