General Discussion

tonedevil

(3,022 posts)

254. I'm not disputing you...

Sun May 2, 2021, 06:27 PM

May 2021

The first article you posted showed that most of the people arrested were from an area that could easily be considered local. Which absolutely supports what you said about the makeup of the participants. I know nothing further regarding rioting in Kenosha. Were there protests that turned into riots? Did protesters become violent at some point? Was there outside agitation? Did the police escalate the violence?
The first link in your current post did lead me to find out this is where Kyle Rittenhouse decided to murder protesters. So there was some outside agitation. The police did give Kyle and some of his vigilante buddies water before he started shooting people and let him escape after he did. I'm going to say I suspect some over exhauburance on the part of that police department. I do admit I can't point to anything other than the cozy relationship with vigilantes and not bothering to detain the guy who shot a couple of people to death.

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Just saw Kamau Bell on CNN still defending the phrase "defund the police". [View all] brush May 2021 OP

Not a fan of his. Treefrog May 2021 #1

Ok, but what do you feel about what the OP is about? brush May 2021 #5

I think he's wrong on this too. Treefrog May 2021 #209

I never had an opinion on him but after seeing his work here locally misanthrope May 2021 #13

"Defund the Police" Was A Gift to Republicans. It Cost Us Close House Elections That We Won in 2018. Indykatie May 2021 #2

Yes. That dumb phrase took off and it hurt us. brush May 2021 #4

Do you have any polling showing it cost us? Not polling of DTP popularity but polling that voters uponit7771 May 2021 #15

Come on...it hurt us. When people insist on polls, usually they know the truth. It hurts us Demsrule86 May 2021 #21

Facts matter, people get impressions that are wrong. For instance, slavery is still ... uponit7771 May 2021 #25

"due to bad campaigning not a slogan" hurl May 2021 #134

I'd agree with the 2nd sentence ... IF... the candidate ascribed to the slogan but few to no one uponit7771 May 2021 #136

Counter-attacks won't matter hurl May 2021 #137

Ask Trump if they work, if in kind and with merritt counters do work if the lie is caught quickly uponit7771 May 2021 #138

You are defending a campaign/policy slogan ... Whiskeytide May 2021 #152

Not defending the slogan, my position is 1. there's no exit polling or close to proof that it was uponit7771 May 2021 #155

Post removed Post removed May 2021 #162

Ad homs are an indicator of a weak position and even you agree that allowing reps to define ... uponit7771 May 2021 #168

That's all great advice, and I agree with your premise. But the slogan is still ... Whiskeytide May 2021 #289

What district do you live in? How did defund resonate there? caber09 May 2021 #161

Agreed, I don't need a study to know jumping off a roof is bad for me Amishman May 2021 #30

True, but to show it was a gating factor no one has done with anything empirical. One poster ... uponit7771 May 2021 #108

Stop denying what happened, you look foolish caber09 May 2021 #163

Accepting only anecdotes when hard evidence could be available is what's foolish uponit7771 May 2021 #180

Here's an article stating that polling shows it very much affected us. FlyingPiggy May 2021 #32

I thought this was common knowledge by now. nt Kahuna May 2021 #45

I think there are some who refuse to believe the power of wording FlyingPiggy May 2021 #62

It's knowledge.. it happened.. But some Cha May 2021 #72

Good article LetMyPeopleVote May 2021 #54

... lapucelle May 2021 #185

Not an exit poll or anything close to it, got anything post election saying people didn't vote uponit7771 May 2021 #104

I'm old enough to recall myriad times republicans have turned Dem slogans against us bigtree May 2021 #201

+1000 StarfishSaver May 2021 #208

That is exactly what RW smear machine does. They attack everything. FlyingPiggy May 2021 #221

we 'help' them when we wring our hands and scold, instead of fighting back bigtree May 2021 #255

No one is scolding. They're saying the obvious that the wording FlyingPiggy May 2021 #257

all I can hear: bigtree May 2021 #261

A key excerpt from that article, in answer to those repeatedly saying "show us the polls...." George II May 2021 #218

Read the material posted on other threads LetMyPeopleVote May 2021 #52

None of that is exit polling data etc. answer the question about the Biden and Beef for me uponit7771 May 2021 #53

