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In reply to the discussion: Ibram Kendi: "...We need evidence that progressives hurt down ballot democrats..." on MJ [View all]Hortensis
(58,785 posts)46. Yes, there is and it's wrong to claim without evidence
that President-Elect Biden spoke without knowing what he was talking about.
Both parties study and poll everything (BILLION-DOLLAR CAMPAIGNS, remember?), as do MANY honorable private organizations.
You got yourself into the position of casting doubt on what we all actually know is the case. Ball's in your court to establish that your statement was incorrect.
Or retract it.
The piss-poor option would be to take a powder off to some other thread and let stand an accusation that we all know amounts to a smear against Biden and his incoming administration. This is DU. The insinuation isn't the crime here.
Thats how they beat the living hell out of us across the country, saying that were talking about defunding the police. Were not. Were talking about holding them accountable. Were talking about giving them money to do the right things. Were talking about putting more psychologists and psychiatrists on the telephones when the 911 calls through. Were talking about spending money to enable them to do their jobs better, not with more force, with less force and more understanding. President-Elect Biden
If you believe, as I do, that we should be able to reform the criminal justice system so that it's not biased and treats everybody fairly, I guess you can use a snappy slogan, like defund the police. But you know, you lost a big audience the minute you say it, which makes it a lot less likely that you're actually going to get the changes you want done. President Obama
"'Defund the police' is killing our party, and we've got to stop it. John Lewis and I were very concerned when these slogans came out about 'defund the police.' We sat together on the House floor and talked about how that slogan... could undermine the BLM movement, just as 'burn, baby, burn' destroyed our movement back in the '60s." James Clyburn speaking for himself and John Lewis
A lot of people in the progressive movement now are calling for defunding or abolishing the police. Do you to which Sanders responded, Do I think we should not have police departments in America? No, I dont. Theres no city in the world that does not have police departments.
Bernie Sanders
Bernie Sanders
"That orientation toward reforms is precisely why he should publicly embrace the demand to defund the police." Nina Turner criticizing Bernie Sanders for refusing to use the term "defund the police."
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Ibram Kendi: "...We need evidence that progressives hurt down ballot democrats..." on MJ [View all]
uponit7771
Dec 2020
OP
Some folk here act like the many battlefront pols who testified as to their 'Defund', etc.'
empedocles
Dec 2020
#1
I saw polls that claimed some things weren't popular but not that the unpopularity of an idea was...
uponit7771
Dec 2020
#3
I respect progressive's beliefs and what they're fighting for. They just have to learn to win
Walleye
Dec 2020
#20
It is not enough given our system to give us majorities in Congress or the Senate...or on
Demsrule86
Dec 2020
#32
I am a progressive. The difference between me and some of my fellow progressives is I want to win.
Demsrule86
Dec 2020
#34
Republicans are the ones defunding the police by not supporting state/local. Why weren't we shouting
liskddksil
Dec 2020
#16
Does anything they tag us with sound authentic? Not to us because we are rational. But the American
liskddksil
Dec 2020
#23
That's not explaining that's going on offense. We spend too much time on their terms -
liskddksil
Dec 2020
#38
+1, ... and if we were defining the opponent first they couldn't hit back hard enough for that
uponit7771
Dec 2020
#68
Looks like the main point of the article is what we "think" might not meet up with reality no matter
uponit7771
Dec 2020
#4
+1, I would accept it if there were a multitude of polling showing these ideas hurt down ballot dems
uponit7771
Dec 2020
#9
There are exit polls as well as earlier polls showing this would hurt us...and I have posted some
Demsrule86
Dec 2020
#31
There are no exit polls showing down ballot dems who were up outside of MOE losing because of DTP
uponit7771
Dec 2020
#53
We need to see it, I agree with the article. Dems being told something without seeing the evidence
uponit7771
Dec 2020
#11
Like the article said, there's no proof of it out there posted for the public showing that DTP was
uponit7771
Dec 2020
#43
You've not sited one poll of what's being requested, I disagree with Biden's assessment without
uponit7771
Dec 2020
#52
You're asking to prove a negative from the person that didn't make the assertion
uponit7771
Dec 2020
#77
polling 'evidence' may well show republican's exploiting something someone said
bigtree
Dec 2020
#18
Yeah! a little help would be appreciated. You don't have to say every damn thing.
Demsrule86
Dec 2020
#36
THANK YOU !!! Claiming a slogan that kGOP associated with dems was a gating factor in losses of
uponit7771
Dec 2020
#59
Biden who said from the beginning in the primary he did not want to defund the police won by
Demsrule86
Dec 2020
#24
We had a good chance to win those seats...we have won every year since Trump was elected...so you
Demsrule86
Dec 2020
#37
Denial, denial and denial...just stop. It is clear that we need moderates with moderate views
Demsrule86
Dec 2020
#13
All of that is still not evidence but anecdote. For instance republicans openly enable racism and
uponit7771
Dec 2020
#14
There is polling evidence...but you all don't want it to be true so you won't accept it which is
Demsrule86
Dec 2020
#29
That's not polling evidence of DTP being the reason down ballot dems lost when they were ahead
uponit7771
Dec 2020
#45
You can google all the polls before and after the election...many saying that defund the police,
Demsrule86
Dec 2020
#48
There's not one poll of what I'm requesting IE the reason why the article was written. You can't
uponit7771
Dec 2020
#51
That's just arguing about window dressing instead of fixing the foundation, which is our structural
liskddksil
Dec 2020
#39
+1, a lot of responses here are just repeating what the article is sounding off about; anecdotal ...
uponit7771
Dec 2020
#50
Or evidence? There's not one poll anywhere showing DTP etc is reason why down ballot dems who were
uponit7771
Dec 2020
#54
I agree with the author, we need empirical proof that it was a deciding factor on losses not guesses
uponit7771
Dec 2020
#57
Then dem infrastructure would've picked up on it and responded right? NO !!! That's what the author
uponit7771
Dec 2020
#65
Obvious falacous question aside we agree dtp wasn't the best slogan for winning
uponit7771
Dec 2020
#73
"...Perhaps better framing on the part of Democrats would help..." 👈🏾👈🏾👈🏾 THIS !!! Either dems
uponit7771
Dec 2020
#62
Then that's infrastructure not progressives !! You're citing is agreeing with the author, its not ..
uponit7771
Dec 2020
#66
No empirical evidence of it was a slogan that was a gating factor in any of the losses and are you..
uponit7771
Dec 2020
#74
This is polling of the popularity of sentiment not whether or not said sentiment was attached to ...
uponit7771
Dec 2020
#67
You mean what democrats told them about the slogan right? If no then democrats should have responded
uponit7771
Dec 2020
#75