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In reply to the discussion: Manchin Declines to Endorse Biden for Re-Election [View all]Celerity
(53,599 posts)43. Gottheimer was not a main point of my reply, BUT some of the Problem Solvers (Gottheimer
included) who are the House Caucus for its parent org, No Labels, and who are and were led by Gottheimer, repeatedly (along with a few Blue Dogs) tried to block and/or gut Biden's BBB (along with gutting the BIF), and they succeeded in getting Pelosi and Biden to de-link the BIF and the BBB, thus removing the leverage Pelosi and Schumer had to get both passed (which ended up playing a key role in the BBB dying).
Looking at final votes only often does not tell the tale of damage done (perfect example is Manchin shutting down BBB, which never came to a vote, or massive cuttings out of vital bill provisions, or Biden nominees blocked before they get to a final vote, such as Manchin (again) with Neera Tanden).
House Moderates Say They Wont Back Budget Vote Until Infrastructure Bill Passes
The letter from nine Democrats, enough to block passage, threatens their partys two-track plan to pass both a $3.5 trillion social policy budget blueprint and an infrastructure bill.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/13/us/politics/house-democrats-budget-infrastructure.html
Nine moderate House Democrats told Speaker Nancy Pelosi on Friday that they will not vote for a budget resolution meant to pave the way for the passage of a $3.5 trillion social policy package later this year until a Senate-approved infrastructure bill passes the House and is signed into law. The pledge, in a letter released early Friday, is a major rift that threatens the carefully choreographed, two-track effort by congressional Democrats and the Biden administration to enact both a trillion-dollar, bipartisan infrastructure deal and an even more ambitious but partisan social policy measure. The nine House members are more than enough to block consideration of the budget blueprint in a House where Democrats hold a three-seat majority.
snip
Ms. Pelosi has called the House back early from its summer recess to consider the budget resolution the week of Aug. 23. To assuage the progressives, Ms. Pelosi promised that she would not bring the infrastructure bill to a vote in the House until the Senate passed the social policy bill. The liberal progressives fear that once the infrastructure bill is signed, moderate Democrats in the House and Senate will withdraw their support for the far-reaching social policy measure. (my add: that is exactly what happened)
snip
The draft letter was signed by Mr. Gottheimer and Representatives Filemon Vela of Texas, Henry Cuellar of Texas, Ed Case of Hawaii, Kurt Schrader of Oregon, Carolyn Bourdeaux of Georgia, Jared Golden of Maine, Vicente Gonzalez of Texas and Jim Costa of California.
snip
This is President Bidens agenda, this is the Democrats agenda, this is what we ran on and we need to deliver, Representative Ilhan Omar of Minnesota, a leader in the Progressive Caucus, said of the social policy bill. It is important for us not to miss the mark, and I dont see a conflict. But her moderate colleagues do. We will not consider voting for a budget resolution until the bipartisan Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act passes the House and is signed into law, they wrote.
snip
The letter from nine Democrats, enough to block passage, threatens their partys two-track plan to pass both a $3.5 trillion social policy budget blueprint and an infrastructure bill.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/13/us/politics/house-democrats-budget-infrastructure.html
Nine moderate House Democrats told Speaker Nancy Pelosi on Friday that they will not vote for a budget resolution meant to pave the way for the passage of a $3.5 trillion social policy package later this year until a Senate-approved infrastructure bill passes the House and is signed into law. The pledge, in a letter released early Friday, is a major rift that threatens the carefully choreographed, two-track effort by congressional Democrats and the Biden administration to enact both a trillion-dollar, bipartisan infrastructure deal and an even more ambitious but partisan social policy measure. The nine House members are more than enough to block consideration of the budget blueprint in a House where Democrats hold a three-seat majority.
snip
Ms. Pelosi has called the House back early from its summer recess to consider the budget resolution the week of Aug. 23. To assuage the progressives, Ms. Pelosi promised that she would not bring the infrastructure bill to a vote in the House until the Senate passed the social policy bill. The liberal progressives fear that once the infrastructure bill is signed, moderate Democrats in the House and Senate will withdraw their support for the far-reaching social policy measure. (my add: that is exactly what happened)
snip
The draft letter was signed by Mr. Gottheimer and Representatives Filemon Vela of Texas, Henry Cuellar of Texas, Ed Case of Hawaii, Kurt Schrader of Oregon, Carolyn Bourdeaux of Georgia, Jared Golden of Maine, Vicente Gonzalez of Texas and Jim Costa of California.
snip
This is President Bidens agenda, this is the Democrats agenda, this is what we ran on and we need to deliver, Representative Ilhan Omar of Minnesota, a leader in the Progressive Caucus, said of the social policy bill. It is important for us not to miss the mark, and I dont see a conflict. But her moderate colleagues do. We will not consider voting for a budget resolution until the bipartisan Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act passes the House and is signed into law, they wrote.
snip
The BBB (after being gutted from $3.5 trillion down to $2.2 trillion, then down to $1.75 trillion) ended up dying in late 2021 due to Manchin. The Inflation Reduction Act of 2022 was later passed, but it was a pale shadow of the BBB.
All in all, out of Biden's original $6.1 trillion in new spend for the two infrastructure bills' frameworks ($2.6 trillion for the hard infrastructure, and $3.5 trillion for the BBB aka human infrastructure) only a total of $987 billion in new spend got passed ($550 billion in the BIF, and $437 billion of new spend in the IRA). 84 per cent of Biden's original framework new spend was flushed, with much of that cutting coming as the result of the Problem Solvers (led by Gottheimer) in the House, and Manchin/Sinema (who coordinated with the Problem Solvers) in the Senate.
BIF
Out of Biden's original $2.6 trillion framework in new spend, they ripped out around 80%, leaving only $550 billion in new spend, spread out over 10 years. The other $650 billion was simply renewals of pre-existing programmes (mostly transportation related) that have been on the books for years, under Trump, Obama, etc.
That $550 billion in new spend is, when measured per year (so $55billion X 10 years), less than 1% of all federal monies spent per year lately.
The Infrastructure Plan: Whats In and Whats Out
Biden's original plan:

