General Discussion

wnylib

(26,191 posts)

138. But I cannot stand by accepting

Mon Jan 4, 2021, 03:52 AM

Jan 2021

the destruction of a nation based on the legal definition. Yes, I believe in a government of laws, not of personalities, whims, force, or vigilantism. I believe that we must use all legal means of fighting back.

But I also believe that there must be some legal recourse in dealing with such abuse and manipulation of the system with the intent to seize absolute power, especially when we know the kind of violence and abuse that would exist under such an absolute system.

It won't work this time, but some legal changes are needed before the next time.

I have serious concerns about the Georgia vote, no matter which way it goes. It's one thing for the GA governor and secretary of state to take a stand against Trump, but will they be as firm about having two (or even one more) Democratic Senators? And we know what Trump and his gang will make of a Democratic win there. More claims of fraud and demands of recounts, court cases, demonstrations, etc.

Trump et.al. are on the edge of full blown violence. They are pushing for it, hoping for it, begging for it. When they cross that line even farther than they have already done, where will our laws and legal positions be?

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Reality Check: This is a very serious "coup attempt" [View all] kentuck Jan 2021 OP

Well said, kentuck... secondwind Jan 2021 #1

Well said, but DownriverDem Jan 2021 #72

Start with getting rid of the Electoral College KS Toronado Jan 2021 #102

The Electoral College - soldierant Jan 2021 #120

President Biden needs to make some changes, gab13by13 Jan 2021 #2

What changes would you suggest? States run their own elections...and the constiutuion Demsrule86 Jan 2021 #14

Prosecutions for sedition for a start. Nt Fiendish Thingy Jan 2021 #15

No person has ever been prosecuted nor convicted of sedition...and going to court...using Demsrule86 Jan 2021 #19

Amen to that Joinfortmill Jan 2021 #26

But if there is zero evidence of fraud and they keep claiming fraud... Buckeyeblue Jan 2021 #51

reaching bdamomma Jan 2021 #55

Claiming an election was stolen without evidence of fraud is not sedition StarfishSaver Jan 2021 #64

"Claiming" it is not sedition. luvtheGWN Jan 2021 #71

That's not sedition, either StarfishSaver Jan 2021 #74

This is how democracies die, by wnylib Jan 2021 #92

Sedition is defined in the law as an attempt to overthrow the government by force StarfishSaver Jan 2021 #93

But I cannot stand by accepting wnylib Jan 2021 #138

Who said you have to "stand by and accept" anything "based on a legal definition"? StarfishSaver Jan 2021 #140

18 U.S. Code � 2384 - Seditious conspiracy Cyberologist Jan 2021 #142

... StarfishSaver Jan 2021 #143

Actually, it as least very, very close to sedition. BobTheSubgenius Jan 2021 #115

Close isn't good enough when it comes to criminality StarfishSaver Jan 2021 #116

The criminals have been summoned to Washington by the Big Con... pbmus Jan 2021 #134

This message was self-deleted by its author pbmus Jan 2021 #136

There is no way to prove there is 'zero evidence of fraud' I do not think saying fraud was involved Demsrule86 Jan 2021 #67

Someone once said: All politics is local. Ligyron Jan 2021 #59

Thank you StarfishSaver Jan 2021 #63

I was reluctant to believe that wnylib Jan 2021 #75

There have been numerous convictions for seditious conspiracy Fiendish Thingy Jan 2021 #97

An action need not be committed. soldierant Jan 2021 #122

Trump has been inciting violence Mr.Bill Jan 2021 #135

Yes, every last one of these House & Senate members who contest Biden's win. If Dems don't do this onetexan Jan 2021 #65

Definitely - but not by President Biden. soldierant Jan 2021 #121

If we win Georgia there's a lot we can do - See article below. Joinfortmill Jan 2021 #28

Thanks for the information. Demsrule86 Jan 2021 #47

Everyone should read your link, thank you, gab13by13 Jan 2021 #58

Very valid points. Joinfortmill Jan 2021 #45

Falling in love is a BIG problem, especially with new voters. CrispyQ Jan 2021 #109

This is a good one! NoRoadUntravelled Jan 2021 #130

Maybe there's nothing they won't try, but I think they've run out of things to try. Towlie Jan 2021 #3

