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Freethinker65

(11,203 posts)

172. Exactly. Paper ballots make it harder for manipulation by either side.

Reply to CreekDog (Reply #142)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 09:43 AM

Nov 2020

They are verifiable for both sides.

We need election integrity.

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it's the fucking touchscreens ppl. [View all] mopinko Nov 2020 OP

I think you are right. MaryMagdaline Nov 2020 #1

Hell yes DENVERPOPS Nov 2020 #139

"There is now no longer a Republican party... alterfurz Nov 2020 #187

I bet there is some of that-- mail in ballots saved us LymphocyteLover Nov 2020 #2

Why don't we hear this more? I'm so frustrated by the constant assertion rainin Nov 2020 #217

Yes. Agree. There could be a lot of reasons for this polling phenomenon LymphocyteLover Nov 2020 #230

Florida is paper and we damn sure ain't winning there. nt Phoenix61 Nov 2020 #3

Yeah, I think Florida is rigged differently-- or more heavy suppression LymphocyteLover Nov 2020 #6

good old fashioned ballot box stuffing. and ballots piled up in the post office. mopinko Nov 2020 #13

any idea who exactly does the ballot stuffing? LymphocyteLover Nov 2020 #17

i have no idea the mechanics. prolly registered phony voters. mopinko Nov 2020 #31

Here's how they do it: meadowlander Nov 2020 #39

yeah, they did that shit BEFORE computers. mopinko Nov 2020 #66

interesting to watch you two yakking back and forth about how they are stealing it CreekDog Nov 2020 #123

That's like saying "the sun is shining... BarackTheVote Nov 2020 #224

It's happening -- and not that hard to do crimycarny Nov 2020 #226

Or maybe they are actually crazy enough to like him Polybius Nov 2020 #160

Oh, totally--- Florida is strong trump country LymphocyteLover Nov 2020 #161

all of it? mopinko Nov 2020 #7

Yep! Phoenix61 Nov 2020 #8

there is another thread here about trupm getting 200k more than hillary in miami dade. mopinko Nov 2020 #10

Not sure about the total number but he eked out Phoenix61 Nov 2020 #23

i aint buyin that shit about cubanos. mopinko Nov 2020 #43

Obama wasn't running. Phoenix61 Nov 2020 #48

oh ffs. mopinko Nov 2020 #56

Think what you want but the Florida Cuban Phoenix61 Nov 2020 #182

and how long has your family been in this country? mopinko Nov 2020 #209

Yup tavernier Nov 2020 #62

Florida's only paper if you order it. I waited in line for 4.5 hours in the rain to vote for John judesedit Nov 2020 #91

It's been paper every time I've ever voted. Phoenix61 Nov 2020 #94

You have to tell your county Supervisor of Election office you want paper ballot sent for all judesedit Nov 2020 #104

It depends on the district. See map below lostnfound Nov 2020 #216

that's day of. mopinko Nov 2020 #222

Interesting map. Thanks for sharing! nt Phoenix61 Nov 2020 #225

Check this out. Something is going on in Florida rainin Nov 2020 #135

There is nothing that says anything about Phoenix61 Nov 2020 #140

Yep madeup64 Nov 2020 #157

That is pretty much statistically impossible. smirkymonkey Nov 2020 #155

that is exactly the thing that made me post this thread. mopinko Nov 2020 #167

In Florida it's illegal to actually look at the paper ballots questionseverything Nov 2020 #200

Unless there is a manual recount votes can be flipped undetected crimycarny Nov 2020 #229

I don't believe anyone who isn't willing to say who they are. Phoenix61 Nov 2020 #234

You mean "Anonymous"? crimycarny Nov 2020 #238

Well, that works in some places, others, not so much Ferrets are Cool Nov 2020 #4

Alabama is flat out suppression. However ... kurtcagle Nov 2020 #15

I would love to be alive to see it happen Ferrets are Cool Nov 2020 #16

you can still hack tabulators. mopinko Nov 2020 #32

100% agreed. Add a russian or two. halobeam Nov 2020 #5

Notice that nothing is being said abaout Russia. DNI ordered it so. Cetacea Nov 2020 #147

I sure did notice! I kept screaming it at the TV .... Polls aren't THAT wrong,... RUSSIA! halobeam Nov 2020 #215

Vote on paper. It is verifiable and harder to manipulate. Freethinker65 Nov 2020 #9

even if it takes longer to count. mopinko Nov 2020 #28

i prefer to vote on paper and do, but California's in person vote has been more left leaning CreekDog Nov 2020 #142

