General Discussion

TalkingDog

(9,001 posts)

206. Who said it was okay? Who said leaving a baby in a crowded theatre full of gunfire was OKAY?

Sat Jul 28, 2012, 07:44 PM

Jul 2012

I sure as hell didn't. Saying the man was in a blind panic or saying the fight or flight instinct kicked in IS NOT THE SAME THING as saying what he did was OKAY.

The point we (those of us who aren't condemning him as a coward) are trying to make is: He reacted the way he reacted. His instincts took over, he was in a panic. That doesn't let him off the hook for endangering his child.

It means is we refuse to condemn him for reacting in a human way. Because most of the people "giving him a pass" actually know what it is like to be human. We can't and won't judge him for that.

As for the rest of what you wrote: I actually agree. Given that he doesn't do well under extreme (and by extreme I mean the most extreme) situations, the mom should either make sure he gets training in how to handle emergency situations or never leave the kids alone with him.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

245 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Man left (wounded) fiance & kids at Aurora theater and drove away. Web is beating him up. [View all] Liberal_in_LA Jul 2012 OP

That article doesn't even mention a young guy who was wounded trying to help this woman LisaL Jul 2012 #1

yeah, but other articles do. Liberal_in_LA Jul 2012 #3

link to the story of the kid who saved this family Liberal_in_LA Jul 2012 #9

Not judging him, since everyone has a different reaction in the face of danger Cooley Hurd Jul 2012 #2

I've heard it's situations like this when you find out what you're made of. He was a coward. Honeycombe8 Jul 2012 #120

Yes, and you're SUCH a peach. Occulus Jul 2012 #129

Read the definition of "coward." A little education goes a long way. Honeycombe8 Jul 2012 #132

He was in a blind panic. Could you relate an instance when you were in a similar situation? TalkingDog Jul 2012 #165

I agree with you, Talking Dog. kurtzapril4 Jul 2012 #182

+1,000,000,000 x 1,000,000,000 - Well put and definitely coalition_unwilling Jul 2012 #242

You know, I wish you are NEVER in any kind of danger nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #195

I was with this guy up until the point he put his infant down and ran out of the theater. Drunken Irishman Jul 2012 #4

Actually, I think he threw the baby aside...from what I heard. Liberal_in_LA Jul 2012 #5

Yikes...I understand panic, but yikes. Drunken Irishman Jul 2012 #8

Actually the worst part of this story is that he proposed to her malaise Jul 2012 #78

That says a lot about the dynamics marlakay Jul 2012 #123

Pathetic. Codeine Jul 2012 #6

Apparently, he wasn't a "wuss." Fawke Em Jul 2012 #69

I stand corrected. Codeine Jul 2012 #71

part pussy part wimp arely staircase Jul 2012 #186

"Wimp" is "imp" with the "woo." Fawke Em Jul 2012 #217

In the face of this kind of male cowardice, whathehell Jul 2012 #227

then limp dick it is nt arely staircase Jul 2012 #228

Fear is powerful. No one can predict "what they would do" Arctic Dave Jul 2012 #7

wise words, dave elehhhhna Jul 2012 #43

No one can predict whether or not they would prove to be a coward. Marr Jul 2012 #96

If that makes you feel better, so be it. Arctic Dave Jul 2012 #98

The man is a scumbag to the nth degree... Missycim Jul 2012 #243

He panicked. HooptieWagon Jul 2012 #10

He drove off. Apparently, she had to call him on the phone before he returned. LisaL Jul 2012 #12

the problem is his driving away and how he came back only when she called him to JI7 Jul 2012 #19

he left his babies to die! sorry, he gets no slack from me. his fiance should dump him. ellenfl Jul 2012 #49

Im sure shes giving him the treatment. HooptieWagon Jul 2012 #53

sorry, i have to disagree. they're HIS KIDS. this says so much about his character . . . ellenfl Jul 2012 #55

The way I read this only the infant was his left is right Jul 2012 #110

Since he was holding his infant, if he just run from the theater with the infant, LisaL Jul 2012 #133

this is what got me magical thyme Jul 2012 #196

Cowardice is not the norm... Mike_Valentine Jul 2012 #62

In his case the flight instinct was stronger. HooptieWagon Jul 2012 #80

I don't think military career would be a good fit for this guy. LisaL Jul 2012 #93

