General Discussion

Zalatix

(8,994 posts)

14. It's not a poor analogy.

Wed Sep 19, 2012, 10:45 AM

Sep 2012

You are now required to buy insurance just for being alive. You don't have to actually do anything, like drive a car or own a home, to be forced to buy insurance.

This is the world's biggest corporate giveaway and the corporations are going to find a way around that 20% overhead cap (which dictates 80% of premiums must be used to pay benefits)... which, mind you, the GOP will also stop at nothing to eliminate. Oh and did I forget to mention that accountants are wizards who do magical things to numbers that would make Voldemort look amateurish? That's probably why one DUer's rate went up 10% in a year. And that "super inflation index"? Other bean counters will be working on gaming that to help the insurance companies.

I haven't even begun to count all the ways around that 80-20 rule.

In short: you got lucky this year. Others? Not so much.

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Remember when I said the mandatory health insurance provision in the ACA was bad news? [View all] Zalatix Sep 2012 OP

Link? Surya Gayatri Sep 2012 #1

74% of statistics on the internet are made up on the spot. NightWatcher Sep 2012 #2

+1! Surya Gayatri Sep 2012 #3

You done sneering yet? Zalatix Sep 2012 #5

You're making claims based on a sample size of 6 or 7 people? Bradical79 Sep 2012 #12

A real source? Aside from someone who testified right here? Zalatix Sep 2012 #29

LOL, you should be an investigative reporter snooper2 Sep 2012 #47

Are you implying the DUer who made the post I'm referring to, was lying? Zalatix Sep 2012 #51

I don't know where you pulled that from, not even left field- out in parking lot C maybe? snooper2 Sep 2012 #70

Your post utterly lacks coherence. Zalatix Sep 2012 #73

Dude... Jeff In Milwaukee Sep 2012 #91

No, but your arguments and your insults are at kindergarten level. Zalatix Sep 2012 #92

Your understanding of the law you're criticizing lacks... CreekDog Sep 2012 #95

You mean a mandatory purchase law that originally was proposed by the Heritage Foundation Zalatix Sep 2012 #97

tell us what the tax penalty is for not having insurance on September 19, 2012? CreekDog Sep 2012 #98

"Shoot before you aim" derpishness is not becoming of you. Zalatix Sep 2012 #102

but you said the effects are happening now CreekDog Sep 2012 #104

I'll repeat for you, since you missed it... Zalatix Sep 2012 #107

yeah but the limits on their rate of profit took effect CreekDog Sep 2012 #109

Yes, some got rebate checks, at least one got dinged 10% instead. I am willing to bet Zalatix Sep 2012 #114

Yeah. That Part. Jeff In Milwaukee Sep 2012 #105

Okay, Sparky, let me explain this to you. Zalatix Sep 2012 #113

Jesus Christ, just read the fucking law, would you? Jeff In Milwaukee Sep 2012 #128

Apparently you read, but do not comprehend. Hence the fit you're throwing. Zalatix Sep 2012 #137

Yes. That''s it precisely.... Jeff In Milwaukee Sep 2012 #141

Again, you read "the fucking law" but you just don't comprehend. Let's see if you comprehend math? Zalatix Sep 2012 #145

Oh for shit's sake, are you really this dense? Jeff In Milwaukee Sep 2012 #150

People in small groups will benefit the most karynnj Sep 2012 #142

Completely unrelated to the post you were responding to ... Really ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2012 #127

So the poster I cited was lying. Did you make sure to tell them that in their thread? Zalatix Sep 2012 #138

No, I'm saying ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2012 #147

You just refuse to come out straight and say you think a DUer is lying. Zalatix Sep 2012 #148

Okay ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2012 #158

What is the logical reason that we should "move past that"? tosh Sep 2012 #61

Run with it if you want. Zalatix Sep 2012 #63

I don't think that is within the bounds of Executive Privilege. cr8tvlde Sep 2012 #106

Anecdotal evidence of 1? Enough said... Surya Gayatri Sep 2012 #22

It's just one, eh? So screw 'em, right? Zalatix Sep 2012 #31

I think we often rely on logical fallacies to better validate our faith in a position LanternWaste Sep 2012 #110

You're not even funny Hutzpa Sep 2012 #40

You're saying that DUer was lying? Zalatix Sep 2012 #50

No Hutzpa Sep 2012 #57

Well they ARE going up. I didn't say they were going up for everyone. Zalatix Sep 2012 #60

Isn't that another issue? Hutzpa Sep 2012 #74

My case, as stated in the OP, is that the **individual mandate** is not going to work. Zalatix Sep 2012 #77

And you came to that conclusion by reading ONE experience from another DUer. nt Hutzpa Sep 2012 #82

Where there's one, there's bound to be more. Zalatix Sep 2012 #83

I'm sorry Hutzpa Sep 2012 #131

the insurance mandate did not cause that increase CreekDog Sep 2012 #93

Perhaps that poster happens to have a particularly greedy insurance company KamaAina Sep 2012 #136

