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Demsrule86

(71,542 posts)

13. Denial, denial and denial...just stop. It is clear that we need moderates with moderate views

Wed Dec 16, 2020, 10:48 AM

Dec 2020

to run in red and purple states or even in GOP leaning districts in blue states. While I believe in the progressive message. I know this message can hurt us during elections in certain states and districts...this year some of our House and Legislature candidates were hurt by defund the police messages which were on some prominent progressives websites with a good explanation, but if you have to explain you have already lost the argument.

Our candidates were painted as far left. This cost us seats in the House and, the state level and possibly the Senate. I would love to see progressives win in every state. I am working a project in Ohio at the grassroots level to share the progressive message and make it more palatable in a states like Ohio. I believe the policies we want for this country will benefit everyone and can be used to win hearts and minds, but we are not there yet. We are at best a center left country.

I want to win elections period. If you don't win, you get nothing. Thus I am all about a 50 state big tent strategy. While I subscribe to the progressive message and values, I am willing to elect moderate if need be and get something done. I believe at this point in order to hold majorities nationally and at the state level there is no choice. Let's work to change hearts and minds so we can elect progressive red or purple states or districts. But in the meantime field candidate who can win and don't put obstacles in our path like the phrase 'defund the police'. Yes I understand the meaning and agree but many don't. I would point out that the only reason we have a chance to take back the Senate is moderate candidates like Sinema and Kelly. We will have a chance in 22 in PA and in WI to elect two more senators.

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Ibram Kendi: "...We need evidence that progressives hurt down ballot democrats..." on MJ [View all] uponit7771 Dec 2020 OP

Some folk here act like the many battlefront pols who testified as to their 'Defund', etc.' empedocles Dec 2020 #1

I saw polls that claimed some things weren't popular but not that the unpopularity of an idea was... uponit7771 Dec 2020 #3

thing is, what progressives fight for, they believe in bigtree Dec 2020 #7

I respect progressive's beliefs and what they're fighting for. They just have to learn to win Walleye Dec 2020 #20

they do win bigtree Dec 2020 #22

Unfortunately, it seems we need more than that. Walleye Dec 2020 #28

It is not enough given our system to give us majorities in Congress or the Senate...or on Demsrule86 Dec 2020 #32

Its also not correct BGBD Dec 2020 #55

I am a progressive. The difference between me and some of my fellow progressives is I want to win. Demsrule86 Dec 2020 #34

That's it exactly. The one thing we don't want is to divide this party. Walleye Dec 2020 #40

+1, exactly. Progressive means "Bernie supporter" in R B Garr Dec 2020 #69

Exactly, you describe my view perfectly. msfiddlestix Dec 2020 #82

They have to convince people treestar Dec 2020 #56

Republicans are the ones defunding the police by not supporting state/local. Why weren't we shouting liskddksil Dec 2020 #16

Because it doesn't sound authentic - or work effectively. empedocles Dec 2020 #21

Does anything they tag us with sound authentic? Not to us because we are rational. But the American liskddksil Dec 2020 #23

Because we would lose. If you have explain than, you have already lost. Demsrule86 Dec 2020 #35

That's not explaining that's going on offense. We spend too much time on their terms - liskddksil Dec 2020 #38

+1, ... and if we were defining the opponent first they couldn't hit back hard enough for that uponit7771 Dec 2020 #68

It was visuals and messaging underpants Dec 2020 #2

Looks like the main point of the article is what we "think" might not meet up with reality no matter uponit7771 Dec 2020 #4

NO! The experts have decreed gratuitous Dec 2020 #5

+1, I would accept it if there were a multitude of polling showing these ideas hurt down ballot dems uponit7771 Dec 2020 #9

There are exit polls as well as earlier polls showing this would hurt us...and I have posted some Demsrule86 Dec 2020 #31

There are no exit polls showing down ballot dems who were up outside of MOE losing because of DTP uponit7771 Dec 2020 #53

Get thee to the greatest page malaise Dec 2020 #6

The crazy Qanonsense Rep from Colorado randr Dec 2020 #8

The Biden campaign has solid evidence from party polling. Hortensis Dec 2020 #10

We need to see it, I agree with the article. Dems being told something without seeing the evidence uponit7771 Dec 2020 #11

You say you need to "see," so mean it. "Seeing" means informing yourself. Hortensis Dec 2020 #17

Like the article said, there's no proof of it out there posted for the public showing that DTP was uponit7771 Dec 2020 #43

Here's a quick kick start from the WaPo, Uponit, with names Hortensis Dec 2020 #25

That's still no polling evidence, I think the article is clear uponit7771 Dec 2020 #44

