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muriel_volestrangler

(106,642 posts)
10. It's teh basis for various scams, some against the government, some against the gullible
Sun Feb 28, 2021, 12:52 PM
Feb 2021
One way sovereigns try to make the imaginary money real is by abusing legitimate I.R.S. forms. Law-abiding taxpayers use Form 1099-OID, for example, to report “original issue discount” income. But some sovereigns write in fake OID income, and fake withholding, in order to claim illegitimate refunds. If you file such a return, you risk at the very least a large fine. Yet from 2012 to 2014, according to the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration, the I.R.S. received close to 7,000 sham OID filings.

Chronically underfunded and understaffed, I.R.S. investigators refer only about two dozen sovereign-scam cases, on average, for prosecution each year. The agency sometimes misses returns that should raise suspicion. For example, in 2016, the I.R.S. discovered a sizable redemption scheme — but only after processing 207 bogus returns and disbursing more than $43 million. That’s another reason these strange theories persist, and have begun to leach out of the sovereign network and into the general population: Sometimes, improbably, they work.
...
It was around this time that the Mortons turned to hawking the debt-erasing sovereign scheme known as the “bond process.” Over two years, they helped people around the country send nearly two dozen fake bonds to the I.R.S., Quicken Loans, PennyMac, Bank of America, Chase Bank and the treasurer’s office in Contra Costa County, California. Early in 2015, Barbara Lavender, the woman whose husband met Mr. Morton at a U.F.O. conference, gave him a call.
...
To wipe out her $70,000 balance, he suggested Ms. Lavender should send him $2,500, or less than 4 percent of what she owed. She and her husband believed Mr. Morton had discovered the sort of workaround rich people find. “You know,” she testified later. “You hear it all the time: ‘wealthy with tax loopholes,’ and that kind of thing.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/29/business/sovereign-citizens-financial-crime.html

It also has link to the "Posse Commitatus" movement, and include some seriously violent individuals, who have gone as far as killing police officers. Yes, worry about anyone falling for it. They're in danger of getting scammed, of being persuaded to try and defraud the government or others, or of getting mixed up in far right violence. If she actually believes this stuff, she'd no longer capable of looking after her own money without breaking the law. Maybe a relative could get someone appointed to run her affairs?

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

A few nights in jail or big fines will fix that - maybe jpak Feb 2021 #1
It's just empty-headed libertarianism taken to its empty-headed Aristus Feb 2021 #2
✔️ blm Feb 2021 #28
In a nutshell Javaman Feb 2021 #3
I don't know about the rest of them, but this woman has worked hard all her life, has worked niyad Feb 2021 #6
The Sovereign Citizen movement is often seen as more dangerous as even neo-Nazi movements WhiskeyGrinder Feb 2021 #4
That first line is really disturbing. Looks like I have cause to worry. niyad Feb 2021 #7
How sad... mwmisses4289 Feb 2021 #5
The SLPC has good information on the Sovereign Citizens Movement ADK Feb 2021 #8
Thank you. That was the kind of information ?I was hoping to find. niyad Feb 2021 #13
Saw it in the nineties. Some are serious about it. Others support it because they Baitball Blogger Feb 2021 #9
She is not a scammer. She seriously believes the bs. niyad Feb 2021 #14
This is what serious sovereigntist did in the nineties: Baitball Blogger Feb 2021 #18
It's teh basis for various scams, some against the government, some against the gullible muriel_volestrangler Feb 2021 #10
I know that she would never scam anyone, and she is a committed peace activist. But she niyad Feb 2021 #17
It sounds like she's willing to break the law for trivial gain, though, muriel_volestrangler Feb 2021 #19
Thank you for the clarity of that last sentence. niyad Feb 2021 #21
She does have family, who might step,in if it gets worse. All she has is social security, no other niyad Feb 2021 #20
This anti democracy movement has swept in all kinds of conspiracy nuts tulipsandroses Feb 2021 #11
Yes, "the masses are being brain washed." And many are incredibly gullible and ignorant. n/t RKP5637 Feb 2021 #12
Having known many wannabes, I agree taxi Feb 2021 #27
That site froze my computer twice. niyad Feb 2021 #32
Thank you. I edited above. taxi Feb 2021 #33
Thank you. niyad Feb 2021 #37
I have known someone like this for a few years in the past. IMO, she is more than likely walkingman Feb 2021 #15
I am afraid that she is fairly far down it, and falling rapidly. niyad Feb 2021 #22
There's a tax attorney in S.C. SCantiGOP Feb 2021 #16
YouTube is filled with videos about sovereign citizens trying to talk Politicub Feb 2021 #23
Should I wait to view those videos until it is late enough to drink? It was bad enough just reading niyad Feb 2021 #25
Yes. those can be quite entertaining treestar Feb 2021 #35
You can always ask her informative questions: struggle4progress Feb 2021 #24
Those are most informative. My first response is that she would answer "of course not". But I have n niyad Feb 2021 #26
You could focus on automobile issues: struggle4progress Feb 2021 #36
Here's a good break down on it, with history and references: TroubleMan Feb 2021 #29
Thank you. That was most informative. niyad Feb 2021 #34
Many have tried that. None have succeeded. MineralMan Feb 2021 #30
The Sovereign Citizen movement is filled with dangerous people UpInArms Feb 2021 #31
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