You're making a selective error in logic that you'd probably not make in other situations e.g. patrice Sep 2012 #154

No.......56% are made up on the spot.... Wounded Bear Sep 2012 #26

Here's one link to a NY Times story last week (but there are many others if you google) riderinthestorm Sep 2012 #88

Mandatory private health insurance will solve this problem. For-profit care is the law! nt Romulox Sep 2012 #4

the should just rename Congress to "Rentseekers Anonymous" BOG PERSON Sep 2012 #124

I got money back a few months ago. Sanddancer Sep 2012 #6

It's not a poor analogy. Zalatix Sep 2012 #14

Having a tax penalty imposed is not the same as being 'forced' to buy insurance. randome Sep 2012 #27

Buy or pay a penalty is not force? You have a strange definition of the word 'penalty'. Zalatix Sep 2012 #32

So Democrats were wrong all these years when they opposed it? The President was wrong sabrina 1 Sep 2012 #129

If i don't own a car i don't need car insurance. Sanddancer Sep 2012 #59

So the only way out of being shaken down for money for corporate welfare is to die. Gotcha. Zalatix Sep 2012 #65

Yes. As long as healthcare in the US remains a business. Sanddancer Sep 2012 #79

You are *not* *now* required to buy insurance, stop lying about ACA CreekDog Sep 2012 #96

All you have to do is look at Romneycare to find out what happens when it IS sabrina 1 Sep 2012 #130

Only people in the exchanges will be paying community rates SickOfTheOnePct Sep 2012 #132

outside the exchanges will require community rating CreekDog Sep 2012 #157

I'm not criticizing the law SickOfTheOnePct Sep 2012 #160

No, it's not a poor analogy at all, just the assertions are false CreekDog Sep 2012 #100

I've gotta say, one thing that truly irritates me anarch Sep 2012 #7

you think its bad now MrDiaz Sep 2012 #13

FAIL! When there is 8% structural unemployment, monetary stimulus by itself coalition_unwilling Sep 2012 #28

okay my friend MrDiaz Sep 2012 #84

We want everyone in this country to have health insurance. Don't we? Nye Bevan Sep 2012 #8

No. We want people to have Health CARE. "Insurance" is a corporate, for-profit concern. nt Romulox Sep 2012 #10

+1! Zalatix Sep 2012 #16

Do you agree that the ACA is preferable to doing nothing? (nt) Nye Bevan Sep 2012 #18

Yes, but the mandate is poisonous. Zalatix Sep 2012 #21

The mandate is needed for the requirement that insurance companies cover pre-existing conditions. Nye Bevan Sep 2012 #24

Taxes on the rich could have funded that. Zalatix Sep 2012 #54

No. Making the insurance industry part of the government will have disastrous consequences. nt Romulox Sep 2012 #119

That is actually what single payer is. The government becomes the insurer. nt stevenleser Sep 2012 #133

Um, no. Single Payer does not include guaranteed profit margins for private insurers. nt Romulox Sep 2012 #159

I didnt say that it did. I said the way you phrased it = single payer. nt stevenleser Sep 2012 #161

The mandate does not provide everyone in the country with health insurance. nt NCTraveler Sep 2012 #108

This is their last gasp before the ACA goes into full effect and they know it. dawg Sep 2012 #9

No, I don't. Can you provide a link to where you said that?...nt SidDithers Sep 2012 #11

Yes, I'd like to see it too. And DUers' DevonRex Sep 2012 #17

Right here Zalatix Sep 2012 #20

community rating, which hasn't taken effect yet (nor has the mandate) CreekDog Sep 2012 #101

So? Health care premiums have been doing that for decades. 2012 national sinkingfeeling Sep 2012 #15

Exponential growth doesn't just keep going, in the real world bhikkhu Sep 2012 #25

The OP made a specific assertion of fact, has no data to back it up, and this Warren Stupidity Sep 2012 #37

See Post #5, are you saying that DUer whose post I cited was lying? Zalatix Sep 2012 #53

My health insurance went up on average 25% every year when Dubya was pResident. auburngrad82 Sep 2012 #19

You're insurance cost 6 times more in 2008 than in 2000? hughee99 Sep 2012 #103

Actually it doubled over the first four years auburngrad82 Sep 2012 #122

Use your head. This is step one. DevonRex Sep 2012 #23

+1 DinahMoeHum Sep 2012 #30

Use YOUR head. Republicans will game the system. See #14 Zalatix Sep 2012 #33

If it's so easy for them to "game the system", why are they desperate to overturn the ACA? (nt) Nye Bevan Sep 2012 #58

They'll keep the individual mandate. Corporations LOVE that. Zalatix Sep 2012 #116

Thank you n/t rsweets Sep 2012 #34

Your OP is baseless. Warren Stupidity Sep 2012 #35

See post #5. Zalatix Sep 2012 #36

So your claim is that anecdotal evidence, the statements of a few people on the internets Warren Stupidity Sep 2012 #39