What was left after they took a 2+ trillion USD hatchet to it

Out of Biden's original $2.6 trillion framework in new spend, they ripped out around 80%, leaving only $550 billion in new spend, spread out over 10 years. The other $650 billion was simply renewals of pre-existing programmes (mostly transportation related) that have been on the books for years, under Trump, Obama, etc.
That $550 billion in new spend is, when measured per year (so $55billion X 10 years), less than 1% of all federal monies spent per year lately.
The Infrastructure Plan: Whats In and Whats Out
Biden's original plan:

What was left after they took a 2+ trillion USD hatchet to it

Build Back Better Act
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Build_Back_Better_Act
The Build Back Better Act was a bill introduced in the 117th Congress to fulfill aspects of President Joe Biden's Build Back Better Plan. It was spun off from the American Jobs Plan, alongside the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, as a $3.5 trillion Democratic reconciliation package that included provisions related to climate change and social policy. Following negotiations, the price was lowered to approximately $2.2 trillion. The bill was passed 220213 by the House of Representatives on November 19, 2021. During negotiations, Senator Joe Manchin publicly pulled his support from the bill for not matching his envisioned cost of about $1.75 trillion due to provisions that lasted for less than ten years. After renegotiating the reduction of the Build Back Better Act's size, scope, and cost with Biden and Democratic congressional leaders, Manchin ultimately rejected the bill over the procedural tactics used.
The original version of the bill was estimated to cost $3.5 trillion. It may have increased the state and local tax deduction (SALT) deduction limit (which was set at $10,000 in the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017). It was also expected to include the Protecting the Right to Organize Act labor bill, set a clean electricity standard called the Clean Energy Performance Program,and reform immigration to the extent allowed by reconciliation rules.
snip
Heres whats in the Senate version of the Democrats $3.5 trillion spending plan
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/08/09/politics/senate-reconciliation-package/index.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Build_Back_Better_Act
The Build Back Better Act was a bill introduced in the 117th Congress to fulfill aspects of President Joe Biden's Build Back Better Plan. It was spun off from the American Jobs Plan, alongside the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, as a $3.5 trillion Democratic reconciliation package that included provisions related to climate change and social policy. Following negotiations, the price was lowered to approximately $2.2 trillion. The bill was passed 220213 by the House of Representatives on November 19, 2021. During negotiations, Senator Joe Manchin publicly pulled his support from the bill for not matching his envisioned cost of about $1.75 trillion due to provisions that lasted for less than ten years. After renegotiating the reduction of the Build Back Better Act's size, scope, and cost with Biden and Democratic congressional leaders, Manchin ultimately rejected the bill over the procedural tactics used.
The original version of the bill was estimated to cost $3.5 trillion. It may have increased the state and local tax deduction (SALT) deduction limit (which was set at $10,000 in the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017). It was also expected to include the Protecting the Right to Organize Act labor bill, set a clean electricity standard called the Clean Energy Performance Program,and reform immigration to the extent allowed by reconciliation rules.
snip
Heres whats in the Senate version of the Democrats $3.5 trillion spending plan
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/08/09/politics/senate-reconciliation-package/index.html
Inflation Reduction Act of 2022
https://www.investopedia.com/inflation-reduction-act-of-2022-6362263
The Inflation Reduction Act of 2022, H.R. 5376, is designed to reduce the deficit and lower inflation while investing in domestic energy production and lowering healthcare drug costs. The bill became law with President Bidens signature on Aug. 16, 2022. In essence, the law is a scaled-down version of the Build Back Better Act proposed by the Biden administration in 2021.
The law is expected to raise $737 billion, require total investments of $437 billion, and result in a deficit reduction of more than $300 billion. It allows Medicare to negotiate lower prescription drug prices and extends the expanded Affordable Care Act (ACA) program for three years, through 2025.
https://www.investopedia.com/inflation-reduction-act-of-2022-6362263
The Inflation Reduction Act of 2022, H.R. 5376, is designed to reduce the deficit and lower inflation while investing in domestic energy production and lowering healthcare drug costs. The bill became law with President Bidens signature on Aug. 16, 2022. In essence, the law is a scaled-down version of the Build Back Better Act proposed by the Biden administration in 2021.
The law is expected to raise $737 billion, require total investments of $437 billion, and result in a deficit reduction of more than $300 billion. It allows Medicare to negotiate lower prescription drug prices and extends the expanded Affordable Care Act (ACA) program for three years, through 2025.
more
Rep. Josh Gottheimer (D-N.J.) is gauging support among House centrists for a counteroffer to the emerging Senate reconciliation package, with one big clause: No new taxes.
https://www.axios.com/2022/07/13/manchin-schumer-reconciliation-house-centrists
Why it matters: Any attempt to modify a deal that Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer may reach with Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) could scuttle the entire package. That could deprive President Biden and vulnerable lawmakers of a pre-election win at a time of real weakness.
Gottheimer's discussions target a small group that includes Reps. Carolyn Bourdeaux (D-Ga.), Ed Case (D-Hawaii), Tom Suozzi (D-N.Y.), Susie Lee (D-Nev.) Dean Phillips (D-Minn.) and Mikie Sherrill (D-N.J.).
