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Spider Jerusalem

(21,786 posts)
63. I don't seem to remember reading about mass rape of German women by western Allies in 1945
Sun Apr 3, 2022, 12:47 PM
Apr 2022

In the Soviet zone of occupation, though? Well, here's what Alexander Solzhenitsyn has to say about that:

“All of us knew very well that if girls were German, they could be raped and then shot. This was almost a combat distinction.”

— Alexander Solzhenitsyn, Russian novelist


Also:

Red Army soldiers don't believe in 'individual liaisons' with German women," wrote the playwright Zakhar Agranenko in his diary when serving as an officer of marine infantry in East Prussia. "Nine, ten, twelve men at a time - they rape them on a collective basis."

The Soviet armies advancing into East Prussia in January 1945, in huge, long columns, were an extraordinary mixture of modern and medieval: tank troops in padded black helmets, Cossack cavalrymen on shaggy mounts with loot strapped to the saddle, lend-lease Studebakers and Dodges towing light field guns, and then a second echelon in horse-drawn carts. The variety of character among the soldiers was almost as great as that of their military equipment. There were freebooters who drank and raped quite shamelessly, and there were idealistic, austere communists and members of the intelligentsia appalled by such behaviour.

Beria and Stalin, back in Moscow, knew perfectly well what was going on from a number of detailed reports. One stated that "many Germans declare that all German women in East Prussia who stayed behind were raped by Red Army soldiers". Numerous examples of gang rape were given - "girls under 18 and old women included".

Marshal Rokossovsky issued order No 006 in an attempt to direct "the feelings of hatred at fighting the enemy on the battlefield." It appears to have had little effect. There were also a few arbitrary attempts to exert authority. The commander of one rifle division is said to have "personally shot a lieutenant who was lining up a group of his men before a German woman spreadeagled on the ground". But either officers were involved themselves, or the lack of discipline made it too dangerous to restore order over drunken soldiers armed with submachine guns.

Calls to avenge the Motherland, violated by the Wehrmacht's invasion, had given the idea that almost any cruelty would be allowed. Even many young women soldiers and medical staff in the Red Army did not appear to disapprove. "Our soldiers' behaviour towards Germans, particularly German women, is absolutely correct!" said a 21-year-old from Agranenko's reconnaissance detachment. A number seemed to find it amusing. Several German women recorded how Soviet servicewomen watched and laughed when they were raped. But some women were deeply shaken by what they witnessed in Germany. Natalya Gesse, a close friend of the scientist Andrei Sakharov, had observed the Red Army in action in 1945 as a Soviet war correspondent. "The Russian soldiers were raping every German female from eight to eighty," she recounted later. "It was an army of rapists."

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2002/may/01/news.features11


Spare us the false equivalence and bothsideserism, pls.

