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In reply to the discussion: The individual mandate: I and others warned that this was coming, too. [View all]jberryhill
(62,444 posts)210. Clinton had a good line on Jon Stewart's program
Paraphrasing from memory... "The problem with ideologically driven solutions is that you already know the solution, and you go forth in search of facts to support it; instead of looking at the facts and finding the solution from there."
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The individual mandate: I and others warned that this was coming, too. [View all]
Zalatix
Sep 2012
OP
Darn and here I thought Newty Fruity was going to put families on the moon. Oh well.
southernyankeebelle
Sep 2012
#348
Well maybe it is or not but it should be mandated. Buy what you can afford and the government
southernyankeebelle
Sep 2012
#347
No! I support a Democratic Party plan for HealthCare over your Republican approach.
bvar22
Sep 2012
#358
McDonald's corporate has more than 50 employees. Just ONE of the mistakes in your argument.
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#20
"The individual mandate is one of the key features of the ACA." Uh, NO IT IS NOT.
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#282
Employers started decreasing ins. for empees several years ago. They started charging employees
Honeycombe8
Sep 2012
#142
The ACA originally had provisions to try and pry people away from employer-based health insurance.
BenzoDia
Sep 2012
#4
Pry them away? It's employers who want to get free of their healthcare obligation.
HiPointDem
Sep 2012
#125
Well, employers who offer insurance want to get a better deal with insurance companies by bringing a
BenzoDia
Sep 2012
#130
Employers get a better deal on insurance plans if they offer a larger number of people.
BenzoDia
Sep 2012
#157
no, that part i understand. it's the way you're using "opt out" i don't understand. it's not
HiPointDem
Sep 2012
#160
I'll stop when you can show how people earning just $20k a year won't get socked with an extra
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#7
You're living in denial. Medicare for All isn't happening in America. You're living a fantasy.
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#69
Again, you are living in denial. I have a perfect and error-free point, you just have no case here.
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#85
As I said, if you earn only $20K a year you will be ordered to pay over $80 a month for insurance.
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#14
Nice try. You said: "you will be ordered to pay over $80 a month for insurance"
ProSense
Sep 2012
#42
Uh, yes you will. And there's a PENALTY for non-compliance to serve as enforcement.
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#70
Oh but haven't you heard? The IRS can't enforce that penalty with levies or criminal proceedings.
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#213
It says in 2014 the penalty is $95 per adult or 1% of family income, whichever is greater
dflprincess
Sep 2012
#114
The law says "no criminal action or liens can be imposed on people who don’t pay the fine"
BenzoDia
Sep 2012
#45
"You can also apply for a waiver asking not to pay an assessment if you don't qualify automatically"
ProSense
Sep 2012
#48
If you're earning above the poverty level you won't succeed in applying for a waiver. Give it up.
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#53
What part of "You accused me of something I did not say" do you NOT understand?
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#73
Again: What part of "You accused me of something I did not say" do you NOT understand?
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#94
With that kind of skimpy coverage, you are guaranteed to go bankrupt if you have seious expenses
eridani
Sep 2012
#266
Afford is subjective. As defined some will be able to afford it and others won't.
TheKentuckian
Sep 2012
#355
The Republican WSJ article is WRONG. Since when do empers "care" about employee health coverage?
Honeycombe8
Sep 2012
#146
That person can take a penalty, instead. It won't be much. But 'm guessing the person will be GLAD
Honeycombe8
Sep 2012
#155
"They can get a job where an employer provides coverage"? and you call the WSJ Republican??
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#166
Everyone knows that. Common knowledge. Republicans also started the child credit, even for those
Honeycombe8
Sep 2012
#305
I think you need learn reality. We don't have single payer. We have an ins. system.
Honeycombe8
Sep 2012
#310
A little over 30 days to the election, and DUers are posting Wall Street Journal articles
Nye Bevan
Sep 2012
#17
The ACA isn't the problem, it's the Mandate. That's a Mitt Romney idea, a Heritage Foundation idea.
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#35
Yup, quietly cede the country to the Koches or revolt, which is their plan...
freshwest
Sep 2012
#345
People earning $20k a year can't afford another $84-85 a month expense on their budget
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#25
Yes. A lot of people spend $0 on health care right now because their budgets are already overburdene
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#33
You will be ordered to pay over $80 a month. Failure to comply means a monetary PENALTY.
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#78
The only way I can be wrong is if the tax penalty is not $695 in 2016. Otherwise... you lose.
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#119
$695 or higher in 2016 is not wrong. Sorry, you're just off-base here. $695 in 2016!
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#143
"Should continue not having insurance"? More like, they have no choice but not to have it.
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#139
No, single payer isn't free and baseless shit stirring isn't a valid argument. n/t
ProSense
Sep 2012
#182
Nobody said or implied single payer was free, and bullshit lies aren't valid arguments either.
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#185
No, that's not what Medicare for All would cost. Not even close. Your facts are way off.
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#211
I wonder if this is the same $80 figure that this OP is about? I don't understand what is happening.
freshwest
Sep 2012
#344
I'm sure it varies depending on where you live, but it is very possible where I live
bhikkhu
Sep 2012
#81
My income of $28k supports 4, the other example is for a single adult living alone
bhikkhu
Sep 2012
#163
Prior to ACA, your 20k a year worker would have been on the hook for $3400.
lumberjack_jeff
Sep 2012
#37
Not true. And who are you fooling with the "don't pay the penalty... nothing happens"? LOL!!!
