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lalalu

(1,663 posts)

141. Mountain Meadows

Tue Oct 23, 2012, 02:12 PM

Oct 2012

is a perfect example of how violent they can be to protect their religion. Mormons kept Utah all white and all Mormon by slaughtering any non Mormons who came too close their territory. Mountain Meadows was a rare example where they had survivors and proof of what happened.

There was a push to bring them to justice for so many slaughters but it was stopped for two reasons. Mormons agreed not to enter the battle over slavery and then the civil war came. After the Civil War they were not prosecuted because they helped territories that wanted to remain all white and not allow freed slaves. They also joined in the fight to keep Oklahoma from becoming a state for freed slaves and Native Americans to own property.

There is a really ugly history of violence and racism behind Mormons and their quest to keep the west white and Utah a home for Mormons only. They still adhere to those beliefs.

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Mormonism is NO different than any other religion or club [View all] Taverner Oct 2012 OP

If it pleases you to think so then think so cthulu2016 Oct 2012 #1

I've studied it extensively Taverner Oct 2012 #4

You are missing that weird is subjective cthulu2016 Oct 2012 #34

I am trying really hard not to alienate the believers here... Taverner Oct 2012 #39

The Amish are outsiders intentionally, too. geardaddy Oct 2012 #101

yup lots of groups intentionally live outside of so called normal society loli phabay Oct 2012 #105

That's their choice and fine with me. lalalu Oct 2012 #124

And I am not eager to have an Amish president. Bigoted me. cthulu2016 Oct 2012 #106

Maybe I'm going out on a limb by saying that there's no way any Amish would ever run nt riderinthestorm Oct 2012 #109

I wouldn't either. I'm just pointing out that they live outside the mainstream geardaddy Oct 2012 #129

In any case, I'd guess it's a political loser to go after Romney's religion struggle4progress Oct 2012 #2

It's a cheap shot - like doing standup consisting of nothing but dick jokes Taverner Oct 2012 #10

I don't think mainstream Christians seek a Theocracy, though sure, what religion wouldn't want to be WinkyDink Oct 2012 #51

Excellent post obamanut2012 Oct 2012 #73

Yeah? Go on the internet tubes and google" Mormon White Horse Prophesy." jerseyjack Oct 2012 #57

Look up the Jewish Messiah, or the Second Coming of Christ, or the Madhi... Taverner Oct 2012 #58

Except this is an actual battle plan obamanut2012 Oct 2012 #79

Thank You lalalu Oct 2012 #127

Ins't that what got us into trouble with Bush? lalalu Oct 2012 #128

The difference is that their religion has racism built into it. lalalu Oct 2012 #3

Lots of religions have racism built in Taverner Oct 2012 #5

Harry Reid has explicitly endorsed the separation of church and state. So has Biden (like JFK) riderinthestorm Oct 2012 #15

That's a Republican thing. Not necesarrily a Mormon one. Taverner Oct 2012 #16

If you're going to use Harry Reid as the Mormon standard then its an important point riderinthestorm Oct 2012 #37

Then we have a problem with Romney because he is against the SOCAS Taverner Oct 2012 #46

Sure but that's informed by his RELIGION and its dogma that a Mormon US president riderinthestorm Oct 2012 #63

And other religions don't inform the same dogma to their parishioners? Taverner Oct 2012 #66

Do you know of any other mainstream religions with a White Horse Prophecy these days? riderinthestorm Oct 2012 #82

id say the hidden iman comes close but thats turning the whole of mankind loli phabay Oct 2012 #90

Yes, I have always felt he lalalu Oct 2012 #56

Sadly, you're probably right... Taverner Oct 2012 #59

And most (if not all) of them have sexism built in. (n/t) chimpymustgo Oct 2012 #6

Yep. Even Buddhism and Bahai. Taverner Oct 2012 #11

Very true lalalu Oct 2012 #159

You know, Slavery, yes SLAVERY was justified using Deuteronomy nadinbrzezinski Oct 2012 #8

Yes, and as I stated they have had internal fights over these issues. lalalu Oct 2012 #61

Include the LSD in that internal fight nadinbrzezinski Oct 2012 #71

If you think saying black people cannot enter heaven lalalu Oct 2012 #92

At this point this is not about them nadinbrzezinski Oct 2012 #98

This about Mormons and your attempt to lalalu Oct 2012 #121

But it is not JUST MORMONS nadinbrzezinski Oct 2012 #126

Every groups has elements of racism. lalalu Oct 2012 #131

Based on my views nadinbrzezinski Oct 2012 #136

"do you want the US Government to go back to it's policy of open religious persecution" lalalu Oct 2012 #150

And sexism. Even in the Mormon afterlife, women are second class citizens riderinthestorm Oct 2012 #9