The big picture: Manchin has been adamant he wants higher taxes on corporations to bring down the deficit and help fight inflation. For months, his shorthand has been a 2:1 ratio of fresh revenues to new spending, with some $500 billion going to deficit reduction.
But early House discussions led by Gottheimer don't envision any new taxes on corporations or wealthy individuals. The Trump tax cuts on corporations and individuals would remain in place. Gottheimer's formula would leave $177 billion for deficit reduction a step toward Manchin but a long way from his roughly $500 billion target.
https://www.axios.com/2022/07/13/manchin-schumer-reconciliation-house-centrists
Why it matters: Any attempt to modify a deal that Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer may reach with Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) could scuttle the entire package. That could deprive President Biden and vulnerable lawmakers of a pre-election win at a time of real weakness.
Gottheimer's discussions target a small group that includes Reps. Carolyn Bourdeaux (D-Ga.), Ed Case (D-Hawaii), Tom Suozzi (D-N.Y.), Susie Lee (D-Nev.) Dean Phillips (D-Minn.) and Mikie Sherrill (D-N.J.).
The big picture: Manchin has been adamant he wants higher taxes on corporations to bring down the deficit and help fight inflation. For months, his shorthand has been a 2:1 ratio of fresh revenues to new spending, with some $500 billion going to deficit reduction.
But early House discussions led by Gottheimer don't envision any new taxes on corporations or wealthy individuals. The Trump tax cuts on corporations and individuals would remain in place. Gottheimer's formula would leave $177 billion for deficit reduction a step toward Manchin but a long way from his roughly $500 billion target.
Scoop: Manchin and Sinema advising House centrists
https://www.axios.com/2021/08/19/manchin-sinema-advising-house-centrists
Sens. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) and Kyrsten Sinema (D-Ariz.) are privately advising the nine House centrist lawmakers (Josh Gottheimer of NJ, Filemon Vela of TX, Henry Cuellar of TX, Ed Case of HI, Kurt Schrader of OR, Carolyn Bourdeaux of GA, Jared Golden of ME, Vicente Gonzalez of TX, and Jim Costa of CA) trying to force Speaker Nancy Pelosi to hold a quick vote on the Senate-passed bipartisan infrastructure deal, lawmakers and aides tell Axios.
Why it matters: The two moderates who've stirred the biggest frustrations and held the most sway in their party over the infrastructure negotiations are helping allies in the House to stake out and defend their centrist position. They're offering encouragement and advice on how to negotiate with the White House and congressional leadership. Their behind-the-scenes support also indicates the degree to which Manchin and Sinema have prioritized getting the $1.2 trillion bipartisan infrastructure deal to final passage and in front of Biden for his signature.
The big picture: The conversations are bolstering House centrists' resolve. Since publicly demanding last Friday that Pelosi first bring the infrastructure bill to the floor before considering a larger package through a $3.5 trillion budget plan, the nine lawmakers have been subject to a combination of private scorn and public pressure.
Pelosi referred to their tactics as ??amateur hour in a leadership call earlier this week, Politico reports. On Tuesday, the White House released a statement endorsing Pelosis approach, expressing hope that every Democratic member supports this effort to advance these important legislative actions. Pelosi quoted from that statement in a Dear Colleague letter she sent to reiterate her position. The nonpartisan group "No Labels" is launching a six-figure ad by on national cable to give some air cover to the nine lawmakers. "This unbreakable nine is showing America that we can still do amazing things," says the ad's narrator.
snip
https://www.axios.com/2021/08/19/manchin-sinema-advising-house-centrists
Sens. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) and Kyrsten Sinema (D-Ariz.) are privately advising the nine House centrist lawmakers (Josh Gottheimer of NJ, Filemon Vela of TX, Henry Cuellar of TX, Ed Case of HI, Kurt Schrader of OR, Carolyn Bourdeaux of GA, Jared Golden of ME, Vicente Gonzalez of TX, and Jim Costa of CA) trying to force Speaker Nancy Pelosi to hold a quick vote on the Senate-passed bipartisan infrastructure deal, lawmakers and aides tell Axios.
Why it matters: The two moderates who've stirred the biggest frustrations and held the most sway in their party over the infrastructure negotiations are helping allies in the House to stake out and defend their centrist position. They're offering encouragement and advice on how to negotiate with the White House and congressional leadership. Their behind-the-scenes support also indicates the degree to which Manchin and Sinema have prioritized getting the $1.2 trillion bipartisan infrastructure deal to final passage and in front of Biden for his signature.
The big picture: The conversations are bolstering House centrists' resolve. Since publicly demanding last Friday that Pelosi first bring the infrastructure bill to the floor before considering a larger package through a $3.5 trillion budget plan, the nine lawmakers have been subject to a combination of private scorn and public pressure.
Pelosi referred to their tactics as ??amateur hour in a leadership call earlier this week, Politico reports. On Tuesday, the White House released a statement endorsing Pelosis approach, expressing hope that every Democratic member supports this effort to advance these important legislative actions. Pelosi quoted from that statement in a Dear Colleague letter she sent to reiterate her position. The nonpartisan group "No Labels" is launching a six-figure ad by on national cable to give some air cover to the nine lawmakers. "This unbreakable nine is showing America that we can still do amazing things," says the ad's narrator.
snip
And again, to show the poison that No Labels is (which was the main point of my long reply to the other poster above, not Gottheimer):
No Labels calls Jan. 6 committee 'partisan' and 'divisive' (which of course was pumped up by Fux News)
https://www.realclearpolicy.com/articles/2022/05/13/five_facts_on_the_january_6_committee_832087.html

