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Hekate

(100,131 posts)

136. Elaine Pagels has put in a lifetime of academic research that I find highly readable...

Wed Dec 2, 2020, 06:45 PM

Dec 2020

Quite awhile back I picked up her book “The Gnostic Gospels,” thinking it would involve translations and discussion of the fairly-hot-topic of the day, only to find myself completely immersed in a history of the first 200 years of Christianity as a regional sect growing into a religion that spread along the Roman roads — and why Gnosticism itself didn’t really take root.

I love history, comparative cultures, and comparative religions. In midlife I re-entered grad school in a Mythological Studies curriculum that embraced all of those interests. (Well, to be honest, other people sought and found other things in the program. )

What I’m saying is, Pagels’ books are not devotional works — but neither will they shake the faith of anyone with an open mind. But she surely doesn’t go looking for bits of the True Cross in order to “prove” anything.

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Was Jesus real? [View all] AmyStrange Dec 2020 OP

A carpenter in a stone house? tirebiter Dec 2020 #1

No, no. Fred drove heavy equipment at a quarry. ;-) Ilsa Dec 2020 #5

I thought Fred rode on heavy animals that disappeared before humans arrived? NotANeocon Dec 2020 #27

Oh, yeah, that was it. The brontosaurus Ilsa Dec 2020 #103

Wait, weren't the Flintstones a documentary? marie999 Dec 2020 #129

Every single time some "proof" of the existence of Jesus PoindexterOglethorpe Dec 2020 #2

No. Drahthaardogs Dec 2020 #92

Pilate had a tablet back then? PoindexterOglethorpe Dec 2020 #106

And yet the world's leading expert on the Jesus mythology Drahthaardogs Dec 2020 #107

Yes, I Tend To Think RobinA Dec 2020 #112

Well where else would you turn for knowledge of antiquity jcgoldie Dec 2020 #3

I know. I was surprised... AmyStrange Dec 2020 #6

I would use achived onethatcares Dec 2020 #96

I'm logging this with reports about finding Noah's Ark. Lady Freedom Returns Dec 2020 #4

Somebody told me that's in Kentucky... AmyStrange Dec 2020 #8

Ah. The Ark Encounter. The giant wast of tax payers dollars. Lady Freedom Returns Dec 2020 #11

At least the boat builders made money... AmyStrange Dec 2020 #51

We knew someone that went searching for the ark. LakeArenal Dec 2020 #99

Absolute and complete "Drumph Facts". NotANeocon Dec 2020 #7

I'd like to see all that corroborating evidence too, but... AmyStrange Dec 2020 #9

The late JC always makes me remember Robert A. Heinlein's - NotANeocon Dec 2020 #22

I have to read that damn book sometime soon... AmyStrange Dec 2020 #26

Nah. He was a human orphan raised by Martians. But clearly a very cool guy... Hekate Dec 2020 #123

"...follow the tracks of his early believers..." AmyStrange Dec 2020 #127

Elaine Pagels has put in a lifetime of academic research that I find highly readable... Hekate Dec 2020 #136

I remember reading about that book, and... AmyStrange Dec 2020 #141

This message was self-deleted by its author Freelancer Dec 2020 #10

You threw them away in the garbage by accident. AmyStrange Dec 2020 #18

This message was self-deleted by its author Freelancer Dec 2020 #69

Are you serious? AmyStrange Dec 2020 #71

This message was self-deleted by its author Freelancer Dec 2020 #73

That can't be... AmyStrange Dec 2020 #74

This message was self-deleted by its author Freelancer Dec 2020 #75

Good advice, but... AmyStrange Dec 2020 #76

This message was self-deleted by its author Freelancer Dec 2020 #77

Well then, you should buy me a ticket, and then keep the winnings... AmyStrange Dec 2020 #78

This message was self-deleted by its author Freelancer Dec 2020 #79

Not good at material things - NotANeocon Dec 2020 #24

The best they can come up with is that there was COLGATE4 Dec 2020 #42

"They want their money back if you're alive at 33" - Bono Roland99 Dec 2020 #125

The Romans/Pontius Pilate kept good records. There must be references to him somewhere in... brush Dec 2020 #54