First of all, I don't think the poster was a liar. Zalatix Sep 2012 #43

As soon as you walk back your implication that ACA is making things worse Warren Stupidity Sep 2012 #45

I didn't say the ACA is making things worse. I said the INDIVIDUAL MANDATE is making things worse. Zalatix Sep 2012 #49

The individual mandate is not on effect jberryhill Sep 2012 #152

The OP said only that premiums were going up by 'as much as 10 percent'. I have to coalition_unwilling Sep 2012 #38

The OP blames "obamacare" for - BELOW AVERAGE INCREASES. Warren Stupidity Sep 2012 #42

Please see my edited post. I think the 'tell' is that insurance premiums coalition_unwilling Sep 2012 #44

They have been doing that and worse for a long time. Warren Stupidity Sep 2012 #48

A Republican talking point? The individual mandate was Mitt Romney's brainchild. Zalatix Sep 2012 #46

I doubt that brush Sep 2012 #41

Balony. The ACA is not what is driving costs up. Lil Missy Sep 2012 #52

guaranteed customers is bad alc Sep 2012 #55

Indeed. There are LEGIONS of ways for them to game the system. Zalatix Sep 2012 #64

When you are limited to a percentage and control the purse strings TheKentuckian Sep 2012 #139

I sure haven't seen that. However, what do you think premiums were doing before ACA? They were NOT still_one Sep 2012 #56

As I said upthread, health insurance premiums should have been FROZEN. Zalatix Sep 2012 #62

You keep talking about what "should" have been done in this thread. Nye Bevan Sep 2012 #66

And the Individual Mandate is a poisonous element. It was originally a HERITAGE FOUNDATION idea. Zalatix Sep 2012 #68

It's not mandatory, why are you spreading misinformation? CreekDog Sep 2012 #71

So no individual mandate law was passed or upheld by the Supreme Court? Zalatix Sep 2012 #78

Is there a requirement *today* that you buy insurance right now? CreekDog Sep 2012 #89

No, but the law has been passed. Insurance companies are responding to that law. Zalatix Sep 2012 #94

OK, Romney's your man. He has pledged to overturn it on the first day of his presidency. (nt) Nye Bevan Sep 2012 #72

Are you KIDDING ME? Romney was the guy who passed the FIRST health insurance mandate law in MA. Zalatix Sep 2012 #75

That was a couple of Etch-a-Sketch shakes ago (nt) Nye Bevan Sep 2012 #80

+100! Zalatix Sep 2012 #81

Um, you realize how stunningly ironic this statement is, don't you? Um, don't you??? nt Romulox Sep 2012 #121

O'er here, reality check nadinbrzezinski Sep 2012 #85

Does it matter if premiums go up when the ACA demands that any $ not spent on providing care stopbush Sep 2012 #67

See post #14, and post #55 Zalatix Sep 2012 #69

Maybe it's time for you to give up...you speak about a law you don't get CreekDog Sep 2012 #117

Maybe you should start trying to actually read what I said. Zalatix Sep 2012 #118

That's not entirely true... Sancho Sep 2012 #76

Oh please. Loki Sep 2012 #86

I don't remember when you said it.... Jeff In Milwaukee Sep 2012 #87

Here is what the OP says that is total bullshit. Warren Stupidity Sep 2012 #90

Good post. Nye Bevan Sep 2012 #99

Hear Hear !! One of the 53% ers to be sure. All baloney, no bread. cr8tvlde Sep 2012 #111

I got a notice I'm getting a REFUND because of the 85% rule. Ins. premiums go up EVERY YEAR.... Obamamite Sep 2012 #112

I'd be happy with a 10% increase, considering it has gone up more than that annually for decades. Hoyt Sep 2012 #115

no, I don't remember. *hides thread. Whisp Sep 2012 #120

Mine went up $30/ month. Capital Blue Cross. WinkyDink Sep 2012 #123

Our insurance went up a very small amount gollygee Sep 2012 #125

And mine went down for the 1st time in 10 years. Lex Sep 2012 #135

This title infuriates me and that "we" are even engaging with this, uh, objectivist, is offensive. cr8tvlde Sep 2012 #126

Not mine. Same coverage and premium went DOWN Lex Sep 2012 #134

OURS, TOO!! renie408 Sep 2012 #140

Wonderful! Lex Sep 2012 #143

There IS an alternative to mandatory health insurance (assuming single-payer is "off the table")... tledford Sep 2012 #144

That's funny... sendero Sep 2012 #146

I'm still miffed that my FSA has been reduced to $2500. aikoaiko Sep 2012 #149

No, I don't remember. Renew Deal Sep 2012 #151

Huh? Premiums HAVE BEEN going up for years now. nt valerief Sep 2012 #153

they would have gone up regardless. spanone Sep 2012 #155

Duh, where you been man? Insurance has been B Calm Sep 2012 #156