General Discussion

cr8tvlde

(1,185 posts)

106. I don't think that is within the bounds of Executive Privilege.

Wed Sep 19, 2012, 12:47 PM

Sep 2012

Obama got passed what he could, and that with the Evil Eyes all around. I think everyone here would like to see single payer, but until our "enlightened" cretins in Congress ... and their apologists ... get over "that's so European", this is the best we can do.

One thing I will tell you, that COBRA MANDATORY insurance rates have plummeted. My sister, when she got laid off, was forced to pay (borrow) $600 a month which included a $1500 deductible. That was more than half of her former take-home. Why forced? Because at that time, if you did not have insurance, you could not get insurance if you lucked out and got another job. They made gazillions during the economic hard times.

Oh, and neither will a 4% increase hurt people who already have insurance. Maybe they'll get energized and help us vote in those who give a sh&& about health care and get single payer. Until then, go to work and elect Democrats, rather than sitting around bitching.

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Remember when I said the mandatory health insurance provision in the ACA was bad news? [View all] Zalatix Sep 2012 OP

Link? Surya Gayatri Sep 2012 #1

74% of statistics on the internet are made up on the spot. NightWatcher Sep 2012 #2

+1! Surya Gayatri Sep 2012 #3

You done sneering yet? Zalatix Sep 2012 #5

You're making claims based on a sample size of 6 or 7 people? Bradical79 Sep 2012 #12

A real source? Aside from someone who testified right here? Zalatix Sep 2012 #29

LOL, you should be an investigative reporter snooper2 Sep 2012 #47

Are you implying the DUer who made the post I'm referring to, was lying? Zalatix Sep 2012 #51

I don't know where you pulled that from, not even left field- out in parking lot C maybe? snooper2 Sep 2012 #70

Your post utterly lacks coherence. Zalatix Sep 2012 #73

Dude... Jeff In Milwaukee Sep 2012 #91

No, but your arguments and your insults are at kindergarten level. Zalatix Sep 2012 #92

Your understanding of the law you're criticizing lacks... CreekDog Sep 2012 #95

You mean a mandatory purchase law that originally was proposed by the Heritage Foundation Zalatix Sep 2012 #97

tell us what the tax penalty is for not having insurance on September 19, 2012? CreekDog Sep 2012 #98

"Shoot before you aim" derpishness is not becoming of you. Zalatix Sep 2012 #102

but you said the effects are happening now CreekDog Sep 2012 #104

I'll repeat for you, since you missed it... Zalatix Sep 2012 #107

yeah but the limits on their rate of profit took effect CreekDog Sep 2012 #109

Yes, some got rebate checks, at least one got dinged 10% instead. I am willing to bet Zalatix Sep 2012 #114

Yeah. That Part. Jeff In Milwaukee Sep 2012 #105

Okay, Sparky, let me explain this to you. Zalatix Sep 2012 #113

Jesus Christ, just read the fucking law, would you? Jeff In Milwaukee Sep 2012 #128

Apparently you read, but do not comprehend. Hence the fit you're throwing. Zalatix Sep 2012 #137

Yes. That''s it precisely.... Jeff In Milwaukee Sep 2012 #141

Again, you read "the fucking law" but you just don't comprehend. Let's see if you comprehend math? Zalatix Sep 2012 #145

Oh for shit's sake, are you really this dense? Jeff In Milwaukee Sep 2012 #150

People in small groups will benefit the most karynnj Sep 2012 #142

Completely unrelated to the post you were responding to ... Really ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2012 #127

So the poster I cited was lying. Did you make sure to tell them that in their thread? Zalatix Sep 2012 #138

No, I'm saying ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2012 #147

You just refuse to come out straight and say you think a DUer is lying. Zalatix Sep 2012 #148

Okay ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2012 #158

What is the logical reason that we should "move past that"? tosh Sep 2012 #61

Run with it if you want. Zalatix Sep 2012 #63

I don't think that is within the bounds of Executive Privilege. cr8tvlde Sep 2012 #106

Anecdotal evidence of 1? Enough said... Surya Gayatri Sep 2012 #22

It's just one, eh? So screw 'em, right? Zalatix Sep 2012 #31

I think we often rely on logical fallacies to better validate our faith in a position LanternWaste Sep 2012 #110

You're not even funny Hutzpa Sep 2012 #40

You're saying that DUer was lying? Zalatix Sep 2012 #50

No Hutzpa Sep 2012 #57

Well they ARE going up. I didn't say they were going up for everyone. Zalatix Sep 2012 #60

Isn't that another issue? Hutzpa Sep 2012 #74

My case, as stated in the OP, is that the **individual mandate** is not going to work. Zalatix Sep 2012 #77

And you came to that conclusion by reading ONE experience from another DUer. nt Hutzpa Sep 2012 #82

Where there's one, there's bound to be more. Zalatix Sep 2012 #83

I'm sorry Hutzpa Sep 2012 #131

the insurance mandate did not cause that increase CreekDog Sep 2012 #93

Perhaps that poster happens to have a particularly greedy insurance company KamaAina Sep 2012 #136