LOL, It's all spelled out in 'The Gospel according to Pontius Pilate' by James R. Mills Brother Buzz Dec 2020 #67

I have no idea about such a book but an actual Pilate was the governor of Judaea. brush Dec 2020 #72

Yes, and rumors he retired to a comfortable villa on the Iberian Peninsula Brother Buzz Dec 2020 #80

For years the Jesus mythology side stated Pilate Drahthaardogs Dec 2020 #94

was it being charged? onethatcares Dec 2020 #95

I'm still trying to determine if Pontius operated aircraft or ships Brother Buzz Dec 2020 #124

If this is his birthplace edhopper Dec 2020 #12

Because it's fun, and... AmyStrange Dec 2020 #14

Yeah edhopper Dec 2020 #17

I have read that there is no evidence of a Nazareth in existence at the time assigned to Jesus. When Karadeniz Dec 2020 #13

All good points, but... AmyStrange Dec 2020 #15

or was it just written decades later edhopper Dec 2020 #19

I think there's a three, four hundred year gap... AmyStrange Dec 2020 #21

mostl likely written edhopper Dec 2020 #29

I wonder where they got the gospel stories from... AmyStrange Dec 2020 #31

Some parts of Sundays newspapers contradict each other, to be fair greenjar_01 Dec 2020 #62

I think there may have been a Jesus, but not as described in scripture. Perhaps a psychic medium Karadeniz Dec 2020 #55

Wow! That was interesting, and... AmyStrange Dec 2020 #70

Yikes...I answered you, but it's later down, #55 I think... Sorry! Karadeniz Dec 2020 #56

Yikes...I answered you, but it's later down, #55 I think... Sorry! Karadeniz Dec 2020 #57

Right, there was no historical Nazareth. Ligyron Dec 2020 #33

If Christians were aware of descriptions of Jesus's brother, James! Never cut his hair. Vegan. No Karadeniz Dec 2020 #58

There ya go. Ligyron Dec 2020 #109

... Nevilledog Dec 2020 #16

Ok, that's funny! AmyStrange Dec 2020 #20

Do you really think - NotANeocon Dec 2020 #34

+1 dalton99a Dec 2020 #25

An LDS church near here has a Jesus pic that looks like a blond haired surfer dude with brewens Dec 2020 #50

Seems like there are always sensational stories like this right before Christmas and Easter wishstar Dec 2020 #23

That's true... AmyStrange Dec 2020 #28

Strange - NotANeocon Dec 2020 #40

Dec 21 this year will be rare sight of Jupiter and Saturn merging to become super bright wishstar Dec 2020 #53

The historical Jesus is well documented. joshcryer Dec 2020 #30

No, he is not. Cuthbert Allgood Dec 2020 #35

Exactly A HERETIC I AM Dec 2020 #45

Isn't Pontius Pilate mentioned in the Bible? The Romans kept good, written records. brush Dec 2020 #59

There's ample evidence he existed: joshcryer Dec 2020 #66

From your source: Squinch Dec 2020 #88

I just think he was a cool dude... AmyStrange Dec 2020 #47

Jesus was a racist, according the Gospel of Matthew. Mariana Dec 2020 #60

Could be... AmyStrange Dec 2020 #83

Like I said, according to the Gospel of Matthew. Mariana Dec 2020 #84

With everything written about him... AmyStrange Dec 2020 #85

Sigh! Yes Jesus was real.. Peacetrain Dec 2020 #116

Jesus was a raving left wing lunatic... AmyStrange Dec 2020 #121

It was a test of faith. Jesus use rhetoric a lot. joshcryer Dec 2020 #130

There is substantial evidence that the historical Jesus existed grantcart Dec 2020 #49

There is some evidence edhopper Dec 2020 #98

They found the Flying Spaghetti Monster last week. sarcasmo Dec 2020 #32

The damn thing escaped from my cellar last night, and... AmyStrange Dec 2020 #38

I've always been more partial to Her Horniness the IPU. NotANeocon Dec 2020 #44

Jesus may have been a historical person, but c'mon man! Talitha Dec 2020 #36

I remember that episode... AmyStrange Dec 2020 #39

Here is the best book on the subject, by far in my opinion... blitzen Dec 2020 #37

