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scheming daemons

(25,487 posts)

83. You're not dealing with the reality in which we exist

Mon Jan 22, 2018, 06:04 PM

Jan 2018

The GOP controls both houses. The Dems can do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING on DACA before the midterms, without GOP help. NOTHING.

The limited options the Dems have, as a minority party, are as follows: Extract what you can, and politically make it such that the GOP's least-bad option (from the GOP's perspective) to pass a DACA fix.

#2 and #3 would be awful options for the Dreamers, and *ZERO* Democrats want that to happen. But the Democrats lilterally have no capability to prevent them from happening - except to extract a political price from the GOP if they do happen.

Democrats can't stop mass deportations of Dreamers, no matter what they do, if the GOP and Trump are intent on doing it. They simply can't, and that's the reality you haven't been able to come to grips with.

From Schumer's perspective.... all we can do is make it as politically painful for the GOP to do that as we can. That's what results 2 and 3 mean. "Give us a DACA deal, or the blue wave will overwhelm you."

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Why I think the Democrats played this pretty well [View all] scheming daemons Jan 2018 OP

The armchair strategists won't agree with you... brooklynite Jan 2018 #1

That's because they think that anything short of 100% victory is failure. scheming daemons Jan 2018 #2

I don't think it's even "victory"... brooklynite Jan 2018 #3

Exactly shenmue Jan 2018 #108

Ditto Iliyah Jan 2018 #70

I am so glad you have some peace MaryMagdaline Jan 2018 #114

I agree. While I don't trust McConnell as far as I can throw a grand piano, The Velveteen Ocelot Jan 2018 #4

+1 ginnyinWI Jan 2018 #14

Plus one more. lsewpershad Jan 2018 #50

+10000000000000000000000000000000000000 Faux pas Jan 2018 #84

chip was never off the table burnbaby Jan 2018 #5

And Democrats had to balance shutting down the Government vs the noble act of standing up for OnDoutside Jan 2018 #6

I agree completely. Getting CHIP funded for 6 OhioBlue Jan 2018 #7

Yep. Get a vote on military funding Freethinker65 Jan 2018 #29

Mitch McConnell is on camera shutting her down. Pretty good commercial -- for Claire. nt Hekate Jan 2018 #124

I think you are correct mcar Jan 2018 #8

This is just how I saw it. Get something for very little. bullimiami Jan 2018 #9

+1. CHIP for 6 years is a big deal. n/t FSogol Jan 2018 #10

The longer this drug out the worse it would have been for Ds Cosmocat Jan 2018 #11

And Now DownriverDem Jan 2018 #25

so my question. Is chips a done deal NOW or can it be brought up if revisited in 3 weeks? bluestarone Jan 2018 #12

Still need a House vote on this bill... Wounded Bear Jan 2018 #24

No DownriverDem Jan 2018 #26

done deal. Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #91

Republicans also got CHIP off their plate bucolic_frolic Jan 2018 #13

Short term positive and probably cannot be leveraged again Raven123 Jan 2018 #16

Hope they have to explain why it expired in Oct and waited until mid Jan bigbrother05 Jan 2018 #18

But that's expecting the goppers to be able to keep more than one concept in their heads erronis Jan 2018 #39

I agree ... CHIP being off the table is a biggie. Greywing Jan 2018 #15

interesting assessment-I hope you are right VaBchTgerLily Jan 2018 #17

K & R SunSeeker Jan 2018 #19

Agreed. This was sound tactical maneuvering by Schumer et al... TygrBright Jan 2018 #20

Trump will not sign a DACA bill. Mr.Bill Jan 2018 #21

You are probably correct... which gives the Dems a giant club for '18 midterms to use.... scheming daemons Jan 2018 #22

And how many of them will get deported before then? Mr.Bill Jan 2018 #35

What's your point? MGKrebs Jan 2018 #38

He would have had to sign it eventually Mr.Bill Jan 2018 #40

The GOP doesn't care if the government is shutdown. They never have. scheming daemons Jan 2018 #43

Ah. That's different than " Trump will not sign a DACA bill.Period." MGKrebs Jan 2018 #51

He won't now, Mr.Bill Jan 2018 #55

Virtually every headline says "Dems agree". That's a good place to be. MGKrebs Jan 2018 #56

If he blocks it again, Mr.Bill Jan 2018 #58

No he wouldn't sign it. He is determined. Trump is not ever going to sign a DACA bill so unless Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #92

The Democrats have absolutely *ZERO* control over that. You're right, they're not bargaining chips. scheming daemons Jan 2018 #41

Yes we did, as long as the government stayed shut down. Mr.Bill Jan 2018 #46

We didn't give up that bargaining position. The deal only opens the government until Feb 8. scheming daemons Jan 2018 #47

In a political atmosphere with the people we are dealing with, Mr.Bill Jan 2018 #49

On Feb 8th, we'll be back exactly where we were on Jan 19.... but with one big exception.... scheming daemons Jan 2018 #54

Unlees a DACA person get railroaded on a murder charge, Mr.Bill Jan 2018 #57

What, in this deal, increases the odds of *ANY* of those things from happening before Feb 8? scheming daemons Jan 2018 #59

The odds don't need to be increased. Mr.Bill Jan 2018 #61

Correct. Dems were hostage negotiators dealing with a madman who took two hostages..... scheming daemons Jan 2018 #69