You're making a selective error in logic that you'd probably not make in other situations e.g. patrice Sep 2012 #154

No.......56% are made up on the spot.... Wounded Bear Sep 2012 #26

Here's one link to a NY Times story last week (but there are many others if you google) riderinthestorm Sep 2012 #88

Mandatory private health insurance will solve this problem. For-profit care is the law! nt Romulox Sep 2012 #4

the should just rename Congress to "Rentseekers Anonymous" BOG PERSON Sep 2012 #124

I got money back a few months ago. Sanddancer Sep 2012 #6

It's not a poor analogy. Zalatix Sep 2012 #14

Having a tax penalty imposed is not the same as being 'forced' to buy insurance. randome Sep 2012 #27

Buy or pay a penalty is not force? You have a strange definition of the word 'penalty'. Zalatix Sep 2012 #32

So Democrats were wrong all these years when they opposed it? The President was wrong sabrina 1 Sep 2012 #129

If i don't own a car i don't need car insurance. Sanddancer Sep 2012 #59

So the only way out of being shaken down for money for corporate welfare is to die. Gotcha. Zalatix Sep 2012 #65

Yes. As long as healthcare in the US remains a business. Sanddancer Sep 2012 #79

You are *not* *now* required to buy insurance, stop lying about ACA CreekDog Sep 2012 #96

All you have to do is look at Romneycare to find out what happens when it IS sabrina 1 Sep 2012 #130

Only people in the exchanges will be paying community rates SickOfTheOnePct Sep 2012 #132

outside the exchanges will require community rating CreekDog Sep 2012 #157

I'm not criticizing the law SickOfTheOnePct Sep 2012 #160

No, it's not a poor analogy at all, just the assertions are false CreekDog Sep 2012 #100

I've gotta say, one thing that truly irritates me anarch Sep 2012 #7

you think its bad now MrDiaz Sep 2012 #13

FAIL! When there is 8% structural unemployment, monetary stimulus by itself coalition_unwilling Sep 2012 #28

okay my friend MrDiaz Sep 2012 #84

We want everyone in this country to have health insurance. Don't we? Nye Bevan Sep 2012 #8

No. We want people to have Health CARE. "Insurance" is a corporate, for-profit concern. nt Romulox Sep 2012 #10

+1! Zalatix Sep 2012 #16

Do you agree that the ACA is preferable to doing nothing? (nt) Nye Bevan Sep 2012 #18

Yes, but the mandate is poisonous. Zalatix Sep 2012 #21

The mandate is needed for the requirement that insurance companies cover pre-existing conditions. Nye Bevan Sep 2012 #24

Taxes on the rich could have funded that. Zalatix Sep 2012 #54

No. Making the insurance industry part of the government will have disastrous consequences. nt Romulox Sep 2012 #119

That is actually what single payer is. The government becomes the insurer. nt stevenleser Sep 2012 #133

Um, no. Single Payer does not include guaranteed profit margins for private insurers. nt Romulox Sep 2012 #159

I didnt say that it did. I said the way you phrased it = single payer. nt stevenleser Sep 2012 #161

The mandate does not provide everyone in the country with health insurance. nt NCTraveler Sep 2012 #108

This is their last gasp before the ACA goes into full effect and they know it. dawg Sep 2012 #9

No, I don't. Can you provide a link to where you said that?...nt SidDithers Sep 2012 #11

Yes, I'd like to see it too. And DUers' DevonRex Sep 2012 #17

Right here Zalatix Sep 2012 #20

community rating, which hasn't taken effect yet (nor has the mandate) CreekDog Sep 2012 #101

So? Health care premiums have been doing that for decades. 2012 national sinkingfeeling Sep 2012 #15

Exponential growth doesn't just keep going, in the real world bhikkhu Sep 2012 #25

The OP made a specific assertion of fact, has no data to back it up, and this Warren Stupidity Sep 2012 #37

See Post #5, are you saying that DUer whose post I cited was lying? Zalatix Sep 2012 #53

My health insurance went up on average 25% every year when Dubya was pResident. auburngrad82 Sep 2012 #19

You're insurance cost 6 times more in 2008 than in 2000? hughee99 Sep 2012 #103

Actually it doubled over the first four years auburngrad82 Sep 2012 #122

Use your head. This is step one. DevonRex Sep 2012 #23

+1 DinahMoeHum Sep 2012 #30

Use YOUR head. Republicans will game the system. See #14 Zalatix Sep 2012 #33

If it's so easy for them to "game the system", why are they desperate to overturn the ACA? (nt) Nye Bevan Sep 2012 #58

They'll keep the individual mandate. Corporations LOVE that. Zalatix Sep 2012 #116

Thank you n/t rsweets Sep 2012 #34

Your OP is baseless. Warren Stupidity Sep 2012 #35

See post #5. Zalatix Sep 2012 #36

So your claim is that anecdotal evidence, the statements of a few people on the internets Warren Stupidity Sep 2012 #39

