agnostic102
agnostic102's JournalWhy liberal Muslims,ex Muslims, reformist Muslims dont criticize militant islam
or let me re phrase that.. we actually do.. and thats why were the ones they kill off first. You see, criticizing anything from islam if you live in a islamic country brings either the wrath of the government against you or wrath of your neighbors. What do you think happens when isis moves into your town? or al quida? or the mullahs in iran (as was in my case) you think the first thing they do is behead journalist on tv? Do you know how many innocent muslims were beheaded by isis or killed or sentenced to death like the poet in saudi arabia before this stuff ever gets to the west? Muslims, especially liberal muslims are on the front lines against these crazed lunatics.
A women in afghanistan recently was stomped, beaten, set on fire and for good measure her burnt body was thrown in the river. because she had a dispute with merchants sellers in her town who accused her of insulting the koran. By the way, this women did no such thing. They murdered her based on HEARSAY..
Did you know in irans revolutionary court if you are brought up on charges on apostatsy or any serous crimes the JUDGE is also the prosecutor? let me repeat that.. the JUDGE who has final say on the verdict is ALSO the prosecutor...
Now lets say we get away from the war, extremism, and we make it to the shores of america.. the best thing we can do here is live our lives and try to create a life for ourselves of hard work..small business and family. Then bam.. a terrorist attack happens and now were all suspect. We have to answer for these crazy bastards because our last names match.. or our skin color matches or the way we talk.
Okay back to criticizing militant islam or even islam/religion itself if you happen to be a apostate like me. what am i supposed to do? criticize islam or extreme muslims at a time when fascist people like trump are surging in the polls (atleast within hes party) and come off like i support trump, who basically wants to put a baynoet on my or families back walk us up to the beach and say "good luck swimming back to wherever you came from"
You know whats a great conversation starter or for that matter stopper? At a middle eastern family dinner while discussing politics is? Blurt out " i dont really think israel should be destroyed" want to know how that little gem goes over? You know the MOST politically correct statement that followed in that debate was? "if the jews had picked florida to create a state instead of israel, things would be a lot easier for everyone" That was the nice one i can repeat here.
So now your past the extremists from your home country, The racist stormfronters in this country, one who might win the presidency, the bigoted or ignorant family members in your own family and you have reached the promise land.. Talking with intellectual people, who believe in womens rights, for gay rights, for a womens right to choose. Who champion freedom and progressiveness and your conversation is going great. Finally someone who agrees with you until they dont.. You see you criticized one step to far and now the conversation ends because you are now an islamophobe. Because posting on facebook that marrying women off at the age of 12 or 14 (my mom was married off at 14) should be banned in islamic countries because i consider that rape. The word rape was too much.
Apparently i was being too culturally insensitive against my own culture? so said a facebook female friend from high school whose troubled and hard life of partying, getting a bmw for her 16th birthdayand reining from the hardknock life of newport beach california apparently made her expert on islamic law. You see, she had solidarity after all. Her picture had the french flag draped over it.
So where is my home?
This poet is no different then me. I was just lucky enough to escape. This man is on the front lines. And whose there to save him? who is there to stand shoulder to shoulder with him? Hes fellow muslims hate him and are going to kill him in hes country of saudi arabia. The trump and hes followers want to kick him out if he even did escape and made it here.. and will the poeple in the west change there facebook pictures to hes picture once the wahhabis in saudi arabia murder him? Want to know how much people changing there facebook picture means to you as you are being carted off to the center of town to be beheaded?
This is hes picture if anyone cares.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/23/world/middleeast/saudi-artists-death-sentence-follows-a-string-of-harsh-punishments.html?_r=0
Ex-muslim Here to answer any questions you might have
I wanted to make a thread about my experience growing up in the middle east. What we went through to get to america (as refugees) Going to mosque as a young child. Seeing my first stoning at the age of 7 including hangings while living through the war iran-iraq war in the 1980s.
Its not fully truthful to say i left islam as my experience with it was till i was about 8 years old. And my moms side of the family in iran had for the most part converted out of islam. My mothers great grandfather was a shia mullah who when he heard that a new bahai had moved into town. Picked up a butcher knife to go and slaughter/kill him. The story goes as my great great grandfather went to kill this man he saw that the bahai man was praying. The bahai heard him come in and said to him i know why you are here. Please let me finish my prayers and lets have a conversation. If by the end of it you still want to kill me you can and i wont resist. As the story was told me they stayed up 2 nights and 3 days talking and discussing religion. At which point my great great grandfather declared hes faith in the bahai faith.