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#47
And if your fantasyland rebuttal has any basis in reality, the consequences will be DIRE.
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#136
Nothing "fantasyland" about it. It's right there in the law and the Supreme Court ruling.
BenzoDia
Sep 2012
#140
Fantasyland or Dystopia, pick it. You're either wrong, or you'll wish you were.
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#144
Please provide one single piece of legislation that has been enacted ...
1StrongBlackMan
Sep 2012
#44
It's a mixed bag...Many of us will have to suffer while others will see a relief...
KoKo
Sep 2012
#50
"it will be hell for those of us wanting to have access to the the health care we used to have"
ProSense
Sep 2012
#54
Very few people gamed the Massachusett's, The Netherlands' or Switzerland's mandate
BenzoDia
Sep 2012
#102
The Act, however, bars the IRS from using several of its normal enforcement tools, such as criminal
ProSense
Sep 2012
#120
And as I said, if that fantasyland assessment is true, these consequences are unavoidable.
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#127
There will be those who cheat society, but I think most of us will contribute to a fair system.
Hoyt
Sep 2012
#293
Of course any move toward a public health insurance program will lead to.....
Swede Atlanta
Sep 2012
#67
Individual states can get waivers and do their own thing, like Single Payer, as Vermont is doing. nt
patrice
Sep 2012
#96
No, quit your bitching and take some responsibility for what happens in your state. Even a moderate
patrice
Sep 2012
#113
Quit your bitching at me! Unless you think I can INDOCTRINATE the whole state by myself.
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#117
Yep. Don't bother. Whatever you do is nothing anyway. There is no effect that you can have that is
patrice
Sep 2012
#121
Contrary to popular belief, one person cannot change the world. It takes the help of millions.
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#124
And you have no clue about how you might become more than one? No wonder you are
patrice
Sep 2012
#129
Okay so what have you done to change the world, and how successful have you been?
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#134
I have done more than I can tell, some small things, some not so small things, ever since
patrice
Sep 2012
#158
Nevermind. You are either too ignorant or too incapable of understanding. Carry on with your whine.
patrice
Sep 2012
#196
You're just too confused and irrational to do anything but bitch aimlessly at me.
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#220
If you think it's only about success as you define it, you are an authoritarian, apparently without
patrice
Sep 2012
#169
And for those who choose not to pay for insurance or pay the tax penalty, there is no step forward.
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#216
You way over estimate your own perspicacity not only in thinking no one else expected that effect
patrice
Sep 2012
#106
Wow. I said "I and others". How did that come out to me thinking no one else saw this?
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#111
I am merely pointing out that to those, whom you may think it is news, it isn't. nt
patrice
Sep 2012
#118
That has nothing to do with the mandate. It has to do with perceived increase costs for the ACA...
Honeycombe8
Sep 2012
#138
The reality is employers have been dropping health insurance as a benefit for years
Samantha
Sep 2012
#147
And the costs are the result of a FOR PROFIT insurance system. Control the profit = begin to
patrice
Sep 2012
#173
Oh yeah, you still believe they'll only have to pay a $8/month tax penalty for non-compliance
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#199
it's my understanding that employers that dont offer health insurance will be required to pay a fine
notadmblnd
Sep 2012
#192
They'll save money by paying the tax penalty instead of paying for health care benefits
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#195
No denial here, your facts are flat out wrong and you're trying to force feed me nonsense
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#227
How Small Business Owners Get Health Insurance: they PAY for it, like everyone else.
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#234
I said, someone upthread CLAIMED there will be no enforcement. That is, of course, wrong.
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#244
All this woe-is-me talk about the individual mandate. Let's take a look at the #1 rated healthcare
4lbs
Sep 2012
#214
Math, math, math! The population of France is 65 million. America? 300 million.
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#240
Do you know what I said when I said "The tax on the top earners is also a damned good idea"?
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#253
I think whatever "savings" there are from "large numbers" occurs well before 65 million insured.
Hoyt
Sep 2012
#295
France also subsidizes low income people, and the government DICTATES health care prices
eridani
Sep 2012
#280
True. I support all that. But the OP's main whine is about the individual mandate.
4lbs
Sep 2012
#336
Employers have steadily been dropping healthcare ANYWAY, because costs have been rising.
pnwmom
Sep 2012
#229
Factless? Emo? Oh I see, you lack for a coherent argument so instead you have to throw a tantrum.
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#286
The ONLY reason why I and many of my friends voted for Obama was because he was against the
coldwaterintheface
Sep 2012
#294
You do remember that Obama OPPOSED the Individual Mandate during his campaign, right?
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#308
Bah, I thought it said CBS news. The rest of your argument was refuted in #316.
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#327
Candidate Obama was very clear that he opposed The Mandate during Campaign 2008.
bvar22
Sep 2012
#319
That's absolutely correct. He ridiculed her for supporting the Mandate. And rightly. nt
Poll_Blind
Sep 2012
#333
He has won on one point. I will look for sources in the future that are not the WSJ.
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#342