First of all, I don't think the poster was a liar. Zalatix Sep 2012 #43

As soon as you walk back your implication that ACA is making things worse Warren Stupidity Sep 2012 #45

I didn't say the ACA is making things worse. I said the INDIVIDUAL MANDATE is making things worse. Zalatix Sep 2012 #49

The individual mandate is not on effect jberryhill Sep 2012 #152

The OP said only that premiums were going up by 'as much as 10 percent'. I have to coalition_unwilling Sep 2012 #38

The OP blames "obamacare" for - BELOW AVERAGE INCREASES. Warren Stupidity Sep 2012 #42

Please see my edited post. I think the 'tell' is that insurance premiums coalition_unwilling Sep 2012 #44

They have been doing that and worse for a long time. Warren Stupidity Sep 2012 #48

A Republican talking point? The individual mandate was Mitt Romney's brainchild. Zalatix Sep 2012 #46

I doubt that brush Sep 2012 #41

Balony. The ACA is not what is driving costs up. Lil Missy Sep 2012 #52

guaranteed customers is bad alc Sep 2012 #55

Indeed. There are LEGIONS of ways for them to game the system. Zalatix Sep 2012 #64

When you are limited to a percentage and control the purse strings TheKentuckian Sep 2012 #139

I sure haven't seen that. However, what do you think premiums were doing before ACA? They were NOT still_one Sep 2012 #56

As I said upthread, health insurance premiums should have been FROZEN. Zalatix Sep 2012 #62

You keep talking about what "should" have been done in this thread. Nye Bevan Sep 2012 #66

And the Individual Mandate is a poisonous element. It was originally a HERITAGE FOUNDATION idea. Zalatix Sep 2012 #68

It's not mandatory, why are you spreading misinformation? CreekDog Sep 2012 #71

So no individual mandate law was passed or upheld by the Supreme Court? Zalatix Sep 2012 #78

Is there a requirement *today* that you buy insurance right now? CreekDog Sep 2012 #89

No, but the law has been passed. Insurance companies are responding to that law. Zalatix Sep 2012 #94

OK, Romney's your man. He has pledged to overturn it on the first day of his presidency. (nt) Nye Bevan Sep 2012 #72

Are you KIDDING ME? Romney was the guy who passed the FIRST health insurance mandate law in MA. Zalatix Sep 2012 #75

That was a couple of Etch-a-Sketch shakes ago (nt) Nye Bevan Sep 2012 #80

+100! Zalatix Sep 2012 #81

Um, you realize how stunningly ironic this statement is, don't you? Um, don't you??? nt Romulox Sep 2012 #121

O'er here, reality check nadinbrzezinski Sep 2012 #85

Does it matter if premiums go up when the ACA demands that any $ not spent on providing care stopbush Sep 2012 #67

See post #14, and post #55 Zalatix Sep 2012 #69

Maybe it's time for you to give up...you speak about a law you don't get CreekDog Sep 2012 #117

Maybe you should start trying to actually read what I said. Zalatix Sep 2012 #118

That's not entirely true... Sancho Sep 2012 #76

Oh please. Loki Sep 2012 #86

I don't remember when you said it.... Jeff In Milwaukee Sep 2012 #87

Here is what the OP says that is total bullshit. Warren Stupidity Sep 2012 #90

Good post. Nye Bevan Sep 2012 #99

Hear Hear !! One of the 53% ers to be sure. All baloney, no bread. cr8tvlde Sep 2012 #111

I got a notice I'm getting a REFUND because of the 85% rule. Ins. premiums go up EVERY YEAR.... Obamamite Sep 2012 #112

I'd be happy with a 10% increase, considering it has gone up more than that annually for decades. Hoyt Sep 2012 #115

no, I don't remember. *hides thread. Whisp Sep 2012 #120

Mine went up $30/ month. Capital Blue Cross. WinkyDink Sep 2012 #123

Our insurance went up a very small amount gollygee Sep 2012 #125

And mine went down for the 1st time in 10 years. Lex Sep 2012 #135

This title infuriates me and that "we" are even engaging with this, uh, objectivist, is offensive. cr8tvlde Sep 2012 #126

Not mine. Same coverage and premium went DOWN Lex Sep 2012 #134

OURS, TOO!! renie408 Sep 2012 #140

Wonderful! Lex Sep 2012 #143

There IS an alternative to mandatory health insurance (assuming single-payer is "off the table")... tledford Sep 2012 #144

That's funny... sendero Sep 2012 #146

I'm still miffed that my FSA has been reduced to $2500. aikoaiko Sep 2012 #149

No, I don't remember. Renew Deal Sep 2012 #151

Huh? Premiums HAVE BEEN going up for years now. nt valerief Sep 2012 #153

they would have gone up regardless. spanone Sep 2012 #155

Duh, where you been man? Insurance has been B Calm Sep 2012 #156