At the end of the war in the 1980s our family escaped through pakistan as refugees in which we were interviewed and processed through the united nations for a year sponsored by my aunt who was living here. We moved to southern california and i remember the car ride to our new exciting home from LAX. All the buildings with beautiful lights towering our drive on the freeway. Only a month or so away from christmas. You can imagine what it was like for a 8 year old to come to a new place where a beautiful colorfull tree full of presents was waiting for me. My first few months in this country was magical to say the least. Im forever great full for that. I remember the car ride to the airport in pakistan was with my uncle who was still waiting for his papers to go to germany. He would tell me how when i land in america all the trees were in the shapes of animals. That all children got there own bikes. That in every home there was a big box of toys and games for every children that lived there. Wow.. its hard to imagine that was so many years ago. But i can still remember it like it was today.
Anyway im here to answer any questions you might have about the middle east. about islam. about sunni vs shia.. about modern day terrorism and how we can help to stop it. I apologize if anything i say offends anyone as that is not my intention. It is only through my experiences and what i have seen first hand that make up who im. Thank you.
Anti semtism in the middle east during the iran-iraq war
From a very young age the word jew or as my friends would use the slur word yahoodi was ingrained into us. The local mosques. The milita groups and even in school. One group of people that were always blamed for your troubles were jews. Sure the satan united states was always in the mix as we iranians seethed with hatred for americas support for saddamn hussien. The communist russians who actually sold the weapons to iraq were not that far behind.
But it was always a mix of things. some blamed the soviets, a lot blamed the usa.. most blamed saddamn of course. BUT ALWAYS ALWAYS without question all blamed jews as they were behind the whole thing. Death to jews , death to israel, death to usa was common in many of the street protests.. during religious shia ceremonies that usally stopped traffic where grown men would beat them selfs with chains to recreate the martyrdom in the shia religion. Us kids wanting to be part of the older adult groups would mimick this behavior but we would use our hands.
Marg bar america, or translated death to america was common chant. In some ways our hatred for america stemmed from the fact that they supported the jews and israel. If there was no america to back up the jews and israel. Surely we would defeat them in a war that lasted only 1 day!!
Now the mullahs of iran arent as extreme as the wahhabis of saudi arabia. So there was and in some ways still is a room for jews inside iran. Jews and christans are considered poeple of the book and as long as they live and abide by sharia law there is a sort of tolerance for them. Bahais are seen not as a religion but a political movement and they got it the worst in some aspects. So the policy of the actual government was not to say death to jews as at least publicly. The jews were not the emeies. Israel was. Zoinism was the true enemy. Anyway, irrelevant of whatever the offical policy. Jews , christians, bahais, are routinely arrested for things such as a dispute with a neighboor who went to the local city or village authority and accused you of trying to convert him or her. Threats of this and actual follow thru was common. So many minorities never spoke about there religion publicly. Many many bahai kids would remove ANY religous signs before going to school as once the school found out you were a bahai. Life would become very difficult.
But no matter what your ethnicity was.. or religion was.. you were always better then the "jews" the only consolation came when the blame on jews was EQUALLY shared with the blame for bahais for example.
One specific story i remembered was i went over for dinner at a neighbors home. This was something that my mom would not allow us to do on a regular basis as she hated the regime in iran and did not want her children to accidentally let neighbors know that our family hated the mullahs and wanted to escape. Something obviously lost on me as a child as i had my toy guns and trained to go fight the iraqis on the front lines(pretend training).
Pictures of me with my toy guns and children military fatigue was something i took so much pride in. Every Friday after mosque , i would put my best aviator outfit that my aunt from california had sent me with my military helmet and my plastic machine gun and i would march down our street in perfect steps as i had practiced many times. I would salute an imaginary officer and let him know that i was ready to go to the front lines and so that i could become a martyr in the war against Saddam and the united states. This march would gain the attention of the dads coming home from work or the moms washing the family clothes in front of there houses ready to be put up on cloth liners which lined the small street we lived on. The street was more of a dirt road. Little girls of the family clamoring to help there mom do adult things anxious to prove that they too could wash clothes and dry them. I would get whistles and cheers but i would not break formation as the moms who knew my mom talked about how adorable i was in my uniform. frustrated as to why they would not take me serously! Didnt they see i was in uniform?
No i was focused! that is until i received a salut! That was the best for me, i cant tell you the happiness i felt every time someone from the neighborhood saluted me.. I was being recognized. Finally someone taking me seriously. But nothing and i mean nothing topped that moment when a young soldier coming home from the front lines saw me. and stopped and saluted me. That was it! that was the moment a brave heroic soilder coming home from war with hes gun slung behind hes back happy to be home. I would stand at attention! Kick my right foot to the dusty ground and with full pride sling my hand towards my face at a sharp angle. This time it was ali! He looked stright at me and saluted back! Can you believe that? he saluted me?? me!! of all the kids it was me. I was hes favorite, i know i was hes favirote as i was the bravest! As he came and picked me up in hes arms he would tell me that was the best salute he had ever seen. Better then a officer i asked? YES EVEN BETTER THEN A GENERAL he would say. dilerouse with happiness being carried by ali down the street. I would yell PEROZI!! PEROZI!! victory victory!