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I am saddened as well, but not at all surprised Sherman A1 Apr 2022 #1
+1 2naSalit Apr 2022 #3
War is Rape, looting, and destruction. Always was, always will be Walleye Apr 2022 #2
Human beings do those things. smirkymonkey Apr 2022 #68
Like those at My Lai? BSdetect Apr 2022 #4
True Duncanpup Apr 2022 #5
Like Abu Ghraib? Somebody being awfully naive. Solomon Apr 2022 #11
Thank you. ANYONE thinking that American soldiers didn't do this while in Iraq are Ferrets are Cool Apr 2022 #23
Death toll in Iraq was like 30-40k. Mosby Apr 2022 #32
... Ferrets are Cool Apr 2022 #33
The Lancet said 1 million. Igel Apr 2022 #61
Our soldiers have done horrible things also JI7 Apr 2022 #6
Agreed Duncanpup Apr 2022 #7
Not as SOP though. This is a planned systematic attack on civilians. oldsoftie Apr 2022 #27
it would be if the previous administration had its way anarch Apr 2022 #49
military ops were underway while trump was in office. And we didn't do this. oldsoftie Apr 2022 #55
bothsideism kiri Apr 2022 #41
It's a question of extent and frequency. Igel Apr 2022 #62
The OP is about comparing us with them. JI7 Apr 2022 #72
OK Whataboutism? kiri Apr 2022 #73
It doesn't help to claim something which is obviously not true JI7 Apr 2022 #74
I don't seem to remember reading about mass rape of German women by western Allies in 1945 Spider Jerusalem Apr 2022 #63
It may be the mercenaries Comrade Putin hired. pwb Apr 2022 #8
They never learned - it's been practice for centuries by their soldiers Pachamama Apr 2022 #9
Rapes in Yugoslavia too... suncat Apr 2022 #18
Rape as a weapon in war Pachamama Apr 2022 #26
Values have little to do with it; all militaries are brutal things. WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2022 #10
You may want to read The Pentagon Papers and The New Legions BSdetect Apr 2022 #12
Doesn't even the Buy Bull say the virgins should be raped? When you conquer the enemy? alphafemale Apr 2022 #13
Old Testament. oldsoftie Apr 2022 #29
And....? alphafemale Apr 2022 #34
Hmnn 3auld6phart Apr 2022 #42
And... Mariana Apr 2022 #54
Deuteronomy 20:10-14 Danascot Apr 2022 #47
Do Jews and Chriatians follow that do you think? Mosby Apr 2022 #50
It is instructions. alphafemale Apr 2022 #56
2500 year old instructions. Mosby Apr 2022 #64
Rape has always been used as a weapon in war Farmer-Rick Apr 2022 #14
Once the killing starts, especially up close, the thin veneer of civilization is ripped away... ashredux Apr 2022 #15
It was what the women of 1945 Germany feared, and rightfully so. Ilsa Apr 2022 #16
The mother of one of my wife's friends was one of them DFW Apr 2022 #25
Oh yes, plus the starvation of millions of Russians. nt Ilsa Apr 2022 #46
Stalin was more expert at that than Hitler ever was DFW Apr 2022 #48
But how can that be? All militaries are exactly the same Crunchy Frog Apr 2022 #60
I'm afraid it happens in every army COL Mustard Apr 2022 #17
The power of the MSM. SmallFry Apr 2022 #19
The russian military is a corrupt gang of thugs. The Jungle 1 Apr 2022 #20
My opinion of how evil the Russians are sky_masterson Apr 2022 #21
Not suprisingly, I think some (probably mostly the young conscripts) do; the mercenaries certainly hlthe2b Apr 2022 #22
Mostly, people are people, here or over there. 70sEraVet Apr 2022 #24
Yes, like Trump pardoning war criminals. JI7 Apr 2022 #75
Look at the sexual assaults within our own military tikka Apr 2022 #28
Then, add to that Chainfire Apr 2022 #35
And add in that in order to get people to kill each other, it helps to dehumanize the other, Rabrrrrrr Apr 2022 #37
You are exactly right. Chainfire Apr 2022 #40
It is truly disgusting and horrific. Thank you for your service and thoughts on this. Evolve Dammit Apr 2022 #30
Not all, but part of it is a conscript versus volunteer army. roamer65 Apr 2022 #31
Evolved since WWII? Our troops were raping in Iraq, Afghanistan, and even around bases in Okinawa Rabrrrrrr Apr 2022 #36
This. BlackSkimmer Apr 2022 #70
'A fish rots from the head down'? multigraincracker Apr 2022 #38
Of course, then there were the wars against indigenous "North Americans." HUAJIAO Apr 2022 #39
War is brutal and it brutalizes those who participate...nt Wounded Bear Apr 2022 #43
Soldiers are individual people. You can't lump them all together. MineralMan Apr 2022 #44
Agreed, but the de-humanization of the enemy or any group of people often leads to widespread TeamProg Apr 2022 #53
This is a universal human thing. This is what happens when order breaks down. Oneironaut Apr 2022 #45
I don't need graphic warnings anymore for Russian troop deaths Arazi Apr 2022 #51
+1000 smirkymonkey Apr 2022 #69
Some of us homo sapiens sapiens have homo sapiens neanderthalensis DNA in our cells. TeamProg Apr 2022 #52
Can't say for certain, but this sounds like the work of the Wagner Group. patphil Apr 2022 #57
Umm, our troops sexually assault/rape their own. A lot. demmiblue Apr 2022 #58
Yup. And we have numerous examples of crimes committed against civilians by our own troops. BlackSkimmer Apr 2022 #59
I remember a text from "Bury by Heart at Wounded Knee" alphafemale Apr 2022 #65
There's a lot of horror in that book. BlackSkimmer Apr 2022 #71
Former US Marine accused of rape in Ukraine bullwinkle428 Apr 2022 #66
Blackwater, is that you?? Samrob Apr 2022 #67
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