The Big Insight: Despite an early attempt at bipartisanship, the January 6 Committees work has become a partisan exercise about which the public is skeptical.

https://www.realclearpolicy.com/articles/2022/05/13/five_facts_on_the_january_6_committee_832087.html

The Big Insight: Despite an early attempt at bipartisanship, the January 6 Committees work has become a partisan exercise about which the public is skeptical.
Link to tweet

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He's toast in '24 anyway. the out going gov is going to run and manchin doesn't stand a chance
PortTack
Mar 2023
#2
He's not always a number on our tally sheet. He's also a number on theirs.
onecaliberal
Mar 2023
#18
He is in WV. Why is anyone surprised. Trump won that state by a big margin, and he is just playing
JohnSJ
Mar 2023
#11
This headline is deceitful clickbait. Manchin did not "decline to endorse Biden."
Hortensis
Mar 2023
#14
Ocasio-Cortez won't commit to backing Biden in 2024: 'We'll cross that bridge when we get to it'
lapucelle
Mar 2023
#25
Also see this potential rat-fucking from the oh-so problematic Problem Solvers Caucus's parent group
Celerity
Mar 2023
#30
How interesting that anyone sees Josh Gottheimer as the "true archvillain of the Biden presidency".
lapucelle
Mar 2023
#32
Gottheimer was not a main point of my reply, BUT some of the Problem Solvers (Gottheimer
Celerity
Mar 2023
#43
It was one of many parts of that reply & not the lede at all. What are your thoughts on the rest of
Celerity
Mar 2023
#49
How interesting to lump Representative Gottheimer in with putative "ratfuckers"
lapucelle
Mar 2023
#42
see post 43 as a rebuttal to post 42 (a reply to you) and post 32 (a reply to me)
Celerity
Mar 2023
#44
You were very selective about it. Fuck that Dana Bash, nothing but shit stirring POS.nt
Autumn
Mar 2023
#37
It's would be rather stupid to endorse someone who hasn't announced they are running. Better to
Autumn
Mar 2023
#51