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sprinkleeninow

(22,370 posts)

12. ...

Reply to Ocelot II (Reply #6)

Tue May 9, 2023, 03:22 PM

May 2023

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[Really attempting to behave, but it's been difficult.]

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OK, definitely need some clarification from our attorneys here. [View all] WinstonSmith4740 May 2023 OP

Groping vs penetration. Sneederbunk May 2023 #1

There are a lot of ways to commit sexual assault. Tomconroy May 2023 #2

And what was used to penetrate. Ocelot II May 2023 #6

Lol. Tomconroy May 2023 #9

... sprinkleeninow May 2023 #12

LOL! I love it! n/t EndlessWire May 2023 #44

Exactly Nevilledog May 2023 #29

What was used and if penetration occurred; Rape can involve a foreign object or a penis. allegorical oracle May 2023 #53

Yes, but the instruction in this case involved only the question of whether Ocelot II May 2023 #54

I guessing it comes down to they didn't find it conclusive that he penetrated her with his penis Hugh_Lebowski May 2023 #3

His protests of "no rape" is the first thing that went through my mind. WinstonSmith4740 May 2023 #7

Reading that she couldn't tell if it was his fingers or penis because it was from behind. Nevilledog May 2023 #31

No rape - Ocelot II May 2023 #34

I do hope the media makes a big deal about it. :) LiberalFighter May 2023 #46

That would be the only "big deal." Ocelot II May 2023 #47

My gut says that count was a compromise decision Siwsan May 2023 #4

I don't know what the jury instructions said, but from comments on MSNBC Ocelot II May 2023 #5

Instructions Bernardo de La Paz May 2023 #11

The jury special verdict form broke it into two separate questions - Ocelot II May 2023 #14

Were they using the criminal definitions of those terms? Ms. Toad May 2023 #21

They used a definition of rape as requiring penetration Ocelot II May 2023 #22

. Effete Snob May 2023 #25

But that's the *criminal* statute defining the *crime* of rape. Ocelot II May 2023 #26

yes, and that is the same distinction in the criminal statute, verbatim. Effete Snob May 2023 #42

OK, there we have it. Thanks. Ocelot II May 2023 #45

Looks like the original claims were battery and defamation. Ms. Toad May 2023 #70

That would be bad too. LiberalFighter May 2023 #49

Yeah, it's definitional EndlessWire May 2023 #52

I heard it originally characterized as "sexual abuse". n/t whathehell May 2023 #8

Clearly, they did believe he grabbed her by the p***y. Ocelot II May 2023 #10

... sprinkleeninow May 2023 #58

no intercourse for sexual assault...but victim could not be sure he put his penis in her...couldn't Demsrule86 May 2023 #13

Considering what Stormy Daniels said, I guess that's not surprising... Ocelot II May 2023 #16

She wasn't sure she had felt his penis, not just fingers unc70 May 2023 #17

I guess Stormy was right. Ocelot II May 2023 #48

Not a lawyer, but just heard on MSNBC LuckyCharms May 2023 #15

That would be a state law variation. Ms. Toad May 2023 #19

In North Carolina, penetration by penis into vagina is required to meet definition of rape. yardwork May 2023 #35

Ohio trivia - Ms. Toad May 2023 #61

Wow. I'd never heard that. yardwork May 2023 #63

Guess it was a case of being careful what you wish for. Ms. Toad May 2023 #64

He was not found guilty of anything. Ms. Toad May 2023 #18

. Effete Snob May 2023 #24

That's the criminal statute. I'd like to see the civil jury instructions. Ocelot II May 2023 #27

I haven't found anything yet - Ms. Toad May 2023 #30

I can't find them either; it looks like you have to buy the book. Ocelot II May 2023 #32

Try the docket Effete Snob May 2023 #39

Thank you! I should have thought to look there in the first place. Ocelot II May 2023 #51

Yes: NY law defines rape as including SEXUAL INTERCOURSE. Hortensis May 2023 #65

It's on the docket Effete Snob May 2023 #40

Thanks! Ms. Toad May 2023 #60

I know how you feel. Effete Snob May 2023 #62

Good luck with this. Many have tried... yardwork May 2023 #36

Shocking, huh? You'd be less shocked in France, Hortensis May 2023 #66

Rape he did it, sexual assault he tried. GoodRaisin May 2023 #20

Not exactly. yardwork May 2023 #37

But the judge allowed the Hollywood Access tape too. Trump told the jury exactly who he was GoodRaisin May 2023 #56

Right. I'm just saying the rape issue is a technicality. yardwork May 2023 #57

Understood. GoodRaisin May 2023 #59

Here Effete Snob May 2023 #23

What are the civil jury instructions? The criminal definition might not apply. Ocelot II May 2023 #28

From what was partially transcribed here... Effete Snob May 2023 #33

The criminal definitions were used Effete Snob May 2023 #38

A penis is necessary - but since Carroll couldn't tell for sure Ocelot II May 2023 #41

"A penis is necessary" Effete Snob May 2023 #43

His is apparently indistinguishable from a finger. Ocelot II May 2023 #50

Presumably his finger doesn't ejaculate Effete Snob May 2023 #55

The definition in most states is similar in that rape is Hortensis May 2023 #67

Assault is the fear of imminent and offensive contact. Tommy Carcetti May 2023 #68

Also wildly different between states Effete Snob May 2023 #69

IANAL, but it is my understanding that in NY ExWhoDoesntCare May 2023 #71