I read that book. It's very interesting and very informative... AmyStrange Dec 2020 #41

Yes, it gives quite a rich account of the whole cultural/historical situation. n/t blitzen Dec 2020 #46

Whether Jesus was real or not...There is no such thing as divinity. LakeArenal Dec 2020 #43

I agree, Divine Fudge does ROCK!!! AmyStrange Dec 2020 #48

Try telling that to us all who've had a sneak peak at the other side. We can't convince you, you Karadeniz Dec 2020 #61

Nope you can't. Not asking you to believe anything. LakeArenal Dec 2020 #97

I was given Demerol to relax me before an operation. marie999 Dec 2020 #137

It's a cool sounding word, however Dem2 Dec 2020 #63

It's like when people tell me "God is Real." I say, "Where's the evidence?" Crickets. rickyhall Dec 2020 #52

God is gravity... AmyStrange Dec 2020 #64

OK, just because someone wrote "Jesus was here" on Guy Whitey Corngood Dec 2020 #65

Could've been your cousin, but... AmyStrange Dec 2020 #68

Yes. Xolodno Dec 2020 #81

Interesting, and.. AmyStrange Dec 2020 #82

But Josephus was written edhopper Dec 2020 #101

There is no direct, contemporary evidence attesting the existence or historicity of Jesus Spider Jerusalem Dec 2020 #86

The man, perhaps JesterCS Dec 2020 #87

No more real than Zeus and the gang Buckeyeblue Dec 2020 #89

This reminds of the Kudzu thread along with the Olive Garden ones. GoneOffShore Dec 2020 #90

Yeah, he's hiding in my basement. Roisin Ni Fiachra Dec 2020 #91

Does he smoke pot? AmyStrange Dec 2020 #145

He is real, and there are many of him. GoCubsGo Dec 2020 #93

My husband, who is Jewish, says Jews call Jesus "a nice Jewish boy." MoonRiver Dec 2020 #100

No, they do not DavidDvorkin Dec 2020 #110

I wasn't born Jewish. That's what he told me. MoonRiver Dec 2020 #111

Maybe it has to do with the liberal Judaism of his parents DavidDvorkin Dec 2020 #115

Yes I think that's probably it. MoonRiver Dec 2020 #119

I turned out an atheist who rejects and ignores all of it DavidDvorkin Dec 2020 #122

I heard somewhere that he's considered a prophet by some in Judaism, but... AmyStrange Dec 2020 #128

Considering the falsehoods spewed daily by edhopper Dec 2020 #102

I Don't Have A Problem RobinA Dec 2020 #113

There could have been a preacher named Yeshua edhopper Dec 2020 #117

Christianity came about at the Council of Nicaea IsItJustMe Dec 2020 #148

Maybe. He would have just been a man who co-opted and Politicub Dec 2020 #104

Well, I don't know if the resurrection is real, but... AmyStrange Dec 2020 #140

Spoiler alert: it's not real. Politicub Dec 2020 #142

SPOILER ALERT: People have come back from the dead before... AmyStrange Dec 2020 #147

fireplace portrait? utility bills? brooklynite Dec 2020 #105

Well, finding it under a convent interesting, but... AmyStrange Dec 2020 #138

As the joke in the 70's said MurrayDelph Dec 2020 #108

I don't get the joke? AmyStrange Dec 2020 #139

Explained MurrayDelph Dec 2020 #149

I think so. But at the same time, I think that mvd Dec 2020 #114

THAT is so true, and... AmyStrange Dec 2020 #135

I think he probably existed. Mosby Dec 2020 #118

I believe he existed JonLP24 Dec 2020 #120

Someone wrote an article somewhere that postulated that JC discovered... AmyStrange Dec 2020 #132

I'm an atheist but I believe Jesus existed lanlady Dec 2020 #126

Makes sense to me, and... AmyStrange Dec 2020 #134

does it matter? 0rganism Dec 2020 #131

Nope, but... AmyStrange Dec 2020 #133

Which one? White Jesus? or Black Jesus? lindysalsagal Dec 2020 #143

If he did exist, I tend to believe he was probably black or very dark skinned, but... AmyStrange Dec 2020 #144

This message was self-deleted by its author Iggo Dec 2020 #146