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In reply to the discussion: I was so wrong in assuming that Russian soldiers hold the same values as we soldiers have in west [View all]Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)63. I don't seem to remember reading about mass rape of German women by western Allies in 1945
In the Soviet zone of occupation, though? Well, here's what Alexander Solzhenitsyn has to say about that:
All of us knew very well that if girls were German, they could be raped and then shot. This was almost a combat distinction.
Alexander Solzhenitsyn, Russian novelist
Alexander Solzhenitsyn, Russian novelist
Also:
Red Army soldiers don't believe in 'individual liaisons' with German women," wrote the playwright Zakhar Agranenko in his diary when serving as an officer of marine infantry in East Prussia. "Nine, ten, twelve men at a time - they rape them on a collective basis."
The Soviet armies advancing into East Prussia in January 1945, in huge, long columns, were an extraordinary mixture of modern and medieval: tank troops in padded black helmets, Cossack cavalrymen on shaggy mounts with loot strapped to the saddle, lend-lease Studebakers and Dodges towing light field guns, and then a second echelon in horse-drawn carts. The variety of character among the soldiers was almost as great as that of their military equipment. There were freebooters who drank and raped quite shamelessly, and there were idealistic, austere communists and members of the intelligentsia appalled by such behaviour.
Beria and Stalin, back in Moscow, knew perfectly well what was going on from a number of detailed reports. One stated that "many Germans declare that all German women in East Prussia who stayed behind were raped by Red Army soldiers". Numerous examples of gang rape were given - "girls under 18 and old women included".
Marshal Rokossovsky issued order No 006 in an attempt to direct "the feelings of hatred at fighting the enemy on the battlefield." It appears to have had little effect. There were also a few arbitrary attempts to exert authority. The commander of one rifle division is said to have "personally shot a lieutenant who was lining up a group of his men before a German woman spreadeagled on the ground". But either officers were involved themselves, or the lack of discipline made it too dangerous to restore order over drunken soldiers armed with submachine guns.
Calls to avenge the Motherland, violated by the Wehrmacht's invasion, had given the idea that almost any cruelty would be allowed. Even many young women soldiers and medical staff in the Red Army did not appear to disapprove. "Our soldiers' behaviour towards Germans, particularly German women, is absolutely correct!" said a 21-year-old from Agranenko's reconnaissance detachment. A number seemed to find it amusing. Several German women recorded how Soviet servicewomen watched and laughed when they were raped. But some women were deeply shaken by what they witnessed in Germany. Natalya Gesse, a close friend of the scientist Andrei Sakharov, had observed the Red Army in action in 1945 as a Soviet war correspondent. "The Russian soldiers were raping every German female from eight to eighty," she recounted later. "It was an army of rapists."
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2002/may/01/news.features11
Spare us the false equivalence and bothsideserism, pls.
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I was so wrong in assuming that Russian soldiers hold the same values as we soldiers have in west [View all]
Duncanpup
Apr 2022
OP
Thank you. ANYONE thinking that American soldiers didn't do this while in Iraq are
Ferrets are Cool
Apr 2022
#23
I don't seem to remember reading about mass rape of German women by western Allies in 1945
Spider Jerusalem
Apr 2022
#63
Doesn't even the Buy Bull say the virgins should be raped? When you conquer the enemy?
alphafemale
Apr 2022
#13
Once the killing starts, especially up close, the thin veneer of civilization is ripped away...
ashredux
Apr 2022
#15
Not suprisingly, I think some (probably mostly the young conscripts) do; the mercenaries certainly
hlthe2b
Apr 2022
#22
And add in that in order to get people to kill each other, it helps to dehumanize the other,
Rabrrrrrr
Apr 2022
#37
It is truly disgusting and horrific. Thank you for your service and thoughts on this.
Evolve Dammit
Apr 2022
#30
Evolved since WWII? Our troops were raping in Iraq, Afghanistan, and even around bases in Okinawa
Rabrrrrrr
Apr 2022
#36
Agreed, but the de-humanization of the enemy or any group of people often leads to widespread
TeamProg
Apr 2022
#53
This is a universal human thing. This is what happens when order breaks down.
Oneironaut
Apr 2022
#45
Some of us homo sapiens sapiens have homo sapiens neanderthalensis DNA in our cells.
TeamProg
Apr 2022
#52
Yup. And we have numerous examples of crimes committed against civilians by our own troops.
BlackSkimmer
Apr 2022
#59