Again you are wrong LetMyPeopleVote May 2021 #55

Those aren't exit polls or post polling data, "These ads were effective" is an opinion not ... uponit7771 May 2021 #57

You really do not tire of being wrong? It is amusing LetMyPeopleVote May 2021 #59

Do you understand what exit / post vote polling data is? thx in advance uponit7771 May 2021 #60

How 'Defund the Police' Roiled Competitive Races in New York LetMyPeopleVote May 2021 #65

The article pins a lot of blame... tonedevil May 2021 #70

+1, the article is also very jaded seeing there was no national movement to dtp and few to no uponit7771 May 2021 #113

No. But clearly messaging is important. Drunken Irishman May 2021 #173

Who do you think started the riots? tonedevil May 2021 #177

In Kenosha? Probably local residents. Drunken Irishman May 2021 #244

That just tells who got arrested... tonedevil May 2021 #249

You asked the question. I answered it as best I could. Drunken Irishman May 2021 #252

I'm not disputing you... tonedevil May 2021 #254

Sigh, still no exit polling or anything like it... I'm done ...If you can't find the data no one can uponit7771 May 2021 #109

Do you tire of being wrong LetMyPeopleVote May 2021 #114

Posting an article falsely claiming there was a nationwide move to defund the police is false ... uponit7771 May 2021 #115

You are not telling the truth LetMyPeopleVote May 2021 #117

'Defund the Police' Backfired on Democrats LetMyPeopleVote May 2021 #68

It doesn't matter how much anyone denies Cha May 2021 #76

This post gets my Rec. Thanks. Hekate May 2021 #78

Oh please with this. You're not the first one to try this weak argument here. brush May 2021 #69

I was kinda surprised too.. but Cha May 2021 #80

Hey, Cha. Good to hear from you. And you're right, not much surprises nowadays. brush May 2021 #86

You too, brush.. it's so frustrating to Cha May 2021 #97

No credible exit polls exist for dtp and not one has been shown so far. If dtp was such a gating ... uponit7771 May 2021 #106

Please! Other posters have sent you links proving dtp had a disastrous... brush May 2021 #118

They weren't exit polls or anything like it, please don't jump on band wagons without knowing why uponit7771 May 2021 #133

New Post-Election Poll Reveals How Democrats' Leftward Movement Cost the Party in the 2020 Election LetMyPeopleVote May 2021 #87

There was no movement across the country to defund the police as this polls says this attempt uponit7771 May 2021 #103

Post removed Post removed May 2021 #164

Calling people stupid, foolish and telling them to shut up is probably not going to help StarfishSaver May 2021 #165

Post removed Post removed May 2021 #167

Sounds like you're having a pretty bad night. StarfishSaver May 2021 #169

Well yeah, you're right we should allow reps to define us first and falsely that worked great 🙄 uponit7771 May 2021 #171

When the Cooperative Congressional Election Study 2020 Data Guide is released lapucelle May 2021 #184

Please stop denying the obvious.. caber09 May 2021 #160

Anecdotes are not data uponit7771 May 2021 #172

Yes absolutely. Owl May 2021 #58

Yep. And this is what is being referred to as 'wokeness' redqueen May 2021 #276

This message was self-deleted by its author brush May 2021 #3

Stupid beyond belief oswaldactedalone May 2021 #6

Remake, Reshape, Reinvent, Transform, De-Militarise, Re-control, Refashion, Celerity May 2021 #12

None of that works...that will still be protrayed as defunding the police. We need to reform the Demsrule86 May 2021 #23

some of those terms are not loaded and are not the same old tired ass 'reform' bollocks that has Celerity May 2021 #24

Reform is a process and that is what is needed...not reforming police departments exactly. Demsrule86 May 2021 #27

I taked about nothing other than better branding so I do not know what you mean by this: Celerity May 2021 #29

What you say makes sense but, sorry, "reform" is played. It's tired as it's been slung about... brush May 2021 #75