of course ali way my favorite! He was tall and strong! he would always play war games with the local kids. Always stopped to say hello and show hes uniform to us. Hes family knew my family well, as my mom babysat there daughters. Mahshid my older sister of 14 at the time was perfect for ali. Or so they thought. One day they came over with flowers and gifts asking my parents if ali could marry my sister. It was always polite hellos, kisses on the cheeck.. salam salam welcome welcome were the words of the day. Persians are great hospitable people. My mom knew why they were coming over. Of course being an educated women she had no intention of doing what her parents did to her. Marry her off at 14. She had no intentions of that for her own daughter. My sister was still playing with dolls she politely told ali's family. She was not ready for marriage. She doesnt know how to cook or clean my mom said with a nervous laughter. Avoiding upsetting a family with ties to the local militia. As for me? oh i was running around the front court yelling my sister is getting married to ali! That would surely raise my rank i thought! not withstanding that i was at the ripe old age of 7.
one night as i was staying over at my friends house for dinner. Never over night. My mom would never allow that. But just for dinner i had earlier begged her to say yes. We were all really hungry waiting for dinner. Seeing the kids were getting restless the father of the family came in to tell us a story about a monster! This monster ate little kids who misbehaved he claimed! or kids who left there home at night to go play when the parents were sleep. This monster would come when no one was around to save you! Who is this monster we asked frightened to death. What does he look like? Does he have big teeth? where does the monster come from? can it get inside our house when were sleeping? No!! he yelled, if you behave and dont leave your house at night it cant get you. But if you dont listen to your parents it will know you have been bad. it loves to eat bad children! We were all good we yelled out! Yes he said you have to promise to be good or the monster will come. Where does the monster come from again we asked? The jews! the jews make the monsters. and they will come so behave! Until the dinner is ready. of course by now i had lost my appetite on the verge of tears and i wanted to go home. When my mom heard of this later she had a talk with there mother and i was never allowed over there house.
Looking back, it was always normal for us to blame our problems on everyone else. When the electricity would go down it was due to the bombing because of the americans. When there was shortage of food it was the zoinist. Never us.. Self criticism of our country was forbidden! especially at the time of war. If you made to much noise you could get the attention of the local authority. or worse yet be accused of being a spy. I hope one day in my birth country we can look at our short comings and take a look at our selves and realize the majority of the pains we have caused have been self inflicted. The estimated 50,000 to 100,000 thousand children soilders ranging in 10-17 years old who were sent to there deaths was our national shame. Including Ali.
We got news that the train ali was taking back from the front lines was bombed by a mig jet. The trained had derailed and there was dozens of casualties of soldiers coming home from war. My mom and sisters went to there house to give there condolences. You could hear the screams of the women inside the house. the mother crying out for her son. I remember her beating her self on the head screaming for her baby ali. She just wanted to hold him for the last time. She shrieked "where hes body". I want to bury him. I want to see him. They are keeping hes body cold, ali hates the cold she would cry out. Please god let me keep him warm. Bring him to me. I couldnt stand it anymore and ran outside to the end of our street waiting for him like i had many times before. I knew he was alive. He was to strong for bullets and bombs. They just had to be patient because he was coming home. They would see that and believe me when he would come home and pick me up like he always did and we would surprise hes mom.
Ali died on a friday. They never found hes body. hes picture is on a martys wall somewhere in tehran. Handsome as ever in hes uniform. he was 17.
Second Shooter identified as Tayyeep Bin Ardogan Qatari citizen
I saw this on the washington post feed. But reading the article apparently the source is fox news. so please take with a grain of salt. I dont get it, if this was a isis type terrorist attack. Why shoot up a work place? Why not go down to the local mall and spray hundreds of people?
Only other thing i can think of is. He worked for a gov agency? and this was a terrorist attack on a gov agency?
(posted edited as the link was to washington times quoting a fox news source.) and iv been told washington times is basically a fox news clone so i removed the link untill we get other sources. sorry about that! im not up to date on all the different politicaly news paper ideologies lol.
Second edit (just spoke with my mom she speaks farsi, arabic and turkish. and she said that name from the way i was pronouncing it sounded turkish not arabic and it sounded like a hoax name as someone with that name would generally not be from qatar.) again she might be mistaken as it might have been my accent trying to pronounce the name to her but just thought id through this out there.
Little french boy interview by french tv about the paris attacks (heartbreaking)
I think whats so heartbreaking for me was seeing this child's innocence being taken from him. The fear that he feels in his heart. The father speaks of the flowers and candles being laid at the victims is stronger then guns and bullets. Unfortunately the youtube comments take the father to task by making it sound like you can fight ak-47s with flowers. But as the comment at the top points out.. the flowers and candles represent the unity and resolve agianst evil. That good is united agianst those who mean harm. Still seeing this video was very hard for me to watch as it reminded me of the times when i was a child growing up in a war torn country.
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