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Ocelot II

(115,719 posts)
Tue Dec 6, 2022, 12:02 AM Dec 2022

On Grave-Dancing [View all]

Once again, a famous person who held distasteful political beliefs has passed away, and the grave-dancing has commenced. This time it was Kirstie Alley, an actress famous mostly for her long-standing role on Cheers. She was also an avowed conservative (although she withdrew her support for TFG in 2020 and announced she wouldn't vote for either candidate), and a Scientologist. Accordingly, some seem to think it's OK to celebrate her death because she's an "enemy."

Really?

My own criteria for acceptable grave-dancing (YMMV) upon the death of someone whose politics we deplore require considering the following factors:

1. Was the person currently causing a significant amount of social discord, suffering, or other trouble such that their demise will make a noticeable difference in people's lives? Or were they old adversaries who were no longer involved in any kind of public life; or people whose impact was merely annoying, but insignificant?

2. Did they have family, friends and/or associates who genuinely loved them, or were they so disagreeable or toxic that they won't be missed by anyone?

3. Did they ever do anything good or useful, irrespective of their politics; i.e., did they support good causes, donate generously to charities, or provide entertainment through their art, music, acting, etc.? Were they kind to children and animals? Or were they consistently greedy, uncharitable, mean, disinclined to help people or do anything to make their lives easier?

4. Did they contribute negatively or positively to public discourse; that is to say, did they express their opinions, however wrong-headed they might have seemed, courteously and rationally, or as insulting, hateful trolls?

Applying these criteria, I can't think of any reason to dance on Kirstie Alley's grave. She was just an actress with political opinions contrary to mine. I also didn't dance on the graves of John McCain, George H.W. and Barbara Bush, or Bob Dole. I didn't agree with them but I didn't hate them. In fact, the only graves I can anticipate dancing on, and might even do so with pleasure, would be Trump's and Putin's. They meet all of my negative criteria. As to other "enemies," I offer the wise words of Walt Whitman, from Leaves of Grass, written following the Civil War.

RECONCILIATION.

