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In reply to the discussion: Questions about the "sovereign citizen" movement and "American state national" vs citizen. [View all]muriel_volestrangler
(106,642 posts)10. It's teh basis for various scams, some against the government, some against the gullible
One way sovereigns try to make the imaginary money real is by abusing legitimate I.R.S. forms. Law-abiding taxpayers use Form 1099-OID, for example, to report original issue discount income. But some sovereigns write in fake OID income, and fake withholding, in order to claim illegitimate refunds. If you file such a return, you risk at the very least a large fine. Yet from 2012 to 2014, according to the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration, the I.R.S. received close to 7,000 sham OID filings.
Chronically underfunded and understaffed, I.R.S. investigators refer only about two dozen sovereign-scam cases, on average, for prosecution each year. The agency sometimes misses returns that should raise suspicion. For example, in 2016, the I.R.S. discovered a sizable redemption scheme but only after processing 207 bogus returns and disbursing more than $43 million. Thats another reason these strange theories persist, and have begun to leach out of the sovereign network and into the general population: Sometimes, improbably, they work.
...
It was around this time that the Mortons turned to hawking the debt-erasing sovereign scheme known as the bond process. Over two years, they helped people around the country send nearly two dozen fake bonds to the I.R.S., Quicken Loans, PennyMac, Bank of America, Chase Bank and the treasurers office in Contra Costa County, California. Early in 2015, Barbara Lavender, the woman whose husband met Mr. Morton at a U.F.O. conference, gave him a call.
...
To wipe out her $70,000 balance, he suggested Ms. Lavender should send him $2,500, or less than 4 percent of what she owed. She and her husband believed Mr. Morton had discovered the sort of workaround rich people find. You know, she testified later. You hear it all the time: wealthy with tax loopholes, and that kind of thing.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/29/business/sovereign-citizens-financial-crime.html
Chronically underfunded and understaffed, I.R.S. investigators refer only about two dozen sovereign-scam cases, on average, for prosecution each year. The agency sometimes misses returns that should raise suspicion. For example, in 2016, the I.R.S. discovered a sizable redemption scheme but only after processing 207 bogus returns and disbursing more than $43 million. Thats another reason these strange theories persist, and have begun to leach out of the sovereign network and into the general population: Sometimes, improbably, they work.
...
It was around this time that the Mortons turned to hawking the debt-erasing sovereign scheme known as the bond process. Over two years, they helped people around the country send nearly two dozen fake bonds to the I.R.S., Quicken Loans, PennyMac, Bank of America, Chase Bank and the treasurers office in Contra Costa County, California. Early in 2015, Barbara Lavender, the woman whose husband met Mr. Morton at a U.F.O. conference, gave him a call.
...
To wipe out her $70,000 balance, he suggested Ms. Lavender should send him $2,500, or less than 4 percent of what she owed. She and her husband believed Mr. Morton had discovered the sort of workaround rich people find. You know, she testified later. You hear it all the time: wealthy with tax loopholes, and that kind of thing.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/29/business/sovereign-citizens-financial-crime.html
It also has link to the "Posse Commitatus" movement, and include some seriously violent individuals, who have gone as far as killing police officers. Yes, worry about anyone falling for it. They're in danger of getting scammed, of being persuaded to try and defraud the government or others, or of getting mixed up in far right violence. If she actually believes this stuff, she'd no longer capable of looking after her own money without breaking the law. Maybe a relative could get someone appointed to run her affairs?
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Questions about the "sovereign citizen" movement and "American state national" vs citizen. [View all]
niyad
Feb 2021
OP
I don't know about the rest of them, but this woman has worked hard all her life, has worked
niyad
Feb 2021
#6
The Sovereign Citizen movement is often seen as more dangerous as even neo-Nazi movements
WhiskeyGrinder
Feb 2021
#4
Saw it in the nineties. Some are serious about it. Others support it because they
Baitball Blogger
Feb 2021
#9
It's teh basis for various scams, some against the government, some against the gullible
muriel_volestrangler
Feb 2021
#10
I know that she would never scam anyone, and she is a committed peace activist. But she
niyad
Feb 2021
#17
It sounds like she's willing to break the law for trivial gain, though,
muriel_volestrangler
Feb 2021
#19
She does have family, who might step,in if it gets worse. All she has is social security, no other
niyad
Feb 2021
#20
Yes, "the masses are being brain washed." And many are incredibly gullible and ignorant. n/t
RKP5637
Feb 2021
#12
I have known someone like this for a few years in the past. IMO, she is more than likely
walkingman
Feb 2021
#15
Should I wait to view those videos until it is late enough to drink? It was bad enough just reading
niyad
Feb 2021
#25