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Pluvious

(5,277 posts)
Wed Sep 14, 2022, 10:04 AM Sep 2022

What Happens to Russia After It Loses? [View all]

A bit long, but well written piece; here are the concluding paragraphs…

As Tom Nichols, a former Naval War College professor, Russia specialist, and current contributor to The Atlantic, concludes: “No matter how this war ends, post-Soviet Russia as a great power is finished for a long time to come. Putin unwound 30 years of social and economic development, somehow thinking he could sustain great power status on wars of aggression, selling natural resources, and keeping a nuclear arsenal. (Great powers do not have to go shopping for weapons in North Korea.) Even if Putin dies or is removed, the moral stain of the Ukraine war and its many crimes is going to last for generations, and a post-Putin Russia will not get the same benefit of the doubt from the rest of the world the way it did after the Soviet collapse. He's going to leave the country poorer, more hated, and more isolated than at any time since Stalin’s death.”

There is an irony in this. Putin avoided the funeral of Mikhail Gorbachev because he considered the fall of the Soviet Union and the dissolution of its empire as the worst catastrophe of the past century. Yet, here he is compounding the missteps and the crimes that led to that event.

Indeed, the best case for post-Soviet Russia may well be that it becomes relative to China what the former members of the Warsaw Pact were to it, a satellite of a much greater power, at best the junior partner in a relationship with the one like-minded nation that has a chance to gain greater influence in the decades ahead.

For countries like Ukraine—fighting for their continued existence—all of this is secondary, of course. What matters is that they are able to continue their recent victories, that the West provides them with the equipment and financial resources to be able to capitalize on those successes and that in the end they fulfill the promise of Zelensky’s speech and push the invader out of their country. Should they do that, they will be doing the world a great service. And fortunately, they are aided in this not only by the commitments of leaders like President Joe Biden and his counterparts in NATO and the EU, but by the mind-boggling ineptitude of Putin and his army.

As one Ukrainian soldier put it, “We are very lucky that they are so fucking stupid.”


https://t.co/g2kEtLbM4Q
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K&R!!! "As one Ukrainian soldier put it, "We are very lucky that they are so fucking stupid."" n/t RKP5637 Sep 2022 #1
We have the same Traildogbob Sep 2022 #10
Yes!!! It's so critical. I think the gates are closing for elimination of the slime if it's allowed RKP5637 Sep 2022 #12
I hope you are correct. Traildogbob Sep 2022 #15
I think in November we'll pretty much have an idea of where it's heading. RKP5637 Sep 2022 #16
My biggest concern Traildogbob Sep 2022 #20
Absolutely incredible, and that in many ways signs the end of the United States. The RKP5637 Sep 2022 #21
Cowboys won't win until the owner fires the GM. Marcuse Sep 2022 #25
100 percent Traildogbob Sep 2022 #29
Room for one more. Marcuse Sep 2022 #35
Cool Traildogbob Sep 2022 #50
I saw a recent picture of their leader this morning. Cracklin Charlie Sep 2022 #2
I completely missed this! Can u share a link please? Native Sep 2022 #30
I do not really know how, but let me see if I can find it. Cracklin Charlie Sep 2022 #51
In many ways IMO Putin and Trump are similar, a couple of con artists scamming their RKP5637 Sep 2022 #3
"We are very lucky that they are so fucking stupid." Pantagruel Sep 2022 #4
LOL, Yeah!!!!! most likely! Phew, if I were going/forced into a stupid war like that for Putin RKP5637 Sep 2022 #6
From my experience "training" with Russian servicemen in the 90's, MarineCombatEngineer Sep 2022 #44
I think Russia can trade its energy to China for political power, but then how can Russia prevent ShazamIam Sep 2022 #5
I think there will be a time in the not so distant future that we will treat china like we are yaesu Sep 2022 #27
Putin and the oligarchs siphoned off all the money.. ananda Sep 2022 #7
Not only left the military to languish- rubbersole Sep 2022 #9
Exactly. ananda Sep 2022 #24
If/when Ukraine wins there will be a wholesale housecleaning... brush Sep 2022 #8
As long as Putin is alive, he will be a threat to Russia and the world. Irish_Dem Sep 2022 #45
I was being charitable in saying he'll be lucky to get a dacha... brush Sep 2022 #46
Yes good. Irish_Dem Sep 2022 #47
And what does the fact that they are that stupid say lees1975 Sep 2022 #11
God Bless Ukraine. Fuck Putin. Hope the Russian people finally get someone decent to run the place. Joinfortmill Sep 2022 #13
not just stupid... getagrip_already Sep 2022 #14
I blame a lot of it on corruption. CaptainTruth Sep 2022 #17
Politely leaving out... Grins Sep 2022 #18
After Putin is gone, the missteps of Germany's WWI Reparations & Sanctions cannot be repeated. TheBlackAdder Sep 2022 #19
You are absolutely right. We can't force Russia into poverty and hopelessness. erronis Sep 2022 #31
The deep seated corruption going on for decades leaves much of the Russian ppl living in absolute PortTack Sep 2022 #33
They will end up being boxed in by new NATO countries. The_Casual_Observer Sep 2022 #22
I think Pootie will become ill and be hospitalized. edbermac Sep 2022 #23
China dvduval Sep 2022 #26
"Great powers do not have to go shopping for weapons in North Korea." This says it all. Native Sep 2022 #28
Europe will pretend everything is fine and start importing huge amounts of Russian gas again. hunter Sep 2022 #32
Not so sure about that. Denmark and 3 other countries are radically rethinking wind PortTack Sep 2022 #34
Wind turbines REQUIRE gas "backup" power to be economically viable. hunter Sep 2022 #40
... Celerity Sep 2022 #36
Without Putin the oligarchs will be unleashed. Will they cooperate or compete? Marcuse Sep 2022 #37
They are being murdered as we speak. Irish_Dem Sep 2022 #43
Annexed by China. moondust Sep 2022 #38
Yes Russia will be China's lower status side kick. Irish_Dem Sep 2022 #42
East of Urals will become Chinese occupied or aligned. roamer65 Sep 2022 #49
What happened to Trump when he lost? milestogo Sep 2022 #39
Hopefully Russia gets gerrymandered out of existence. LiberalFighter Sep 2022 #41
Putin will flee before being deposed and thrown out of a window Mysterian Sep 2022 #48
He's like the richest man in the world - we'll see if that helps heh nt. Pluvious Sep 2022 #52
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