Definately not. Nt HooptieWagon Jul 2012 #95

I'm thinking Neocon national security adviser to Mitt might work for him. CanonRay Jul 2012 #139

I'm thinking GOP chickenhawk. HooptieWagon Jul 2012 #158

I agree... Mike_Valentine Jul 2012 #113

Yes, perhaps norm was a poor choice of word. HooptieWagon Jul 2012 #157

you raise arely staircase Jul 2012 #159

Yes, its a natural instinct for mothers. HooptieWagon Jul 2012 #160

but the driving force arely staircase Jul 2012 #162

I think even the worst of parents would fried eggs Jul 2012 #74

Easy to say when you're not in that position. HooptieWagon Jul 2012 #77

I don't think anyone here suggested that he should be somehow punished. LisaL Jul 2012 #92

Well, the OP said he was getting a beating on the web, HooptieWagon Jul 2012 #97

He found out just who he is at his core. He found out that he is a coward. Honeycombe8 Jul 2012 #121

My own feelings echo yours. dixiegrrrrl Jul 2012 #161

Yeah, and I'm sure his child, when old enough Le Taz Hot Jul 2012 #99

Did you read 1984? HooptieWagon Jul 2012 #106

Video clip of dude running away alcibiades_mystery Jul 2012 #11

Yeah, it was a Costanza thing to do...BUT, not all of us rise to the occasion TwilightGardener Jul 2012 #18

there was this same video on youtube with subject "jamie rohrs" exclusive footage JI7 Jul 2012 #20

That's hilarious. LisaL Jul 2012 #21

not sure what I would do under the circumstances Whisp Jul 2012 #13

I'M think it should read ex-fiance. sarcasmo Jul 2012 #14

he asked her to marry him after all of this happened at the hospital JI7 Jul 2012 #23

That much stress and fear, it's easy to do stupid shit REP Jul 2012 #15

Yeah...I was once so preoccupied that I pulled into a supermarket parking lot TwilightGardener Jul 2012 #22

It's kind of terrifying to realize what you've done, too (at least for me it is) REP Jul 2012 #40

HE LEFT HIS KIDS! eom ellenfl Jul 2012 #50

But he put his baby down and left him. How could anyone do that "stupid shit"? pnwmom Jul 2012 #116

And it's his son. LisaL Jul 2012 #138

I hope neither one of us are in that sort of situation to find out first-hand exactly what we'd do REP Jul 2012 #223

the GUy is a Loser, not because he ran out but because he even drove away JI7 Jul 2012 #16

It's interesting Dash87 Jul 2012 #148

Says a lot about human nature, that. redqueen Jul 2012 #230

None of us knows how we, personally, would react... ljm2002 Jul 2012 #17

it's not him leaving the danger zone, but him driving home and how she had to call him JI7 Jul 2012 #25

Yes it was not a shining moment... ljm2002 Jul 2012 #86

He could have been in shock. n/t kurtzapril4 Jul 2012 #190

Yes, that's very possible... ljm2002 Jul 2012 #213

Once he was out cops were there marlakay Jul 2012 #137

The worst part, IMHO, was putting his baby boy on the floor and abandoning him pnwmom Jul 2012 #172

Since he is the one who gave interviews and told this story, why exactly should he be left alone? LisaL Jul 2012 #26

True, he's out there giving interviews... ljm2002 Jul 2012 #85

It's his KID laundry_queen Jul 2012 #30

Yes it's his kid... ljm2002 Jul 2012 #84

I really don't think that prtecting one's child is atypical. LisaL Jul 2012 #237

Yeah, well if I reacted the way he did NYC Liberal Jul 2012 #101

He seemed surprisingly unconcerned about it... ljm2002 Jul 2012 #141

He wouldn't have had to be heroic to keep holding the baby he was holding pnwmom Jul 2012 #117

Yes, that is very true... ljm2002 Jul 2012 #140

Yes, it was a gut reaction. His survival instincts kicked in. Now he knows: he's a coward at hiscore Honeycombe8 Jul 2012 #124