I think that may be wishful thinking? kentuck Jan 2021 #4

And if not this one by 2024 they will have a candidate every bit as bad as trump but with a brain. HUAJIAO Jan 2021 #6

No doubt, they will try. kentuck Jan 2021 #10

Eternal vigilance is ALWAYS required StarfishSaver Jan 2021 #66

My husband and I were both in the Army Security Agency. marie999 Jan 2021 #84

Blaming Dems for decades of repuke malfeasance starting with pbmus Jan 2021 #137

The clone is never as good as the original. greymattermom Jan 2021 #30

I hope so too... HUAJIAO Jan 2021 #46

Hawley is that guy birdographer Jan 2021 #126

Agreed.... HUAJIAO Jan 2021 #128

Stop with the fear mongering...they won't succeed this time...had they controlled the House they Demsrule86 Jan 2021 #21

Respectfully, I don't think this is fearmongering. Joinfortmill Jan 2021 #25

Agreed. cilla4progress Jan 2021 #52

Yes, it is a very serious attempt to illegitimately overthrow our government. Roisin Ni Fiachra Jan 2021 #5

Tilting at windmills ...even if there is rioting, there will be no such charges that are sustainable Demsrule86 Jan 2021 #22

Exactly right. They are arrogant fascists. Joinfortmill Jan 2021 #23

If "We The People" don't DEMAND Trump Cultists heads on pikes... Tiger8 Jan 2021 #57

Great idea! Roisin Ni Fiachra Jan 2021 #61

Yes Pressure GroupPopular Uprising Tiger8 Jan 2021 #87

I see a majority of Repubs not supporting Trump. Kaleva Jan 2021 #7

Thank you Kaleva. We are going to inaugurate Biden period. Demsrule86 Jan 2021 #24

I am going bdamomma Jan 2021 #60

I have not seen Trump's support grow since the election and seen evidence that it's diminished Kaleva Jan 2021 #117

They may not be agitating for this but Bettie Jan 2021 #108

Can someone ask any of them on camera TNNurse Jan 2021 #8

I watch news...and of course this is an unbelievable time. I have seen GOP types asked Demsrule86 Jan 2021 #27

My thought is the Dirty Dozen SHOULD show evidence BEFORE bluestarone Jan 2021 #85

Do not forget that before November 3 he was calling for Biden to be arrested malaise Jan 2021 #9

Republicans attempting this coup will not succeed--this time. Lonestarblue Jan 2021 #11

It is the damage that is being done and the destruction of our institutions... kentuck Jan 2021 #12

That's what really sucks about this. Burning it all down except what they want. True Tyranny. nt Evolve Dammit Jan 2021 #107

That assumes Dems do nothing. Let's hope that is not the case. Joinfortmill Jan 2021 #20

If we support our candidates and don't turn on them because they are not ideologically Demsrule86 Jan 2021 #39

Exactly! treestar Jan 2021 #119

They don't appreciate the concept of democracy. jaxexpat Jan 2021 #13

I sorta blame 'The Participation Trophy' Mindset Tommymac Jan 2021 #16

I don't know. Turin_C3PO Jan 2021 #44

good point. And the participation trophy is still just that treestar Jan 2021 #118

The only people I ever hear who prattle on about participation trophy mindsets kcr Jan 2021 #99

I guess I don't live a sheltered life. Tommymac Jan 2021 #125

"I wouldn't know" kcr Jan 2021 #131

I was about to dismiss your thought with points similar to those already made in replies to you, Dark n Stormy Knight Jan 2021 #123

Hey thanks for the good thought provoking reply. Tommymac Jan 2021 #124

Each of us has a duty to apply whatever pressure we can. ariadne0614 Jan 2021 #17

The GOP has become the party of fascists. Joinfortmill Jan 2021 #18

+1,, the word isn't used enough, especially by the taking heads (CNN, MSNBC etc). nt Hotler Jan 2021 #69

It is incumbent upon us all to recognize the situation we face, in the most realistic and honest way Ferrets are Cool Jan 2021 #29

