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Igel

(37,613 posts)
37. Yeah.
Wed Nov 30, 2022, 11:33 PM
Nov 2022

Worth $200B at current valuations, but pay zero in income tax.

There's the rub.

My mother and father bought a house in 1996. A decade later it was worth a good $140k more. Then 2009. It reset to its 1996 value.

My mother wanted to know who stole her money. She had $300k in 2007, in late 2009 she had $160k. Somebody robbed her, clearly, and she called the police. They laughed. She called me. I tried to explain. Repeatedly. Over weeks.

In 2010 I realized the problem. My father killed himself in March of that year. I went as executor and my mother was a bit off. Calming her down when she came at me with a knife was the give-away. Checked medicine bottles, called doctor, said what happened, told the nice nurse that she came at me with a knife because I was evil and wanted to steal her house now that the bad man that was dead in the garage was dead (her husband of 50+ years), that she commuted from Arizona to Maryland every day for decades back in the '50s and '60s for her 8-hour shifts and that people were living in the AC vents, was 75 but born in and always had lived in the house built in 1996 and the nice doctor I was transferred to told me she had moderate-several fronto-temporal dementia and was delusional. And the doctor was very, very worried now that she was living alone, delusional.

So of course she didn't understand that an increase in valuation =/= taxable income.

Now, had my parents paid taxes on the $160 "earned income" from their house's appreciation, who'd have reimbursed them when the housing prices fell? The state and federal governments? Hell, my parents paid taxes on the "appraised value" for a few years when, you know, the state overbilled them on taxes because, in the end, the house wasn't worth $300k. That was a state-codified injustice.

Let's compound it by making it a federal injustice.

Federal and state law ignored the assets my mother and father had, as working class Boomers with a retirement fund, because they weren't taxed on "income" from unsold appeciated assets. A good thing. My mother and father both lost more than the average median income in 2009 from stock/bond problems. They never enjoyed the income until they sold the assets (upon which they were taxed). Nobody wants to argue that had they been taxed on appreciated value they should have been refunded that they should be reimbursed by state/fed government. (And, again, my mother was irate that somebody stole her money when her whatever-fund lost value--AIG went bust? Somebody stole the money. But, I explained, not AIG. AIG didn't sell her the stock, somebody else did--that person got her money, then it increased in value, then went bust. She earned no money from the increase, lost no money from the decrease. Just paper assets. Non-taxable, and justly, rightly, properly, so. Tax it? You're in junust, wrong, improper territory. Until it's money, it's not legal tender.)

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Yes, but Tesla shares are still down to about half of what they spooky3 Nov 2022 #1
That's nothing. WarGamer Nov 2022 #4
The peak this year was $402 per share. That's a precipitous drop. spooky3 Nov 2022 #11
This message was self-deleted by its author WarGamer Nov 2022 #12
It's not down 50% this year--nowhere close to that. spooky3 Nov 2022 #14
Look at individual tickers. WarGamer Nov 2022 #15
Look at the S&P 500, the Dow, or even NASDAQ. Nt spooky3 Nov 2022 #16
That's what I just wrote. WarGamer Nov 2022 #18
Come on, stop digging. Nt spooky3 Nov 2022 #20
AMZN, down nearly 50% from peak a year ago WarGamer Nov 2022 #21
If you're a "full time daily trader" then you should know.... A HERETIC I AM Nov 2022 #22
I said that to reinforce my point that I believe that accumulated (hoarded) wealth should be taxed. WarGamer Nov 2022 #23
Likewise, the OP should know that if Musk had dumped 135 million shares... OilemFirchen Nov 2022 #27
The market is not really down "a lot" over the past year. onenote Dec 2022 #57
what I wrote WarGamer Dec 2022 #58
What you wrote was that the "entire" market was down "a LOT" onenote Dec 2022 #59
As of the end of September 2022... the DOW was down 35k to 28k WarGamer Dec 2022 #60
But its edhopper Nov 2022 #17
Bears keep saying that... predicting it'll trade at $20/share like crappy old Ford and GM. WarGamer Nov 2022 #19
If it doesn't grow like a Tech Company edhopper Nov 2022 #24
The paprework doesn't lie... WarGamer Nov 2022 #25
That discounts edhopper Nov 2022 #29
I have an i3 as a toy... WarGamer Nov 2022 #33
Consumers Reports edhopper Nov 2022 #36
likely our next car Celerity Dec 2022 #40
drool... enjoy it in good health, Celerity!! WarGamer Dec 2022 #47
Eye spy with my little eye 48656c6c6f20 Dec 2022 #41
I liked him MORE before he showed his political stripes. WarGamer Dec 2022 #48
I can only imagine how sucky the service will be with 10M cars on the road pimpbot Nov 2022 #34
Yeah quite a few issues... WarGamer Nov 2022 #35
RAV4 Prime PHEV AWD orthoclad Dec 2022 #53
It's a govt subsidy company orthoclad Dec 2022 #54
What happens edhopper Nov 2022 #2
Bears been saying that for years... keep getting burned. WarGamer Nov 2022 #6
P/E ratio is about $61, but your point is well taken. Nt spooky3 Nov 2022 #13
President Biden doesn't agree. brooklynite Nov 2022 #3
I know... WarGamer Nov 2022 #5
US individual taxes are based on earnings, not holdings. This is fundamental and fitting. Shermann Nov 2022 #7
Thats' what the law says. WarGamer Nov 2022 #10
Many personal perks Zeitghost Nov 2022 #32
We need to fix this orthoclad Dec 2022 #55
I'm confused... BlueIdaho Nov 2022 #8
No, he took TWITTER private. brooklynite Nov 2022 #9
He's also lost a hundred billion Dorian Gray Nov 2022 #26
Like I said earlier... WarGamer Nov 2022 #28
Unless congress changes the tax laws, this isn't happening. jimfields33 Nov 2022 #31
Yeah. Igel Nov 2022 #37
"pays ANY taxes"? former9thward Dec 2022 #49
I addressed this earlier. That's because he exercised options. WarGamer Dec 2022 #50
And how many billions in unrealized losses does he have piled up in Twitter Zeitghost Nov 2022 #30
Tesla stock is now down about half from its high. . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Dec 2022 #44
I would suppose Zeitghost Dec 2022 #45
But what are you making? acerlily Dec 2022 #38
You're not this acerlily, are you? mahatmakanejeeves Dec 2022 #39
Good catch. Eliot Rosewater Dec 2022 #51
Profile Information mahatmakanejeeves Dec 2022 #52
So far his "dreams" seem to amount to making money, getting his Carlitos Brigante Dec 2022 #56
I Don't Disagree At All ProfessorGAC Dec 2022 #42
There are ways to do it Johnny2X2X Dec 2022 #43
And would you then Zeitghost Dec 2022 #46
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