Reform is a feelgood word that means nothing. StarfishSaver May 2021 #143

Good ones. I particullary like "reshape" and "Deracialize". brush May 2021 #99

Fuck the Police tonedevil May 2021 #7

Of course, but do you care to comment on the wisdom of the phrase "defund the police"... brush May 2021 #8

The cowardice of Democratic candidates... tonedevil May 2021 #9

Cowardice how? brush May 2021 #10

When Hillary Clinton said... tonedevil May 2021 #11

+1, ... they should've backed her up saying they're enabling an out and out racist, sexual ... uponit7771 May 2021 #17

Yep StarfishSaver May 2021 #48

THIS !!!! ☝🏾☝🏾☝🏾 ... and they show ... ***NO PROOF*** in any exit polling of voters that DTP was uponit7771 May 2021 #16

There is no proof, but since even our local Dem activists were questioning whether it meant... TreasonousBastard May 2021 #18

I agree with the poster that we should own the SENTIMENT and tell the nazi kkkons to fuck off uponit7771 May 2021 #19

If you are in the street... tonedevil May 2021 #63

This board is made up of activists with long histories of protesting in the streets so can the... brush May 2021 #102

I guess the protesters forgot... tonedevil May 2021 #105

Sigh StarfishSaver May 2021 #111

Brains (critcal thinking) can be a focus group on the fly at steet level. brush May 2021 #119

You just had to be there... tonedevil May 2021 #123

Been there and done that many times. Never thought up such a stupid slogan though. brush May 2021 #125

Good for you. /nt tonedevil May 2021 #126

Thank you StarfishSaver May 2021 #107

Somehow... tonedevil May 2021 #112

... but we'll let you know when it is. In the meantime, be careful not to annoy or offend us StarfishSaver May 2021 #116

"they are the cause of most of the violence." maybe you do have to explain? EX500rider May 2021 #146

Kamau Bell is an official of the Democratic Party? ChrisF1961 May 2021 #14

Wait...what? Where did anybody claim that W Camau Bell didn't have the right to express his opinion? lapucelle May 2021 #31

Counterproductive to whom? ChrisF1961 May 2021 #35

Pushing a misinterpreted slogan associated with the Democratic Party hurts Democrats. lapucelle May 2021 #40

Why is it associated with the Democratic Party? ChrisF1961 May 2021 #43

What are you talking about? N/T lapucelle May 2021 #47

You claimed ChrisF1961 May 2021 #61

Why would it matter whether Bell did that? lapucelle May 2021 #64

I'm talking about Bell ChrisF1961 May 2021 #66

Yes, I know, as is the OP. N/T lapucelle May 2021 #67

No the op is denouncing Bell ChrisF1961 May 2021 #74

OmG.. TY! Jeeze! Cha May 2021 #93

I know. lapucelle May 2021 #95

Hey Aloha!💙 Cha May 2021 #101

Huh? Were you asleep during the massive, worldwide protests last summer... brush May 2021 #82

So if the right wing media says something ChrisF1961 May 2021 #85

Dude, Please. No one here is saying it's true. It's how it affects voters. brush May 2021 #90

Why is it Bell's responsibility to affect voters? ChrisF1961 May 2021 #96

I see you're new to this. If you're a Democrat and want to see Democratic candidates... brush May 2021 #100

But Bell is not affiliated with the Democratic Party ChrisF1961 May 2021 #122

Who's censoring him? Just as he can, we can also express our opionions on dumb opinions. brush May 2021 #124

You are not the arbiter... tonedevil May 2021 #127

We alreay knew you were a defund the police fan. IMO it's the dumbest slogan ever. brush May 2021 #128

Express away... tonedevil May 2021 #129

There is a difference between calling ChrisF1961 May 2021 #130

Thank you StarfishSaver May 2021 #139

Huh? Kamau Bell is a well known progressive. brush May 2021 #233

So ChrisF1961 May 2021 #238

Please just stop you look foolish peddling your bs, go on keep costing us elections caber09 May 2021 #166

How is it BS to say that Bell is not ChrisF1961 May 2021 #179

Is that the only criteria for you, that one be an "official" or "spokesman" of the Democratic Party? George II May 2021 #204

