General Discussion
In reply to the discussion: If you could eliminate one person from history...who would it be? [View all]LooseWilly
(4,477 posts)So you think Marxism-Leninism is ... sinister overall? Maybe "sinister" in some specific ways? Would you care to elucidate in what ways it is "sinister" aside from the concrete examples of how Stalin interpreted it in steering the new Soviet state (and "persecuted" the "poor anarchists" who were merely trying to stage their own petty revolutions in the midst of the overall revolution... and were... "sinisterly" shut down in their efforts "as if they were mere bandits trying to take lands for themselves rather than participating in the greater governmental system being implemented" by Lenin and Stalin)?
It seems like the basest form of spin to use adjectives like "sinister" in describing a philosophy without at least providing a sentence worth of description of how & why the adjective is being used/chosen (I'm guessing you're not just using it as a cognate for the Italian siniestre, meaning "left", to refer to the Soviets as being Leftists...
)
I think you're naive to say that Lenin and Trotsky overstated the imperialist threat... I also dispute that they threw out the "edicts of democratic socialism" (an ironic turn of phrase since Lenin, at least, never claimed to be a "democratic socialist"
... it wasn't until after the assassination of Sergei Kirov in 1934 that the state apparatus began cracking down on "dissidents"... a process which, many have argued, was heavily influenced by Nazi co-opted officials and infiltrators.
If the process of state apparatus crackdowns was indeed influenced by Nazi provocateurs, then your accusation of "sinister nature", not to mention "overstated imperialist threat" are downright silliness... and agitated anarchists would likely have been just another target of any Nazi intelligence agent provocateurs looking to weaken the state in preparation for a future invasion... which means that most of the sources you're about to quote to me were very possibly Nazi collaborators.
Does this mean that you, personally, probably love Hitler?
Let us consider the History.
Without Lenin... would the Bolsheviks even have succeeded in organizing an October Revolution? If not would that neo-liberal state that came out of the February Revolution have been able to withstand Nazi agression? I think not... an economically liberal state, arising from Tsarist Russia, would never have been able to industrialize sufficiently to withstand blitzkrieg.
Had the Bolsheviks succeeded in their October Revolution (maybe in November) without Lenin... would Trotsky have succeeded to leadership, wavered and leaned Menshevik-wise, resisted structured uniformities and allowed for looser "diversity" and "democratic socialism" amongst various factions, regions & ethnicities?... Would a USSR organized along such lines have been able to stand up to the "overstated imperialist threat" of the Nazis?... I'm thinkingNo.
If Lenin were eliminated... and Stalin had been at the helm of the Bolsheviks (unlikely, as he wasn't much of a theorist at that point)... would the USSR have been able to industrialize sufficiently to withstand the Nazis? Probably... but I would argue that Lenin's theoretical depth and George Washington-like eschewing of personal stakedom in anything but the work of "national fatherdom" was an anchor for what was obviously a suspicious and ruthless set of streaks in Stalin's nature... without Lenin's influence I suspect Stalin would've potentially turned out Idi Amin-like crazy (and no, I don't think he was anywhere near that crazy as it turned out)
So... does your answer love Hitler... 2 out of 3 extrapolations say: Yes, You love Hitler...
Why don't you just eliminate Adam or Eve and just save us all the heartache of your blinder-visions of Daydream-Anarchism? Maybe let rats evolve into the dominant species so at least all the fascists that crush your theoretical day-dreams will have cute tails?
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