Exactly. Paper ballots make it harder for manipulation by either side. Freethinker65 Nov 2020 #172

But you need to tabulate manually crimycarny Nov 2020 #237

Why do you think Trump was so outspoken about being against postal votes? Doodley Nov 2020 #11

exactly LymphocyteLover Nov 2020 #20

Not to mention, Senate Republicans blocked an election security bill mtmirror Nov 2020 #36

bingo mopinko Nov 2020 #68

ALSO they blocked more money for the Post office LymphocyteLover Nov 2020 #73

THIS. JudyM Nov 2020 #195

K&R Blue Owl Nov 2020 #12

The sad fact is there are a lot of hate filled Phoenix61 Nov 2020 #14

There was a lot of that perhaps kurtcagle Nov 2020 #24

thank you. mopinko Nov 2020 #29

Exactly how would that occur? Phoenix61 Nov 2020 #33

there are lots of way to cheat, and none of them are hard. mopinko Nov 2020 #44

Yes it is. nt Phoenix61 Nov 2020 #52

dude. i live in chicago. trust me. it ain't hard. mopinko Nov 2020 #179

I'm not a dude. It really doesn't matter where you live. Phoenix61 Nov 2020 #183

now where would i get proof? mopinko Nov 2020 #210

here is an explanation for florida from a former supervisor of elections questionseverything Nov 2020 #211

i didnt say nobody voted for him. mopinko Nov 2020 #25

How exactly are "they" cheating? nt Phoenix61 Nov 2020 #34

Actually all that "shit" is hard. Phoenix61 Nov 2020 #40

no. it isnt. mopinko Nov 2020 #51

Ok. So there are phony voters on the polling books Phoenix61 Nov 2020 #59

no. there arent. mopinko Nov 2020 #64

How many fake people? Going to need quite a Phoenix61 Nov 2020 #77

No, it's not crimycarny Nov 2020 #228

Exactly DENVERPOPS Nov 2020 #127

+1000 smirkymonkey Nov 2020 #156

How do you know it's not if there is no audit? crimycarny Nov 2020 #235

Not really. TwilightZone Nov 2020 #18

i didnt say nobody voted for him. mopinko Nov 2020 #26

Thank you. Phoenix61 Nov 2020 #42

Perhaps the OP is arguing causality not correlation grantcart Nov 2020 #55

Biden was behind in Georgia notinkansas Nov 2020 #153

Georgia has a machine that produces a paper ballot questionseverything Nov 2020 #202

The reason Timewas Nov 2020 #19

Paper trail too. 58Sunliner Nov 2020 #47

I believe this. phylny Nov 2020 #21

Same system Florida uses and we aren't going blue. nt Phoenix61 Nov 2020 #35

What they were concerned with in Fla was data storage- 58Sunliner Nov 2020 #58

Hacking a data stream to read it is one thing Phoenix61 Nov 2020 #65

And Russian hackers are really good. 58Sunliner Nov 2020 #70

unless you have someone on the inside. mopinko Nov 2020 #72

It's a conspiracy theory that ranks right up Phoenix61 Nov 2020 #78

ok. you've said your piece. mopinko Nov 2020 #97

Our OWN INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES say our voting systems have been hacked crimycarny Nov 2020 #236

Yes! If Biden does what Obama did, and looks into any concern that receives 200K signatures, unitedwethrive Nov 2020 #22

paper ballots probably are available in every state; we always had them yellowdogintexas Nov 2020 #54

still lots of ways to cheat. mopinko Nov 2020 #173

Touchscreens Are The Reason I've Voted Absentee Since 2004 ChoppinBroccoli Nov 2020 #27

yeah, it's been a slogan around here since '04 mopinko Nov 2020 #30

The polls were correct, voting machines and ballot counting machines were hacked. KS Toronado Nov 2020 #82

put it in a drop box , not the mail. RDANGELO Nov 2020 #38

not every state has drop boxes yellowdogintexas Nov 2020 #46

Mail-in ballots -- paper trail -- Biden Hekate Nov 2020 #41

We use touch screens to make selection, then the ballot is printed yellowdogintexas Nov 2020 #45

I still don't believe that these scanned ballots are tamper proof. live love laugh Nov 2020 #63

if audits arent robust, it is easy to cheat. mopinko Nov 2020 #107

That's terrible. Even if one or two states were randomly audited live love laugh Nov 2020 #177

Scanned ballots are not tamper-proof. Susan Calvin Nov 2020 #141

Specifically ES&S JCMach1 Nov 2020 #49

yup. mopinko Nov 2020 #61

I don't think the polls were that far off... they can't account for the cheating JCMach1 Nov 2020 #69