Oh, come on. That's a weird defense. StarfishSaver May 2021 #207

Doubtful ChrisF1961 May 2021 #216

But is Bell a registered Democrat? ChrisF1961 May 2021 #215

Is he a registered Democrat? If so, he's "affiliated with the Democratic Party". George II May 2021 #205

But you don't know that he is, do you? StarfishSaver May 2021 #210

I have a Netflix membership ChrisF1961 May 2021 #217

Do you know his party registration? ChrisF1961 May 2021 #214

And even if he is a registered Dem, expressing his opinion on a topic is not speaking for the party StarfishSaver May 2021 #222

True ChrisF1961 May 2021 #224

Within minutes of that phrase being uttered, trump and the gop were on it. nt Kahuna May 2021 #265

Thank you StarfishSaver May 2021 #33

Yeah yeah.. and anyone can Disagree Cha May 2021 #83

Sure everyone is free to disagree ChrisF1961 May 2021 #88

I Disagree.. the OP is Right on Target! Cha May 2021 #98

So Bell shouldn't be allowed to express ChrisF1961 May 2021 #120

Sure, hey Fox, OAN, Newsmax, RT do it all the time. Budi May 2021 #223

As long as it's not a lie ChrisF1961 May 2021 #225

You're equating Bell expressing his opinion about DTP with what Fox, et al, do? StarfishSaver May 2021 #226

I'm equating the argument that Bell can say whatever, damaging or not, on a public forum,... Budi May 2021 #228

I'll bet you couldn't describe one other thing Bell has said or a position he's taken or whether StarfishSaver May 2021 #230

Well, it appears by the proof within this OP that Bell has indeed promoted ... Budi May 2021 #232

As I said, you can't come up with anything else that Bell has said that you're aware of StarfishSaver May 2021 #237

I don't care about what ELSE Bell says or does. I addressed the point of the OP Budi May 2021 #239

Losing house seats isn't as big of deal as not having a veto proof majority in the Senate AZProgressive May 2021 #20

Agreed Nexus2 May 2021 #22

Great policy ibegurpard May 2021 #26

What do *you* think this man, a professional communicator, should say instead? WhiskeyGrinder May 2021 #28

One would hope that a "professional communicator" would say something more incisive and lapucelle May 2021 #34

That's perfection, actually. WhiskeyGrinder May 2021 #36

It's ageist. There's no "perfection" in dismissing a demographic known for showing up at the polls. lapucelle May 2021 #38

James Carville is a whole demographic? WhiskeyGrinder May 2021 #39

"Grandpa" represents a major demographic. lapucelle May 2021 #41

You haven't figured it out yet? StarfishSaver May 2021 #49

Yep, especially if they agree with him. WhiskeyGrinder May 2021 #50

Exactly. I was watching that CNN segment on "wokeness," and Carville's Kahuna May 2021 #269

He is not a professional POLITICAL communicator. He identifies as a comic. nt Kahuna May 2021 #266

Right, but that's still communication, and comics often use politics in their work. WhiskeyGrinder May 2021 #267

So. I use computers in my work. That doesn't make me a programmer. nt Kahuna May 2021 #268

I mean...the guy's been talking about politics for quite some time. WhiskeyGrinder May 2021 #272

I wonder, how can our side watch every single thing we say Laura PourMeADrink May 2021 #37

Never heard of him and as stated above, "Defund the Police" was a gift to Republicans. SMC22307 May 2021 #42

What's so tough about saying "Re-allocate law enforcement funding" instead? Paladin May 2021 #44

In case you didn't notice, even saying that Cuthbert Allgood May 2021 #280

I'm going to be honest, so forgive me. Oneironaut May 2021 #46

All the reasons Democrats say they did poorly down ballot LetMyPeopleVote May 2021 #56

It started in street protests... tonedevil May 2021 #71

That's the problem, though, imo. Oneironaut May 2021 #81

PR firms... tonedevil May 2021 #89

"Reform the police" doesn't say any more "Defund the Police" StarfishSaver May 2021 #91

I don't agree Oneironaut May 2021 #131

Once "reform the police" is explained and people believe it's more than a bs.slogan StarfishSaver May 2021 #132

We don't agree on what DTP means. It literally means no money for police. brush May 2021 #140