WORD over all, beautiful as the sky!
Beautiful that war, and all its deeds of carnage, must in
time be utterly lost;
That the hands of the sisters Death and Night, incessantly
softly wash again, and ever again, this soil'd world:
…For my enemy is dead—a man divine as myself is dead;
I look where he lies, white-faced and still, in the coffin—I
draw near;
I bend down and touch lightly with my lips the white face
in the coffin.
76 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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On Grave-Dancing [View all] Ocelot II Dec 2022 OP
Well 48656c6c6f20 Dec 2022 #1
I wholeheartedly disagree with the sentiment expressed here Xavier Breath Dec 2022 #3
Thank you! well said FirstLight Dec 2022 #2
Well, do any of those anti-us (bad ideology) deceased ones think about the hurt to others UTUSN Dec 2022 #4
What did she do with those politics? iemanja Dec 2022 #18
Same here. All I knew her for post-Cheers was gain tons of weight... brush Dec 2022 #22
Now they are saying she is a scientologist iemanja Dec 2022 #53
Wrong beliefs/policies have bad/wrong effects. Can't give you personal, specific details. UTUSN Dec 2022 #24
Specific details about something I've never heard about? iemanja Dec 2022 #51
Whew, that's so far a leap that I won't even take it personally UTUSN Dec 2022 #56
This thread is in the context of grave dancing iemanja Dec 2022 #75
Leaves of Grass is one of the best reads.. kentuck Dec 2022 #5
Playing Devil's advocate this time... The Grand Illuminist Dec 2022 #6
Thanks for the link AKwannabe Dec 2022 #26
Good commentary DENVERPOPS Dec 2022 #28
Because for some people spreading shit is irresistable and keeping quiet is impossible. milestogo Dec 2022 #7
I recall that she also had some terrible addiction issues. GoCubsGo Dec 2022 #8
It was cocaine, she was in rehab, came out clean but found Scientology debm55 Dec 2022 #46
to have no charity at all stopdiggin Dec 2022 #9
Beautifully stated. Just A Box Of Rain Dec 2022 #55
Kirstie Alley has loved ones hurting right now. summer_in_TX Dec 2022 #10
Thank you for your thoughtful post. I can't help but imagine ... luv2fly Dec 2022 #11
On this site I truly only grave danced on one newdayneeded Dec 2022 #12
Limbaugh met my negative criteria also. Ocelot II Dec 2022 #13
It's hard to comprehend the damage rush did. newdayneeded Dec 2022 #15
I'll save a spot on Rush's grave for you, flamenco? Shellback Squid Dec 2022 #14
I had no idea that she was conservative iemanja Dec 2022 #16
I'm not a fan of grave dancing either. The only people I'm ever relieved to hear they died... chowder66 Dec 2022 #17
On watering the grave? sarcasmo Dec 2022 #19
I tend to agree w your well thought out post... A very, very few would be on my list... electric_blue68 Dec 2022 #20
I don't care. Lunabell Dec 2022 #21
I don't really care, either. ShazzieB Dec 2022 #31
I did a nice little dance after Herman Cain died of covid. Lunabell Dec 2022 #32
In his case though, he never had the opportunity to get vaccinated (as it wasn't out yet) Polybius Dec 2022 #45
I agree, she had no influece on people politically JI7 Dec 2022 #23
She did enough to get attention. The Grand Illuminist Dec 2022 #47
Walt Whitman's poem is very moving -- and you are wise Hekate Dec 2022 #25
I honestly don't care about Kirstie Alley's politics. Initech Dec 2022 #27
She did try to downplay and give comfort. The Grand Illuminist Dec 2022 #41
Thank you... nt Raine Dec 2022 #29
❤️ littlemissmartypants Dec 2022 #30
Shocking DET Dec 2022 #33
Even Mob bosses will show up to another Mob boss funeral that was their enemy. Xolodno Dec 2022 #34
Some are calling it Karma LeftInTX Dec 2022 #35
If Scientology is a reason for grave-dancing... jmowreader Dec 2022 #36
She supported dump Meowmee Dec 2022 #37
I agree. If you don't fight back against Fascism then you are a fascist. Handler Dec 2022 #49
That has always been my opinion Meowmee Dec 2022 #67
Actually, in October of 2020 she withdrew her endorsement of TFG. Ocelot II Dec 2022 #54
Pointing out what she did and what she was is not hate or grave dancing Meowmee Dec 2022 #66
I didn't even know she died. BlackSkimmer Dec 2022 #38
One of the best things about threads like these... luv2fly Dec 2022 #39
True dat. BlackSkimmer Dec 2022 #42
I follow my mom's (RIP) lead MissMillie Dec 2022 #40
You're a good person. BlackSkimmer Dec 2022 #43
I'm as flawed and the next person MissMillie Dec 2022 #44
Mine was the same. BlackSkimmer Dec 2022 #50
My creed is "wish harm upon nobody" AntivaxHunters Dec 2022 #48
Bust a move. 48656c6c6f20 Dec 2022 #52
Is speaks volumes about someone who grave dances. Niagara Dec 2022 #57
Yes. The Dead Can Do No Further Harm. MineralMan Dec 2022 #58
With all due respect, they can. Happy Hoosier Dec 2022 #63
She can do that no longer. MineralMan Dec 2022 #65
My sentiments exactly. Life is too short to spend time rejoicing other people's deaths. mn9driver Dec 2022 #59
Grave dancing has the same effect that 'thoughts and prayers' do Torchlight Dec 2022 #60
Ain't gonna change the taste of mustard JonAndKatePlusABird Dec 2022 #62
I don't generally grave dance... BUT.... Happy Hoosier Dec 2022 #61
Thank you obamanut2012 Dec 2022 #64
Maybe, since she had addiction issues, she fell subject to Scientology and MAGA. I may disagree with debm55 Dec 2022 #69
That's fine for you. Happy Hoosier Dec 2022 #70
Another poster said she did not support Trump iemanja Dec 2022 #76
Hate is a destructive emotion Kaleva Dec 2022 #68
It's corrosive; it hurts you more than it hurts its target. Ocelot II Dec 2022 #72
+1 Kaleva Dec 2022 #74
It's an easy way for people to re-direct their self-loathing and insecurity. egduj Dec 2022 #71
Yes, that could be a possibility Kaleva Dec 2022 #73
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