Yes, there is and it's wrong to claim without evidence Hortensis Dec 2020 #46

You've not sited one poll of what's being requested, I disagree with Biden's assessment without uponit7771 Dec 2020 #52

You "disagree with Biden's assessment." Hortensis Dec 2020 #76

You're asking to prove a negative from the person that didn't make the assertion uponit7771 Dec 2020 #77

polling 'evidence' may well show republican's exploiting something someone said bigtree Dec 2020 #18

It's not just Republicans. Hostile LW dissident activists double teamed Hortensis Dec 2020 #19

so, still private citizens speaking out bigtree Dec 2020 #26

We're not talking about private citizens. We're talking about Hortensis Dec 2020 #27

the 'smear' isn't pointing to the origin of the term bigtree Dec 2020 #42

Yeah! a little help would be appreciated. You don't have to say every damn thing. Demsrule86 Dec 2020 #36

THANK YOU !!! Claiming a slogan that kGOP associated with dems was a gating factor in losses of uponit7771 Dec 2020 #59

I tend to believe that the bigger problem was that Bettie Dec 2020 #12

Biden who said from the beginning in the primary he did not want to defund the police won by Demsrule86 Dec 2020 #24

So, were those seats in NY and CA Bettie Dec 2020 #30

We had a good chance to win those seats...we have won every year since Trump was elected...so you Demsrule86 Dec 2020 #37

Well then, you moderates should Bettie Dec 2020 #41

Denial, denial and denial...just stop. It is clear that we need moderates with moderate views Demsrule86 Dec 2020 #13

All of that is still not evidence but anecdote. For instance republicans openly enable racism and uponit7771 Dec 2020 #14

There is polling evidence...but you all don't want it to be true so you won't accept it which is Demsrule86 Dec 2020 #29

That's not polling evidence of DTP being the reason down ballot dems lost when they were ahead uponit7771 Dec 2020 #45

You can google all the polls before and after the election...many saying that defund the police, Demsrule86 Dec 2020 #48

There's not one poll of what I'm requesting IE the reason why the article was written. You can't uponit7771 Dec 2020 #51

Well, Minnesota lost a Democratic House seat because of it. MineralMan Dec 2020 #15

Or it could be this wellst0nev0ter Dec 2020 #60

It was about messaging and "Defund the Police" was the wrong message. Sneederbunk Dec 2020 #33

That's just arguing about window dressing instead of fixing the foundation, which is our structural liskddksil Dec 2020 #39

+1, a lot of responses here are just repeating what the article is sounding off about; anecdotal ... uponit7771 Dec 2020 #50

He could try using common sense. boston bean Dec 2020 #47

Or evidence? There's not one poll anywhere showing DTP etc is reason why down ballot dems who were uponit7771 Dec 2020 #54

It is clear that this slogan hurt down ballot candidates Gothmog Dec 2020 #49

I agree with the author, we need empirical proof that it was a deciding factor on losses not guesses uponit7771 Dec 2020 #57

The GOP ran ads attacking this slogan constantly and they won Gothmog Dec 2020 #61

Then dem infrastructure would've picked up on it and responded right? NO !!! That's what the author uponit7771 Dec 2020 #65

This was a really stupid slogan that cost democrats races they could had won Gothmog Dec 2020 #72

Obvious falacous question aside we agree dtp wasn't the best slogan for winning uponit7771 Dec 2020 #73

You are wrong-tell the candidates who lost that they deserved to lose Gothmog Dec 2020 #79

Seems like there are a lot of "scary" phrases there Bettie Dec 2020 #58

"...Perhaps better framing on the part of Democrats would help..." 👈🏾👈🏾👈🏾 THIS !!! Either dems uponit7771 Dec 2020 #62

These attempts did not work in the real world Gothmog Dec 2020 #64

Then that's infrastructure not progressives !! You're citing is agreeing with the author, its not .. uponit7771 Dec 2020 #66

You are wrong Gothmog Dec 2020 #70

No empirical evidence of it was a slogan that was a gating factor in any of the losses and are you.. uponit7771 Dec 2020 #74

These candidates lost due to this ignrant slogan Gothmog Dec 2020 #80

Why 'Defund The Police' Attacks Were So Potent Against Democrats Gothmog Dec 2020 #63

This is polling of the popularity of sentiment not whether or not said sentiment was attached to ... uponit7771 Dec 2020 #67

Votes are what counts Gothmog Dec 2020 #71

You mean what democrats told them about the slogan right? If no then democrats should have responded uponit7771 Dec 2020 #75

In the real world, the GOP is using the idiotic defund the police in the Georgia senate races Gothmog Dec 2020 #78

In Texas, this dumb slogan cost us seats Gothmog Dec 2020 #81