I don't think Islam lets women into heaven Taverner Oct 2012 #14

They do. nt riderinthestorm Oct 2012 #25

thx for the correction Taverner Oct 2012 #41

yeah but the hadith talk explicitly about what those women are for loli phabay Oct 2012 #50

The credibility of hadith is an enormous, hot and difficult topic riderinthestorm Oct 2012 #72

and yet the imans use the hadith as do many muslims loli phabay Oct 2012 #87

yeah but in the fundie muslim heaven they have to service the martyr with 71 other women loli phabay Oct 2012 #24

No. They don't. nt riderinthestorm Oct 2012 #27

well you better go tell the fundies that they dont believe it. loli phabay Oct 2012 #31

True lalalu Oct 2012 #75

The Democratic Party also has a very racist past. Nye Bevan Oct 2012 #13

Romney believes in the golden tablets. Obama believes that Jesus Christ turned water into wine. Nye Bevan Oct 2012 #7

Yup pointed this out the other day nadinbrzezinski Oct 2012 #12

I suggest you go live in eastern idaho for a few years. aletier_v Oct 2012 #18

Of what, that we have extreme religions? nadinbrzezinski Oct 2012 #30

On reflection I see what you are saying lalalu Oct 2012 #160

Eastern Idaho is no different that parts of Rural Missisippi Taverner Oct 2012 #32

Idaho and Utah lalalu Oct 2012 #120

It is considerably different. JFK wasn't a Bishop; he wasn't "fulfiliing" a prophecy for a Theocracy WinkyDink Oct 2012 #23

And your point? nadinbrzezinski Oct 2012 #33

Oh, "Jaysus" to you, too. WinkyDink Oct 2012 #60

Whatever, you go on create the other nadinbrzezinski Oct 2012 #77

I'll go with what I'm hearing from former LDS members Occulus Oct 2012 #135

And I will vote against Romney based on HIS POLICIES nadinbrzezinski Oct 2012 #137

An LDS bishop isn't even remotely similar to an RCC bishop slackmaster Oct 2012 #52

NOT THE POINT. The POINT is that Romney IS in his Church hierarchy. WinkyDink Oct 2012 #65

EVERY MORMON is in their church hierarchy Taverner Oct 2012 #68

And did he think of himself as the Queen Bee? WinkyDink Oct 2012 #74

Good One lalalu Oct 2012 #134

Absolutely not true obamanut2012 Oct 2012 #91

Not any more. Romney's term as a bishop expired many years ago, before he became a politician. slackmaster Oct 2012 #81

He was a Stake President which is a similar role to an RCC Bishop CreekDog Oct 2012 #80

The operative verb here being "was" slackmaster Oct 2012 #85

It is an almost all-powrful leadership position obamanut2012 Oct 2012 #89

Exactly lalalu Oct 2012 #117

You need to brush up on history. lalalu Oct 2012 #116

Why is Catholicism always the default comparison? Anglicanism began over a divorce, FGS. WinkyDink Oct 2012 #17

It's that whole numbers thing Taverner Oct 2012 #21

Scientologists always use the RC as the default, too obamanut2012 Oct 2012 #84

Of course. But we're talking about politics. Marr Oct 2012 #19

Animal gods are "no weirder"? WinkyDink Oct 2012 #26

Than a magical zombie carpenter born from a coupling of god and teenage girl? Marr Oct 2012 #29

It's all strange Taverner Oct 2012 #35

Sure, and they were all equally irrational. Marr Oct 2012 #45

Yep Taverner Oct 2012 #48

Yes, actually (BTW, Christ wasn't a carpenter; Joseph was.) WinkyDink Oct 2012 #69

Thank you for saying this obamanut2012 Oct 2012 #94

The Bible describes him as a carpenter or stonemason. Marr Oct 2012 #115

Because *CARPENTER* was the preposterous part? Marr Oct 2012 #99

Which is why I sent a link to the vid to several people Politicub Oct 2012 #20

That I understand Taverner Oct 2012 #28

I have plenty of reasons to detest Mitt Romney Aerows Oct 2012 #22

You are completely off-base re: Mitt's Mormonism. He believes; he is a Bishop; he speaks of his WinkyDink Oct 2012 #36

I have a very hard time with Mitt's credibility Aerows Oct 2012 #44

He walks the walk. Believe what you will. WinkyDink Oct 2012 #55

And you could well be right Aerows Oct 2012 #64

ALL Religions are screwy IMHO sellitman Oct 2012 #38

Now this is a post I can agree with. lalalu Oct 2012 #132

sounds like the catholic church to me loli phabay Oct 2012 #139

Catholic Chuch and every religion I know of. lalalu Oct 2012 #143

mayby its like a cellphone plan and theres no roaming loli phabay Oct 2012 #153

That's funny lalalu Oct 2012 #157

It is not the beliefs, it is what they do about their beliefs Angry Dragon Oct 2012 #40