Understand and communicate. kentuck Jan 2021 #32

I am missing their plan here... Jon King Jan 2021 #31

That is a puzzle?? kentuck Jan 2021 #35

No, they don't think that far ahead.... paleotn Jan 2021 #42

That does seem to be the case. kentuck Jan 2021 #48

It certainly is short sighted.. Jon King Jan 2021 #78

Oh, I think I know that one! RVN VET71 Jan 2021 #36

The "military" may not follow Trump's wishes for his "coup" but... kentuck Jan 2021 #41

They don't think anti-Trump people would go ballistic in large numbers. David__77 Jan 2021 #114

It is. But your Reality Check isn't clear about "where we are." ancianita Jan 2021 #33

"The biggest lesson learned, imo, is that enforcement of law is structurally WEAK..." kentuck Jan 2021 #34

The facts of structural weakness are clear. They're not at all up for debate as such. ancianita Jan 2021 #37

That is why the next AG is so important. kentuck Jan 2021 #43

That won't strengthen enforcement unless Congress restructures Rule of Law for the AG and DOJ. ancianita Jan 2021 #49

Yes, when they cannot even enforce a subpoena... kentuck Jan 2021 #103

I think court enforcement reform might take two houses, though. ancianita Jan 2021 #105

Perhaps? kentuck Jan 2021 #106

Not a lawyer, but my layman's guess is that both houses have to agree on amendments to law. ancianita Jan 2021 #111

They thought they could do this -- Tom Delay's 100 year gop reign -- without a coup, but wiggs Jan 2021 #38

Turns out, 40% of our population likes sedition. They like fascism. They like racism. paleotn Jan 2021 #40

That leaves 60% who favor democracy MyMission Jan 2021 #91

Not to be funny bdamomma Jan 2021 #50

Their attacks are leaving us feeling vulnerable liberal N proud Jan 2021 #53

Because, in reality, we are. ancianita Jan 2021 #54

a good portion of trumps "charm" is his total lack of a brain. bullimiami Jan 2021 #56

I found Steve Schmidt's 3 long threads last night cilla4progress Jan 2021 #62

Yes, he takes this seriously. This is a continuation of autocrats rising up and splitting off, and wiggs Jan 2021 #70

Looks like he was on with cilla4progress Jan 2021 #73

I'll read him, but he should name names. Cruz, Hawley and Graham are lining up and I don't ancianita Jan 2021 #77

Yes! cilla4progress Jan 2021 #81

Well, until our party hardens the judiciary and structures, in writing, with specific penalties and ancianita Jan 2021 #83

The numbers simply do not add up. MineralMan Jan 2021 #68

Completely agree jmbar2 Jan 2021 #89

Might they not try to change the rules? skip fox Jan 2021 #94

Rules changes at this stage are unlikely. MineralMan Jan 2021 #95

I watch them all. Too much of the time. skip fox Jan 2021 #96

Just read thru all these comments. Arne Jan 2021 #76

Yep. ancianita Jan 2021 #80

He hasn't overthrown the Republican Party. hotrod0808 Jan 2021 #79

They know there is no downside for them Kablooie Jan 2021 #82

I call it a manic, hysterical attempt to stay out of jail. ananda Jan 2021 #86

I am actually cautiously optimistic longer term... Jon King Jan 2021 #88

I think this is one cilla4progress Jan 2021 #90

When this fails bucolic_frolic Jan 2021 #98

In total agreement kentuck. No telling where all this is headed. sarchasm Jan 2021 #100

Yes, I am worried about what will transpire on Jan. 6 and beyond. Music Man Jan 2021 #101

It's no longer just a question of voting. We need to get involved at the grass roots level. BarbD Jan 2021 #104

Meh BannonsLiver Jan 2021 #110

It may well come to nothing. In fact, I'm certain of it. BobTheSubgenius Jan 2021 #113

Tell it to the MSM and after that you might light a fire under our DLC leaders. Ford_Prefect Jan 2021 #112

I have heard about the demise of the Rs since Bush yet they still are in power and do what they want Pepsidog Jan 2021 #127

This Party Has Gone Crazy colsohlibgal Jan 2021 #129

This message was self-deleted by its author OverBurn Jan 2021 #132

Kick! burrowowl Jan 2021 #133

I'm less worried than I was srobertss Jan 2021 #139

Umm this is not an attempt, this is a straight up coup Cyberologist Jan 2021 #141

kentuck knew what he was talking about. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Jan 2021 #144