I don't think "defund" necessarily means to completely eliminate funding StarfishSaver May 2021 #144

Defund the police doesn't mean take funding away from police? brush May 2021 #149

"Taking funds away" is not the same as reducing or diverting the funding StarfishSaver May 2021 #151

Sentient, thinking people get nuance. I know all that, as do you, but you know... brush May 2021 #153

It's not up to Black and Brown people to dummy everything down for ignorant white people with StarfishSaver May 2021 #154

I hope what you say in your last graph happens because the elections are so close... brush May 2021 #156

That's what people always say when trying to justify telling Black and Brown people we have to StarfishSaver May 2021 #157

Allies knowing how to help is a good thing. It's tangential to the DTP. brush May 2021 #158

Too many allies spend too much time and effort telling Black and Brown people what we're doing StarfishSaver May 2021 #159

I'll ask this again what district are you in and how did dtp resonate there? caber09 May 2021 #170

There is an old saying in politics.... Happy Hoosier May 2021 #271

Ok. StarfishSaver May 2021 #273

Why 'Defund The Police' Attacks Were So Potent Against Democrats LetMyPeopleVote May 2021 #51

I don't see how this even matters... Humanist_Activist May 2021 #186

This ads worked because the GOP could point to prominent members of the Squad LetMyPeopleVote May 2021 #187

Most of the gains we made in 2018 were due to historic increase in voter participation... Humanist_Activist May 2021 #189

THANK YOU !!! If it wasn't dtp it would've been Biden hates beef or Socialism or any other ... uponit7771 May 2021 #206

I think the issues are that both parties are somewhat of a mess right now.... Humanist_Activist May 2021 #213

Bell is a total moron. BannonsLiver May 2021 #73

I wonder when was the last time anyone on DU quoted anything Kamau Bell had to say StarfishSaver May 2021 #77

I do not know who Kamu Bell is and I am not interested enough to try to find out LetMyPeopleVote May 2021 #79

Such refreshing incuriosity. /nt tonedevil May 2021 #84

I am more worried about the Texas legis efforts to suppress the vote LetMyPeopleVote May 2021 #92

Non sequitur... tonedevil May 2021 #94

Hunh? StarfishSaver May 2021 #110

I posted it because I couldn't believe another woke (uh-oh, another wording turned into a hot-) brush May 2021 #141

Maybe because, as you well know, Black people don't all think alike StarfishSaver May 2021 #142

Oh, no? Not you... brush May 2021 #178

I don't think it's a good slogan StarfishSaver May 2021 #183

+1 bigtree May 2021 #192

Just about everything you write is true, except it not being a vote loser. brush May 2021 #229

There are lots of reasons we nearly lost the Blue Wave advantage in the House, etc. StarfishSaver May 2021 #234

Let's just agee to disagree. brush May 2021 #235

"Blaming it on "Defund the Police" is a lazy excuse." THANK YOU !!! Warnock and Osoff won with uponit7771 May 2021 #241

BINGO !!! Few people are defending the slogan but to say it killed us down ballot is an excuse .. uponit7771 May 2021 #236

Well, Pres Obama thinks "defund the police" is a Bad Slogan.. & Cha May 2021 #174

There's a difference between a phrase that no campaign adopted being a "bad slogan" StarfishSaver May 2021 #195

Oh, & Sen Warnock is Against "defunding the police".. Cha May 2021 #176

exactly bigtree May 2021 #191

Thank you. StarfishSaver May 2021 #193

worse bigtree May 2021 #194

It's ridiculous, isn't it? StarfishSaver May 2021 #196

republicanism is a discredited ideology bigtree May 2021 #197

And it's a strategy many Democrats are all too happy to play into StarfishSaver May 2021 #202

+1, I think the bigger issue is the "demanding less" on the issue of policing is done so the ingroup uponit7771 May 2021 #240

If We Don't KEEP the House & Senate We Cha May 2021 #121

He already did ffs 🙄 Arazi May 2021 #147

Sen Warnock does "NOT Want to Defund the Police" Cha May 2021 #175

Neither did 99.9% of all dem candidates but somehow that slogan was blamed for their losses ... uponit7771 May 2021 #182

