General Discussion

Celerity

(54,801 posts)

68. Adding more duds to Ukrainian soil only increases the chances that Ukrainian civilians die from

Sun Jul 9, 2023, 03:02 PM

Jul 2023

those undetonated ordinances down the road. Many of the areas that our cluster bombs would be fired into are not saturated as of now.

Also, this entire proposition is based upon a false dilemma. We do not have to resort to using (via proxy) cluster bombs to defeat the Russians. We can ramp up production of non cluster ordinances. The US of 2023 has the largest potential capability for weapons production of any nation in human history. The trillions upon trillions of dollars we have spent on the war/security/surveillance state just since I was born in 1996 attests to that.

If it was indeed the case that one relatively small kinetic theatre of war is indeed draining us to point of munition depletion, then we are in far worse trouble than either you or I can imagine.

As for your statement:

I'll take you more seriously

I can assure you that the setting of my moral compass is not predicated upon whether you do or don't.

.

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I'm with Biden on the cluster bombs [View all] Stinky The Clown Jul 2023 OP

Ukraine cannot be allowed to lose HAB911 Jul 2023 #1

+1 2naSalit Jul 2023 #6

+1 mitch96 Jul 2023 #16

+1000 CaptainTruth Jul 2023 #37

Me too Red Mountain Jul 2023 #2

We can't demine it. former9thward Jul 2023 #9

We CAN demine it, if people lose their death grip on the idea it has to be 100% complete Bernardo de La Paz Jul 2023 #18

Russia is already using cluster bombs in Ukraine Bernardo de La Paz Jul 2023 #19

Yes, Russia and Ukraine, have refused to outlaw cluster bombs. former9thward Jul 2023 #26

Ukraine started using cluster munitions a lot earlier than 2022 Xolodno Jul 2023 #46

I am too! CaliforniaPeggy Jul 2023 #3

What about all the children who get killed & mutilated womanofthehills Jul 2023 #11

Those are Russian munitions with a 40% fail rate. The same being used in Maru Kitteh Jul 2023 #28

The cluster bombs the US is sending Ukraine have failure/dud rates gar beyond the 2% you're claiming Celerity Jul 2023 #51

Me too. Aristus Jul 2023 #4

Problem with cluster bombs - innocent children & civilians get killed womanofthehills Jul 2023 #8

Innocent children in Ukraine are getting kidnapped to Russia in thousands. c-bombs pale in compariso Bernardo de La Paz Jul 2023 #21

+1. ShazzieB Jul 2023 #27

The children of Ukraine have been targeted since the beginning: in bombings of schools and... Hekate Jul 2023 #35

Ya know who is killing innocent children and civilians? Happy Hoosier Jul 2023 #41

Ditto. sinkingfeeling Jul 2023 #5

I'm a bit torn about it, but generally agree with the decision... Wounded Bear Jul 2023 #7

No one can be responsible about it. former9thward Jul 2023 #13

It doesn't matter who is responsible- unexploded ones last a decade womanofthehills Jul 2023 #14

Too bad. Russian war crimes in Ukraine are far greater, far more horrific Bernardo de La Paz Jul 2023 #22

Yes, Russia needs to fuck ALL THE WAY off. ShazzieB Jul 2023 #29

Wat is terrible. Happy Hoosier Jul 2023 #42

Our allies are opposed to it. former9thward Jul 2023 #10

This message was self-deleted by its author Elessar Zappa Jul 2023 #61

Both side have already been using cluster bombs ripcord Jul 2023 #12

Russian using cluster bombs in foreign countries. Ukraine going to use them inside Ukraine. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Jul 2023 #15

I suspect one of the reasons behind this is the grim possibility Hortensis Jul 2023 #17

The Forever War, 1974, Joe Haldeman, fuk it, just give the Ukes nukes Shanti Shanti Shanti Jul 2023 #20

Nukes is WORLD loses. No. NO. NO! Bernardo de La Paz Jul 2023 #23

OK so we have stockpiles of napalm bombs just rusting away, we should give them to the Ukes too then Shanti Shanti Shanti Jul 2023 #62

they actually had nukes and gave them up in return for russia promising something or another prodigitalson Jul 2023 #24

Whatever it takes to dislodge / kill / expel the Russians and their mercenaries dalton99a Jul 2023 #25

You can't play by the rules and win a war Mr.Bill Jul 2023 #30

Much like WWII was for the Allies,... LudwigPastorius Jul 2023 #31

Global nuclear war is already a risk orangecrush Jul 2023 #32

Going from bad to worse and no end in sight NT Tickle Jul 2023 #33

There is some good rational for it: Disaffected Jul 2023 #34

A persuasive argument. Duppers Jul 2023 #39

TY Disaffected Jul 2023 #40

The cluster bombs the US is sending Ukraine have failure/dud rates far beyond what the poster claims Celerity Jul 2023 #48

Maybe so. Disaffected Jul 2023 #57

Yes, I think that your second paragraph sums it up more than anything. GoCubsGo Jul 2023 #56

Me too. I've watched hundreds of videos of the things Russian... CaptainTruth Jul 2023 #36

Cluster bombs are some nasty, nasty shit . . . AverageOldGuy Jul 2023 #38

This is NOT total war. This is NOT WW III. Stick to reality. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Jul 2023 #50

So am I 👍 nt Raine Jul 2023 #43

Hell no. Using them is a war crime, same as chemical weapons. We are better than this. Celerity Jul 2023 #44

I agree. BlackSkimmer Jul 2023 #49

Post removed Post removed Jul 2023 #54

Disagreeing with a policy I find morally wrong is hardly 'campaigning against him'. Ludicrous claim. Celerity Jul 2023 #55

I'll take you more seriously on this when you respond to those of us who've pointed out Emrys Jul 2023 #64

Adding more duds to Ukrainian soil only increases the chances that Ukrainian civilians die from Celerity Jul 2023 #68

Who is this "we" you're invoking? Emrys Jul 2023 #70

I'm beyond disgusted with these policy actions. What is going on here? I can't believe some people liberal_mama Jul 2023 #60

+1000 roamer65 Jul 2023 #45

There is no more napalm in the inventory dalton99a Jul 2023 #66

Damn. roamer65 Jul 2023 #67

The last US stockpiles of napalm were destroyed over 22 years ago. Celerity Jul 2023 #69

How does a person get to that point to abandon morality. Xolodno Jul 2023 #47

And legality? Brenda Jul 2023 #53

I think it's appalling. But I'm not surprised at all by the past actions. n/t liberal_mama Jul 2023 #58

Wait until you're faced with a stark reality: Emrys Jul 2023 #63

Because morally the alternative is worse. boston bean Jul 2023 #71

Me too Kaleva Jul 2023 #52

Just occurred to me madville Jul 2023 #59

One question: How do most Ukrainians feel? Hortensis Jul 2023 #65

I can't speak for them Red Mountain Jul 2023 #72

Over 20M had to abandon their homes to flee Ukraine, but Hortensis Jul 2023 #73