Again, I am not saying he did not act in a cowardly fashion... ljm2002 Jul 2012 #143

this is what happens when you have a culture of emasculation datasuspect Jul 2012 #233

i do - but i have situational awareness and extensive urban combat training. datasuspect Jul 2012 #232

is it emasculation or is it self absorption? newspeak Jul 2012 #234

i already conceded your point datasuspect Jul 2012 #235

Tempted to say something, but I also haven't been shot at before. (nt) Posteritatis Jul 2012 #24

Coward!!!! Cali_Democrat Jul 2012 #27

If its fair for me to say that some people were brave then I think I can say he was cowardly. aikoaiko Jul 2012 #28

We are all different HockeyMom Jul 2012 #31

Well we know what he did, though. LisaL Jul 2012 #90

Is this the guy who proposed to his fianc� after they went to the hospital? Gin Jul 2012 #29

yes, it's that one JI7 Jul 2012 #33

Geez....he was crying and sobbing..... Gin Jul 2012 #39

yes. he ran from theater. Another guy saved his family. He returned and proposed. Liberal_in_LA Jul 2012 #38

Of course he left. It's what the Republican Party taught him. Scuba Jul 2012 #32

Well, looks like that relationship is finished. nt valerief Jul 2012 #34

Last I hears she plans to marry him, since she accepted his proposal. LisaL Jul 2012 #36

no. They are now engaged. Liberal_in_LA Jul 2012 #37

Two reactions: I have pity for him personally, but I like the public condemnation... reformist2 Jul 2012 #35

There was plenty of pressure in days past in one's own community. We don't need THIS. Zalatix Jul 2012 #56

You can pick a pResident, klook Jul 2012 #65

Great point... Mike_Valentine Jul 2012 #114

Absurd. There are no "cowards" in a firefight. Robb Jul 2012 #41

Is running away while leaving an infant behind normal? LisaL Jul 2012 #42

Depends on how romantic your view on humanity is. Robb Jul 2012 #45

I think she is not getting more praise because people expect that a parent will try to save LisaL Jul 2012 #46

People do expect that, I agree. Robb Jul 2012 #47

As a guy with attention deficit caseymoz Jul 2012 #83

A coward puts his baby on the floor to die so he can save himself. Honeycombe8 Jul 2012 #125

Would you like us all to say what we think of YOU now? Occulus Jul 2012 #131

Coward: a person who lacks courage in facing danger, difficulty, opposition, pain, etc. Honeycombe8 Jul 2012 #134

Coward is not a presentation of facts. caseymoz Jul 2012 #180

I understand that no one really knows exactly what they'd do... liberalmuse Jul 2012 #44

i thought him not mentioning the guy who did help save his girlfriend and kids JI7 Jul 2012 #48

When I lived in Hollywood in the late '70's kurtzapril4 Jul 2012 #197

When I was a kid, my mom left us swimming with a shark. Bonobo Jul 2012 #51

Let's talk about the Internets-that-never-forget, can we? Zalatix Jul 2012 #54

If you want to keep your mistakes private, it might help if you don't give interviews describing LisaL Jul 2012 #58

I believe he was caught on video. Zalatix Jul 2012 #60

What video? LisaL Jul 2012 #66

I am 100% sure that I would not leave my kids in an ocean if a shark was spotted. Bonobo Jul 2012 #64

The fact that other people might have reacted the same way doesn't make it NOT cowardly. Honeycombe8 Jul 2012 #187

I can't judge him. Ilsa Jul 2012 #52

There is only ONE villain in this story (and it's not this guy) Tom Ripley Jul 2012 #57

Obviously he was in shock Generic Brad Jul 2012 #59

Not going to judge him, not until I am in his shoes. People are wired differently. sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #61

When I've been in this guy's shoes, I will feel qualified to judge him Downtown Hound Jul 2012 #63

And sometimes, a person whose arm is blown off will pick it up and attempt to stick it back on. Poll_Blind Jul 2012 #67

I didn't realize DU had so many heroes... n/t cherokeeprogressive Jul 2012 #68

I'm conflicted over whether this guy deserves the scorn he's getting. Zalatix Jul 2012 #102

Or so many "perfect" parents. kentauros Jul 2012 #105

Nobody knows how they'll react to when the shit hits the fan till it actually does. Kaleva Jul 2012 #70