Yep. We're having a runoff in GA for 2 Senate seats. Time to request PAPER ballots! ecstatic Nov 2020 #50

time to demand it. mopinko Nov 2020 #76

I agree rockfordfile Nov 2020 #53

It's also why accurate exit polling doesn't match. nt live love laugh Nov 2020 #57

Yep, you can't hack paper ballots. sarcasmo Nov 2020 #60

It's about data management, storage, and WIFI. All of which can be hacked. 58Sunliner Nov 2020 #67

they do a 'random' sample. mopinko Nov 2020 #71

And it does not take much to steal it. Thanks for the post. 58Sunliner Nov 2020 #74

There should be no such thing as a voting machine connected to the Susan Calvin Nov 2020 #132

i tried hard to tell ppl to audit their own precincts. take a pic of the poll tape on the door. mopinko Nov 2020 #166

Agreed. Security experts were telling them to remove the modems. 58Sunliner Nov 2020 #175

agree with everything you said in this thread orleans Nov 2020 #75

Texas is paper ballots...but why ruin a lazy conspiracy theory? brooklynite Nov 2020 #79

You have got to be kidding. Susan Calvin Nov 2020 #128

Simple. If Trump accuses dems of rigging the election and he projects everything he himself does... Cetacea Nov 2020 #151

So I don't know what happened between the it help America vote Act, Susan Calvin Nov 2020 #129

Like I said, your information is out of date. Susan Calvin Nov 2020 #130

here you are to belittle any citizen thinking elections should be transparent...right on time questionseverything Nov 2020 #213

I think that the answer is even more simple. love_katz Nov 2020 #80

then explain the polls. . mopinko Nov 2020 #85

I never said that the people are stupid. love_katz Nov 2020 #93

ah sorry mopinko Nov 2020 #171

jesus. i'm so glad ppl can finally hear me. mopinko Nov 2020 #81

I've been saying this Susan Calvin Nov 2020 #95

I totally agree we need paper ballots until sufficient election security is in place. nt iluvtennis Nov 2020 #83

There is not enough election security. Susan Calvin Nov 2020 #89

i agree, but it's a long leap from saying that to saying votes are being changed CreekDog Nov 2020 #145

HAVA was a scam Susan Calvin Nov 2020 #84

I used to do a day on the election reform news here before it died. Susan Calvin Nov 2020 #86

Under a different username. nt Susan Calvin Nov 2020 #87

yup. mopinko Nov 2020 #88

I teach computer science. Susan Calvin Nov 2020 #90

Any of my students, Susan Calvin Nov 2020 #92

and tabulators that we used here in cook co are over 20 yrs old. mopinko Nov 2020 #96

I trust the Commodore 64, Susan Calvin Nov 2020 #101

mine, too. mopinko Nov 2020 #170

When our County was considering what voting machines to use, Susan Calvin Nov 2020 #99

unfuckingbelievable mopinko Nov 2020 #180

Exactly. nt Susan Calvin Nov 2020 #189

Bev Harris did a great job of painting herself as a kook too CreekDog Nov 2020 #146

Georgia changed from black box voting to using a touch-screen system that Politicub Nov 2020 #98

even so. a bright 10 yo mopinko Nov 2020 #100

Ain't that the simple truth. Susan Calvin Nov 2020 #103

yup mopinko Nov 2020 #114

You got that right. nt miyazaki Nov 2020 #154

It's much better than what we had Politicub Nov 2020 #106

Much better than what you had? Susan Calvin Nov 2020 #111

What we had for the past 20 years was a touchscreen system with no paper trail. Politicub Nov 2020 #115

Yes yes yes. Susan Calvin Nov 2020 #119

this accusation without evidence isn't helpful CreekDog Nov 2020 #102

Huh? Susan Calvin Nov 2020 #108

Greg Palast didn't allege that votes were stolen or changed on electronic machines CreekDog Nov 2020 #118

I do remember what palast wrote. Susan Calvin Nov 2020 #121

You don't know anything much about computers, Susan Calvin Nov 2020 #122

ah, you can make computers lie, therefore the election that Biden is winning is being stolen CreekDog Nov 2020 #131

Then you know. Susan Calvin Nov 2020 #133

Rereading your post maybe you don't know. Susan Calvin Nov 2020 #134

Nah, I'm blocking you. Susan Calvin Nov 2020 #137

And I would remind you, Susan Calvin Nov 2020 #124

Sheesh yourself. nt Susan Calvin Nov 2020 #125

Cutting to immediate chase. Are PA GA AZ & NV all touch? Laura PourMeADrink Nov 2020 #105

i dont know the percentage, but mopinko Nov 2020 #109

you dont know the percentage because you just don't know at all CreekDog Nov 2020 #138