Again, your lack of experience in working on campaigns in the real world is sad LetMyPeopleVote May 2021 #188

WHOA !!! From your second link ... now lets talk. uponit7771 May 2021 #200

LOL thank you for confirming yet again that you do not understand how campaigns work LetMyPeopleVote May 2021 #212

Done, wont answer simplest question & your condescension is childish. Please post to someone else uponit7771 May 2021 #227

LOL I answered your silly question but evidently I was not clear LetMyPeopleVote May 2021 #242

More derision, you must have had a lot tied up in the dtp losing down ballot races analysis cause uponit7771 May 2021 #245

Read the poll or have someone read it and explain it to you LetMyPeopleVote May 2021 #253

Did you read the article? You are misquoting this article is a very deceptive manner LetMyPeopleVote May 2021 #263

Oh.. "sharp rebuke".! Pres Obama is a Winner Cha May 2021 #220

Senator Warnoch does NOT Believe in "defunding Cha May 2021 #219

... and neither did the other down ballot dems that lost. My point is weak messaging and unclear uponit7771 May 2021 #231

However did Warnock and Ossoff win their Senate races with Defund The Police around their neck?! Arazi May 2021 #135

Thank you StarfishSaver May 2021 #145

Yup. This outrage that black people aren't protesting "right" is an insult Arazi May 2021 #148

They're "throwing down the gauntlet" because they don't want to actually address the real problem StarfishSaver May 2021 #150

omg THANK YOU !! Also, when I ask people about EMPIRICAL evidence that it cost us down ballot ... uponit7771 May 2021 #181

We can be smarter than to give the GOP such a gift to use against our candidates. brush May 2021 #251

your words have consequences, too bigtree May 2021 #190

In some quarters, only white people are allowed to criticize words StarfishSaver May 2021 #198

I daresay, this in a time when those black voices and votes have been paramount bigtree May 2021 #199

Black and Brown voters break our necks to vote StarfishSaver May 2021 #203

agree completely, SS bigtree May 2021 #211

I gave context. He had a video on with a chart showing how "reallocating" police finds... brush May 2021 #248

so you agree with his policy bigtree May 2021 #256

Who on DU doesn't agree with reallocating funds to stop killer cops? brush May 2021 #258

the 'gift' in this case is the bevy of Democrats who can't stop scolding people who say 'defund' bigtree May 2021 #260

How silly, as if Democrats paid for the myraid of negative ads republicans used to win... brush May 2021 #262

people who vote based on opposition that slogan are idiots bigtree May 2021 #264

Sorry you don't like the phrase, but it needs to happen. dilby May 2021 #243

And the pushback ALWAYS is against the voices and messaging of the oppressed StarfishSaver May 2021 #246

I'm as against killer cops as anyone but we have to be smarter than to give the GOP... brush May 2021 #247

Sen Warnock is Against "Defunding the Police".. Cha May 2021 #250

Thanks for the reminder that Kamau Bell's new season begins tonight! (10:00 P.M., 9:00 Central) bullwinkle428 May 2021 #259

This entire debate is beyond stupid EffieBlack May 2021 #270

Agreed it's a dumb slogan. I still think it's not smart for prominent progressives... brush May 2021 #274

Nothing Kamau Bell says on television is "a huge loser." StarfishSaver May 2021 #275

This is a Democratic discussion board, even less likely to be viewed by undecideds... brush May 2021 #279

Bell has a right to free speech ChrisF1961 May 2021 #278

Ok, ok. How many times are you going to post the same thing? brush May 2021 #281

As many times as it takes ChrisF1961 May 2021 #282

Does it seem like it's working to you? brush May 2021 #284

Defending people's right to free speech ChrisF1961 May 2021 #286

Well said ChrisF1961 May 2021 #277

For fuck's sake, we could call it "buy more mac and cheese" and the frickin' Republicans Cuthbert Allgood May 2021 #283

Thank you StarfishSaver May 2021 #285

How about tying "insurrectionist party" 24-7 around the necks of all GOP candidates... brush May 2021 #287

I can tell you why my rep lost her seat Bettie May 2021 #288