Use your game theory. scheming daemons Jan 2018 #62

If you kept it shut down long enough to start Mr.Bill Jan 2018 #64

That option exists Feb 8. scheming daemons Jan 2018 #67

Did not McConnell's "promise" specifically provide that it was conditioned on Atticus Jan 2018 #60

Good point. n/t Mr.Bill Jan 2018 #65

If they have not made a deal by the time designated than then McConnell has lied so all bets are Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #94

Then all we can do is vote Republicans out of office. yardwork Jan 2018 #48

one caveat to that (well, two) shanny Jan 2018 #106

I would agree, but Mr.Bill Jan 2018 #109

Agree totally Thekaspervote Jan 2018 #23

I'm tending to agree with you. PatrickforO Jan 2018 #27

Nearly half the public Hayduke Bomgarte Jan 2018 #32

Thanks for the analysis. Your reasoning seems sound. mainer Jan 2018 #28

A vote is promised, for what that is worth. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #30

Good point...they stopped having budgets after the GOP took the house in 10. Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #95

well put. I agree. barbtries Jan 2018 #31

Agree Joediss Jan 2018 #68

wow, I'm in NC barbtries Jan 2018 #71

Fascist Joediss Jan 2018 #111

I pretty much agree with all of this. McConnell and other republicans are clearly documented... George II Jan 2018 #33

In my view, this was a big loss for the Democrats. Honeycombe8 Jan 2018 #34

You're wrong, and here's why. scheming daemons Jan 2018 #37

I really like and appreciate your application of Game Theory The Mouth Jan 2018 #80

It will cause cheering among their 35% hard base... but will crater them among the "middle" scheming daemons Jan 2018 #81

You're wrong and here's why. Atticus Jan 2018 #82

You're not dealing with the reality in which we exist scheming daemons Jan 2018 #83

Thanks for your courtesy. We disagree about methods, not goals. My "reality" includes coloring Atticus Jan 2018 #85

+1. nt Honeycombe8 Jan 2018 #100

I'm seeing it already on tv. The Dem's "resistance" against the budget worked... Honeycombe8 Jan 2018 #99

That makes two of us. nt Atticus Jan 2018 #63

The Dems were being blamed. And Schumer got what he could. Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #96

The Dems were NOT being blamed collectively by most people. But they are now. Honeycombe8 Jan 2018 #102

Good summation of how I feel about the shutdown and reopening. Lanius Jan 2018 #36

I don't think we played it well but it probably doesn't matter Awsi Dooger Jan 2018 #42

Dems lost 3 weeks and 2000 Dreamers will lose status between now and Feb 8 Nanjeanne Jan 2018 #44

Those dreamers would've lost their status regardless of this deal. scheming daemons Jan 2018 #45

I agree, and for those who allowed Trump in office: this is your fault. yardwork Jan 2018 #52

Yes. Thank you. Silver Gaia Jan 2018 #88

+1000 Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #101

i agree plus they have to prove they arent welchers.. samnsara Jan 2018 #53

We're just lucky that McConnell blinked. paulkienitz Jan 2018 #66

Had a fantasy about shutdown ruining Mango Unchained's SOTU address, but bullwinkle428 Jan 2018 #72

Thanks for the summary; I feel a bit more optimism. lagomorph777 Jan 2018 #73

We got rolled ollie10 Jan 2018 #74

What did the GOP get in today's deal? scheming daemons Jan 2018 #75

They now know we will cave the next time too ollie10 Jan 2018 #76

I didn't believe the Rs would pass DACA before today. Or that Trump would sign it. scheming daemons Jan 2018 #77

so you don't care about the people involved, they are just pawns in a political game to you? ollie10 Jan 2018 #97

What makes you think they ever would have? Sad that we are in this position...If Clinton had won, Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #103

They forced Dem's to show their cards on shutdown support. Which they now know harun Jan 2018 #122

I negotiate for a living and I agree with your analysis Gothmog Jan 2018 #78

Some prominent Senators disagree with you zipplewrath Jan 2018 #79

It is posturing by those who want to run for President in 2020. And that's ok. scheming daemons Jan 2018 #90

posturing...for the primary. Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #104

McConnell doesn't have to renege customerserviceguy Jan 2018 #86

It was ChIP VS DACA...didn't you watch the coverage? Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #105

Hopefully this works out. People like Merkley and Feinstein disagree with you and OliverQ Jan 2018 #87

Ok angrychair Jan 2018 #89

I don't think we will get DACA... and that is the truth. The GOP is not going to do it. Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #107

From Ezra Klein Gothmog Jan 2018 #93

From Prof. Krugman Gothmog Jan 2018 #98

BS flying-skeleton Jan 2018 #110

The GOP has a talent for taking bi-partisan or non-partisan policy positions (CHIP or DACA) and wiggs Jan 2018 #112

This times a thousand hueymahl Jan 2018 #120

The Dems played this perfectly. Nitram Jan 2018 #113

In sales or debates the best result is when you win but the other side is laughing on the way out grantcart Jan 2018 #115

I agree! I think McConnell senses that their position is weaker than the paper tigers believe. BobTheSubgenius Jan 2018 #116

The problem with the idea we won or did well is c-ville rook Jan 2018 #117

or maybe we were rolled again... JohnnyA Jan 2018 #118

Took the Tea Party House members all of 24 hours pecosbob Jan 2018 #119

McConnell could go ahead with a DACA vote in 5 minutes if he was really for it. harun Jan 2018 #121

Absolutely correct c-ville rook Jan 2018 #123