But this guy now does! LisaL Jul 2012 #72

Society expects the man to sacrifice himself in order to defend others. Kaleva Jul 2012 #79

Three men reportedly did just that during the massacre. LisaL Jul 2012 #82

Society expects Parents to Sacrifice for children, he threw his baby aside JI7 Jul 2012 #94

Yup, everyone's quick to judge. Zalatix Jul 2012 #103

Again, if you don't want your issues to be aired in front of the world, don't go on TV LisaL Jul 2012 #136

You seem to be really adamant about this. Zalatix Jul 2012 #198

When somebody tries to make it personal, I assume it's because they can't argue any other way. LisaL Jul 2012 #202

It looks like you're the one making it personal. Zalatix Jul 2012 #210

Yep. Easy to be heroic sitting behind a keyboard. HooptieWagon Jul 2012 #81

That guy deserves the Congressional Medal of Dishonor (nt) Nye Bevan Jul 2012 #73

What a cowardly thing to do. Alduin Jul 2012 #75

Count down to "former" fiancee... 5,4,3,2,1 jaysunb Jul 2012 #76

Leave your kid? Yeah former if she has any sense. lonestarnot Jul 2012 #87

Well flight or fight def kicked in for him.. I can't judge nadine_mn Jul 2012 #88

More powerful in some than others. LisaL Jul 2012 #89

FYI--I found a post on HuffPo about a fundraising site for the young hero: tblue37 Jul 2012 #91

Who is he? George Costanza? Initech Jul 2012 #100

For all the idiots here cutting this guy some slack, I give you the wisdom of Chris Rock NickB79 Jul 2012 #104

Um, yeah, I love Chris Rock too Downtown Hound Jul 2012 #107

"I take care of my kids. You're supposed to, ya dumb motherfucker!" NickB79 Jul 2012 #108

Is it really necessary to call people names? n/t kurtzapril4 Jul 2012 #201

Calling DUers who disagree with you 'idiots'? That's against DU rules. Zalatix Jul 2012 #221

I hold no judgement of him. I cannot imagine what it must have been like in that theater. FedUpWithIt All Jul 2012 #109

he panicked. barbtries Jul 2012 #111

That is the definition of cowardice. Honeycombe8 Jul 2012 #126

i never said it was okay. barbtries Jul 2012 #167

I haven't seen anyone suggesting he should be brought up on any charges. LisaL Jul 2012 #177

I have no idea what I would do under these circumstances, Are_grits_groceries Jul 2012 #112

That YOU may have done the same thing doesn't make it not cowardly. Honeycombe8 Jul 2012 #127

I may or may not have done the same thing. Are_grits_groceries Jul 2012 #153

I don't know why you need your own definition. Just read the one in the dictionary. LisaL Jul 2012 #173

Until bullets are flying,no one knows how they will act. Swede Jul 2012 #115

Some behave cowardly. alphafemale Jul 2012 #118

True. Some seem to think that if they had done the same thing, that makes it not cowardly. Honeycombe8 Jul 2012 #128

It is what coward means. Dropping a baby to save your own hide is disgusting. alphafemale Jul 2012 #144

wow...the sheer number of people on this thread giving this guy a pass ProdigalJunkMail Jul 2012 #119

I thought the same thing. People think that if they had done that, that would make it okay. Honeycombe8 Jul 2012 #130

Who said it was okay? Who said leaving a baby in a crowded theatre full of gunfire was OKAY? TalkingDog Jul 2012 #206

It goes w/o saying he was in panic mode, just like everyone else. That's another way of trying Honeycombe8 Jul 2012 #207

I agree. Alduin Jul 2012 #149

Thank you! I totally agree!! Carolina Jul 2012 #151

Kids that age at that movie at that time? FreeJoe Jul 2012 #122

thunk alphafemale Jul 2012 #154

NO Sherman A1 Jul 2012 #203

Panic is a motherfucker. Iggo Jul 2012 #135

I think you put it best Iggo. None of us know what we would do in a panic. I would sure hope southernyankeebelle Jul 2012 #142

We might not know what somebody else would do, but we know what this guy did. LisaL Jul 2012 #145

Yes your right. So what does that do? What is going to change for him? He already feels terrible southernyankeebelle Jul 2012 #193