I don't know about PA AZ & NV but GA has touchscreens, crickets Nov 2020 #143

Now that we've beta tested it, I think we should adopt it wholesale for all future elections. ancianita Nov 2020 #110

Boy do I agree with that. Susan Calvin Nov 2020 #113

There have been times a candidate got more votes than were voters judesedit Nov 2020 #112

yup. mopinko Nov 2020 #116

ok kids. imma go to bed now. mopinko Nov 2020 #117

Good night. Susan Calvin Nov 2020 #120

think I'll wait for some real analysis stopdiggin Nov 2020 #126

the analysis we need it for the fbi to impound machines. mopinko Nov 2020 #168

there're a lot of people on the internet stopdiggin Nov 2020 #190

well, how many states was cheato leading they started counting the mail in PAPER ballots? mopinko Nov 2020 #192

if that's your argument stopdiggin Nov 2020 #193

probable cause. mopinko Nov 2020 #194

The FBI has to be disinfected after Trump* leaves before they can do anything. nt live love laugh Nov 2020 #206

then show us an example of them stealing it CreekDog Nov 2020 #136

I believe she is saying he probably is winning by more questionseverything Nov 2020 #214

It's worse than that since the optical scanners for the handmarked paper ballots can also have diva77 Nov 2020 #144

close look speaknow Nov 2020 #148

If you have any evidence Aussie105 Nov 2020 #149

thanks for your concern. mopinko Nov 2020 #169

No we don't need to "trust" a vote counting company questionseverything Nov 2020 #203

I've been saying it since HAVA post the 2000 election. BadGimp Nov 2020 #150

That has to be how Susan Collins wins by 8 points AdamGG Nov 2020 #152

That win shocked me as well. smirkymonkey Nov 2020 #159

been screaming this for several years now. Grasswire2 Nov 2020 #158

Yep. Andy Stephenson. Roisin Ni Fiachra Nov 2020 #162

and when bush stole ohio, dennis hid under his desk. mopinko Nov 2020 #174

Here: PCIntern Nov 2020 #163

and ppl think they havent gotten worse why? mopinko Nov 2020 #165

I noticed a change in Delaware treestar Nov 2020 #164

Hacking Democracy: 2006 documentary Dark n Stormy Knight Nov 2020 #176

thank you. the burden of proof isnt on us. it's on them. mopinko Nov 2020 #178

Exactly! ElementaryPenguin Nov 2020 #181

Oh! I get it big time! Here in NC, we have paper ballots run through tabulators. BComplex Nov 2020 #184

yup. mopinko Nov 2020 #186

Hand counted paper ballots!! AmBlue Nov 2020 #185

Yes, but also look at registrations. They are vulnerable to alteration, Qutzupalotl Nov 2020 #188

we need to dog them. mopinko Nov 2020 #191

Had it not been for COVID driving people to paper ballots, i think we would have lost. Amaryllis Nov 2020 #196

yup. mopinko Nov 2020 #197

We have ALL VBM in Oregon and we start counting a week before the election. Did you notice how Amaryllis Nov 2020 #198

1000% nt voteearlyvoteoften Nov 2020 #199

"Touch screen, touch screen, you leave no paper trail...." DFW Nov 2020 #201

. mopinko Nov 2020 #204

Europe has abandoned plans to use voting machines as they are too unreliable and hack prone. Mr. Sparkle Nov 2020 #205

Its seems like about 8 % avg nationwide of polling Tribetime Nov 2020 #207

yeah, it used to be it had to be close to cheat. mopinko Nov 2020 #208

FUCKING SPOT ON!!! nt Baltimike Nov 2020 #212

The new touch screens produce a human readable card that is then inserted into a tabulator. LiberalArkie Nov 2020 #218

unless there is a robust audit, even tabulators can be hacked, mopinko Nov 2020 #219

Yep, and then even the paper ballots are hacked. LiberalArkie Nov 2020 #220

as someone from chicago, i can tell you- there are many ways to cheat. mopinko Nov 2020 #221

Yes they do, but at the same time they have the ability to create a fraud free election. LiberalArkie Nov 2020 #223

HAVA. The Help America Vote Act. dchill Nov 2020 #227

Exactly. Blue_Roses Nov 2020 #231

they cant rig the polls. but they can rig the count. mopinko Nov 2020 #232

Four years ago Blue_Roses Nov 2020 #233