This is true... Taverner Oct 2012 #42

He's also demonstrably lived out his faith's tenets that women are not equal to men riderinthestorm Oct 2012 #49

I think all religions are nuts!!! Taverner Oct 2012 #54

You couldn't torture me into telling you what we do at the Possum Lodge slackmaster Oct 2012 #43

gotta ask wtf is a possum lodge ive seen beaver lodges in the woods but never a possum one loli phabay Oct 2012 #118

You are correct, but you are also totally missing the point.... Moonwalk Oct 2012 #47

But where do you draw the line? Taverner Oct 2012 #62

The Difference Is Age, Sir The Magistrate Oct 2012 #53

Mormonism has elements of the Abrahamaic religions nadinbrzezinski Oct 2012 #67

Sure, Ma'am, But It is Obviously a Magpie's Collection Of Baubles And Shine The Magistrate Oct 2012 #76

Becuase you are not part of it nadinbrzezinski Oct 2012 #93

When the Lying Grifter Kicked It Off, Ma'am, No One Was Part Of It The Magistrate Oct 2012 #103

But we are not talking of over 100 years ago nadinbrzezinski Oct 2012 #119

Josiah Is A Good Deal More Recent Than That, Ma'am The Magistrate Oct 2012 #123

He was still the one who commisioned it nadinbrzezinski Oct 2012 #130

Raised By The Priests, Ma'am, So they Say The Magistrate Oct 2012 #133

So... every religion has a starting point nadinbrzezinski Oct 2012 #138

And How Far back that is, Ma'am, Matters To How they Are Perceived The Magistrate Oct 2012 #148

jesus was a grifter too, you should read more snooper2 Oct 2012 #140

Well let's be accurate nadinbrzezinski Oct 2012 #145

That is An Arguable Point, Sir The Magistrate Oct 2012 #146

Let's put it another way, they all pray, they all have churches/temples/synagogues snooper2 Oct 2012 #149

True Enough, Sir, and Not under Dispute Here The Magistrate Oct 2012 #151

It is actually simple nadinbrzezinski Oct 2012 #158

you shouldn't criticize someone for telling the truth about a religion CreekDog Oct 2012 #88

This -- telling the truth is not a slander obamanut2012 Oct 2012 #97

Oh Nadin's not accusing DUers of slander. Its accusations of Nazis in their quest to demonize Jews riderinthestorm Oct 2012 #104

Talk about the history all you want nadinbrzezinski Oct 2012 #107

All religions dream to have political power Taverner Oct 2012 #112

Religion has it's evolutionary (as social construct) uses nadinbrzezinski Oct 2012 #122

Then you know Mormon's also did their fair share of persecuting from the Mountain Meadow massacre riderinthestorm Oct 2012 #114

No, Magistrate made observations about Mormonism and you put words into his mouth CreekDog Oct 2012 #142

Whatever nadinbrzezinski Oct 2012 #144

No. But why didn't you ask me when I stopped beating my wife? CreekDog Oct 2012 #147

Mormons have to take only one guy's word for it (Joseph Smith). Nye Bevan Oct 2012 #102

Not true -- LDS and Scientology have their own special corner obamanut2012 Oct 2012 #70

That's "suppressive person" and I am proud to be an SP2 slackmaster Oct 2012 #78

Lots of similarities between teh two obamanut2012 Oct 2012 #95

Religion is all about reassuring people that after death, they can go on with their lives Taverner Oct 2012 #110

It's a cult... S_E_Fudd Oct 2012 #83

Christianity itself is a cult. It was one of many that existed at the time of Jesus. slackmaster Oct 2012 #86

It won by going Borg Mambo #5 Taverner Oct 2012 #108

No it isn't obamanut2012 Oct 2012 #111

I struggle with this issue. I agree that it would be difficult to explain Catholicism, or any Texas Lawyer Oct 2012 #96

"Man is the only animal to have discovered the One True God.....several of them." Mark Twain Tierra_y_Libertad Oct 2012 #100

Unique to the LDS Church is the oath of vengeance KamaAina Oct 2012 #113

Mountain Meadows lalalu Oct 2012 #141

My favorite religions are Dervishes, the people who say shit like "falafel" and pretend they're... porphyrian Oct 2012 #125

Okay...how many religions, cults, and clubs want to replace the US government with.... OldDem2012 Oct 2012 #152

kind of like asking how many groups other than furries want a furrie president loli phabay Oct 2012 #155

You are right. Hamlette Oct 2012 #154

Not buying. That club deliberately took away the rights of my lovely, innocent friends Zorra Oct 2012 #156

Locking REP Oct 2012 #161