General Discussion

CTyankee

(66,001 posts)

2. Why don't we look to Finland, where they reformed their education system and now

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 09:07 AM

Sep 2012

produce top students?

My understanding is that everybody came together in that effort: the school administrators, the teachers union, and the parents of students. They did make the requirements for teaching degrees much more stringent. Teachers in their schools must have an advanced degree. I'd be interested in knowing more about that.

I did read that 98% of teachers in Finland are in unions, giving rest to the argument that "it's all the fault of the unions." Too bad you never hear about that.

Oh, and Finland DOES have diverse populations so cultural differences in their schools is not something unknown to them. In fact, an article in The Smithsonian Magazine several months ago studied a school that had Asian, Indian and African students. It wasn't 100% nordic people...

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So what IS a fair evaluation system for teachers? [View all] Honeycombe8 Sep 2012 OP

I'm not sure it's possible to have a "fair" evaluation system on something as complex .... Scuba Sep 2012 #1

Fair Evaluation Test students first day of class on your subject, and last day of class. vinny9698 Sep 2012 #48

Uh, have you ever actually attended school? Chorophyll Sep 2012 #49

How much progress? Same amount for kids in ghettos as kids in burbs? Scuba Sep 2012 #70

Yes, that's a big question. Ed. research usually shows learning always takes place HereSince1628 Sep 2012 #73

And how do we evaluate the progress? knitter4democracy Sep 2012 #76

Why don't we look to Finland, where they reformed their education system and now CTyankee Sep 2012 #2

I'm Finnish tama Sep 2012 #5

I think I read a US based article (linked below) abumbyanyothername Sep 2012 #21

Or everybody else, it seems. They are top earners internationally... CTyankee Sep 2012 #24

About 40 years ago tama Sep 2012 #39

Also, don't you pay your teachers like we do our doctors? Cleita Sep 2012 #25

Dunno tama Sep 2012 #41

The fact that you speak English better than a lot of Americans XemaSab Sep 2012 #60

Kiitos :) tama Sep 2012 #63

Good idea Telly Savalas Sep 2012 #22

Thanks for the link tama Sep 2012 #68

Evals are being used a weapons Courtesy Flush Sep 2012 #3

People don't believe this but it's completely true. Smarmie Doofus Sep 2012 #67

In all fairness, unless it's in the contract, there's nothing the union CAN do proud2BlibKansan Sep 2012 #75

I believe this to be true. No, I'm not a teacher. Scuba Sep 2012 #71

I wish a politician with no teaching experience would come in and tell me how to teach.... Pholus Sep 2012 #4

Student evaluations tama Sep 2012 #7

Spent too much time with the U.S. "students are customers" mentality to ever agree. Pholus Sep 2012 #8

Very perceptive tama Sep 2012 #10

No argument from me on this at all! nt Pholus Sep 2012 #56

Paulo Freire tama Sep 2012 #62

I'd say student evals should be considered, but probably not to the extent you're reacting to Posteritatis Sep 2012 #11

One of my first profs told me how he read his evals and his system works for me. Pholus Sep 2012 #55

Pay and promotions... tama Sep 2012 #74

Grievance history? femmocrat Sep 2012 #9

Bad phrasing, but administrative action for misconduct. Pholus Sep 2012 #54

OK.... a grievance is something a teacher files against the administration. femmocrat Sep 2012 #84

The teachers who work with them probably know best gollygee Sep 2012 #6

Each and every teacher in the CPS system is evaluated already... ancianita Sep 2012 #13

Well said. Iris Sep 2012 #45

Thank you for this exhaustive post. Chorophyll Sep 2012 #50

Your post should be required reading! nt Pholus Sep 2012 #58

Hear, hear! I agree entirely. knitter4democracy Sep 2012 #77

Isn't that a popularity contest? Honeycombe8 Sep 2012 #40

So you want to know how to get rid of teachers? proud2BlibKansan Sep 2012 #12

Good point on where the emphasis got placed, there Posteritatis Sep 2012 #18

The problem with our schools must be bad teachers. hay rick Sep 2012 #34

That. All of that. knitter4democracy Sep 2012 #78

It was like that when I started teaching. proud2BlibKansan Sep 2012 #80

Our principal has really changed his attitude this year. knitter4democracy Sep 2012 #81

I think the proposed one was a tenure-busting attempt, which is unacceptable to teachers. n/t porphyrian Sep 2012 #14

all school districts have evaluation systems ibegurpard Sep 2012 #15

You're exactly right. It's a vicious myth. ancianita Sep 2012 #16

how about leaving it up to the local school board? Hugabear Sep 2012 #17

exactly. ibegurpard Sep 2012 #19

Exactly right. A vicious lie. ancianita Sep 2012 #26

We should study school systems that produce better students than ours and mimic what they do. Comrade_McKenzie Sep 2012 #20

That would be with curriculum. And curriculum is the purview of---wait for it---ADMINISTRATORS. WinkyDink Sep 2012 #27

Curricula are already legally determined by the public of each state. ancianita Sep 2012 #29

CPS teachers have been hip to those schools and 'best practices' for years. ancianita Sep 2012 #28

Union members get the same salaries per step because of prior ADMIN ABUSE. GET IT? WinkyDink Sep 2012 #23

I am not involved in education but here's my .02 abumbyanyothername Sep 2012 #30

Tenure/seniority should count for a significant part too. nt abumbyanyothername Sep 2012 #31

If this issue is important to you ibegurpard Sep 2012 #32

It sounds good, but logistically, it can't be done. ancianita Sep 2012 #33

Fair enough. abumbyanyothername Sep 2012 #37

One reason for relatively poor American academic performance Bluefin Tuna Sep 2012 #35

I agree. senseandsensibility Sep 2012 #47

I think so, too. And the failing of parents to instill these things and foster Honeycombe8 Sep 2012 #53

Would we get anywhere with basic competency tests and jsmirman Sep 2012 #36

Okay, this is the paragraph that you can't get the CPS board to agree with. ancianita Sep 2012 #38

That is fucking maddening jsmirman Sep 2012 #44

Authentic whole-person evaluation portfolios derived from authentic whole-person patrice Sep 2012 #42

as a career educator I can tell you that we STILL wrestle with that question.... mike_c Sep 2012 #43

I love your response. senseandsensibility Sep 2012 #46

as do I ibegurpard Sep 2012 #52

Great post. I wish I could rec it. nt Chorophyll Sep 2012 #51

This makes sense to me. Except I would add one caveat, which is that the family Honeycombe8 Sep 2012 #57

right and what kind of teacher evaluation system is going to address failure with that kind of kid? ibegurpard Sep 2012 #59

I think that as a liberal abumbyanyothername Sep 2012 #64

who the hell is advocating tossing kids aside??? ibegurpard Sep 2012 #65

Well, you sounded like you were resigned to the fact that some kids don't have the support at home. abumbyanyothername Sep 2012 #66

It's okay to have an opinion. Honeycombe8 Sep 2012 #72

+1. I agree ecstatic Sep 2012 #88

I agree with caveats XemaSab Sep 2012 #61

Phase out the admins and bring in the parents. Smarmie Doofus Sep 2012 #69

Oh, goodness, no. knitter4democracy Sep 2012 #79

If ya got good admins... turnover is bad. Smarmie Doofus Sep 2012 #85

No. They want grades. knitter4democracy Sep 2012 #87

That's what I was thinking, too. Honeycombe8 Sep 2012 #86

There isn't one. JoeyT Sep 2012 #82

I'm not an educator... so I don't know. Courtesy Flush Sep 2012 #83