That woman isn't married to him yet. LisaL Jul 2012 #200

No discuss all you want. I don't care. All am saying it isn't going to change what happened. southernyankeebelle Jul 2012 #204

Ya know what is REALLY disgusting? 99Forever Jul 2012 #146

Well, yes, until one is in danger, one is not going to find if he or she has courage or not. LisaL Jul 2012 #147

Precisely. 99Forever Jul 2012 #150

yes, fight or flight is the most basic of human responses but Carolina Jul 2012 #152

Were you there? 99Forever Jul 2012 #164

His was holding his infant. He put the infant down and escaped. LisaL Jul 2012 #171

I expect people to... 99Forever Jul 2012 #185

Did ANYONE else at the theatere throw down their babies to be trompled on, and run for the hills? Honeycombe8 Jul 2012 #192

Another... 99Forever Jul 2012 #199

no, but I have had a baby and Carolina Jul 2012 #224

Says it all: 99Forever Jul 2012 #226

Cowardice: Failing to have courage in a dangerous situation. If a lot of people acted that way... Honeycombe8 Jul 2012 #183

You say... 99Forever Jul 2012 #188

+100,000. I'd hope that I don't panic when shit happens. Zalatix Jul 2012 #222

They are trying to convince themselves this would never happen to them treestar Jul 2012 #218

Well, if we are going with psychoanalysis. And what would be reasons for defending the guy? LisaL Jul 2012 #229

A realization that humans are flawed treestar Jul 2012 #236

In my view, "the most heroic" thing would be go wrestle the gunman, or start saving strangers. LisaL Jul 2012 #240

You're moving a goal post treestar Jul 2012 #244

It's called panic - and it's probably driven by Adrenalin. hedgehog Jul 2012 #155

hmmm arely staircase Jul 2012 #156

um. two kids under 5 yo in a theatre after midnight? or did we already have that flame-fest? KG Jul 2012 #163

Sounds like both parents make poor decisions. eilen Jul 2012 #166

or get a baby-sitter if they really wanted to see the movie now. spooky3 Jul 2012 #169

The mother did manage to save both her kids, while getting wounded. LisaL Jul 2012 #178

Their mother appears to be quite brave. She didn't run out of the theater without her children. LisaL Jul 2012 #179

that was exactly my question. spooky3 Jul 2012 #168

yeah, one cable news has so many comments about the approprietness of two babies Liberal_in_LA Jul 2012 #231

Brave Sir Robin... EX500rider Jul 2012 #170

" felt remorse and a bit of self-loathing " leave him alone. is my answer. i am sorry we have the seabeyond Jul 2012 #174

Again, if someone wants to be left alone, it's not a good idea to go on TV and give interviews. LisaL Jul 2012 #181

i dont feel the need.... to beat him up. i have never been much into the bullying seabeyond Jul 2012 #184

To call out something for what it is, is not bullying. Bullying is picking on an innocent victim... Honeycombe8 Jul 2012 #189

If you go on TV and give interviews, you should expect that people will discuss it. LisaL Jul 2012 #191

This is an opportunity for everyone who HASN'T been in that situation to feel self-righteous. Zalatix Jul 2012 #241

personally, i find it disgusting and endemic of who we have become seabeyond Jul 2012 #245

At least he turned back tawadi Jul 2012 #175

He drove away and she had to call him before he turned back. LisaL Jul 2012 #176

Won't judge nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #194

+1 (nt) NYC_SKP Jul 2012 #238

So, in who's interest is it to take a victim... 99Forever Jul 2012 #205

the Guy is a MEdia Whore which is the problem , and the fake crying all the time JI7 Jul 2012 #209

Yeah right. 99Forever Jul 2012 #219

Sorry but this dude is a total punk. MrSlayer Jul 2012 #208

I hope that his fiancee is now his former fiancee. Beacool Jul 2012 #211

He actually proposed to her after the shooting. And she accepted. LisaL Jul 2012 #214

Wow tawadi Jul 2012 #215

Then she's a fool. Beacool Jul 2012 #216

. boston bean Jul 2012 #212

I know how I'd likely react nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #220

I understand. Beacool Jul 2012 #225

I dub him 'Sir Robin' Cherchez la Femme Jul 2012 #239