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cyclonefence

(5,155 posts)
Sun Jul 23, 2023, 12:12 PM Jul 2023

I think being "woke" ought to make white people feel bad [View all]

As Frank Zappa put it, "I'm white, but lots of times I wish I was black."

Of course little children, white or black, shouldn't be made to feel bad about the color of their skin. But they ought, white or black, to be taught what happened. Slavery is a fact, and hiding that fact doesn't do anybody any good.

But by the sixth grade, white and black children ought to understand that what helped make--maybe more than anything else--the US the economic powerhouse it became from the late 18th century to today is the *fact* that rich white Americans had the inestimable benefit--over the rest of the world!--of not having to pay for labor in the production of some of the greatest money-making exports of the time: cotton, indigo, tobacco. Imagine the advantage of not having to pay workers!

Whether or not your family owned slaves--even if you spring from the loins of the greatest white abolitionists of the time--if you are white, you benefited from slave labor. Slave labor gave rich white men, like the Founding Fathers, the wealth and leisure time to become highly educated (ironically, it was the Enlightenment, Rights of Man and all that) while making sure the labor force continued to be unable to read.

It of course should not be presented so baldly to young children, but they ought to begin to learn about white debt--America's debt--to the black contributions to our wealth and greatness. By high school, I think children should have an understanding of systemic racism, why it is wrong, and white people's embracing of it--consciously and unconsciously--and what we all can do to begin to address it.

"Woke" is something all children by 18 ought to understand, and if it makes them ashamed to be white--well, good. That's impetus to find out what to do about it, and reading Ta-Nahisi Coates is the best way I know to begin.

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This country was literally built on white supremacy ismnotwasm Jul 2023 #1
Hogwash wryter2000 Jul 2023 #2
This message was self-deleted by its author Stardust Mirror Jul 2023 #4
Zappa didn't say he wanted to be black Stardust Mirror Jul 2023 #5
I have no problem with that wryter2000 Jul 2023 #9
Exactly NowISeetheLight Jul 2023 #6
IMHO, the whole thing about children feeling guilty is made up wryter2000 Jul 2023 #10
Agreed NowISeetheLight Jul 2023 #11
As so often happens here at DU cyclonefence Jul 2023 #18
Often enough, that's the desired effect. Iggo Jul 2023 #21
I read the post wryter2000 Jul 2023 #31
Nope cyclonefence Jul 2023 #38
From the end of the post wryter2000 Jul 2023 #45
How long should we be ashamed for events that we had no control over? Chainfire Jul 2023 #3
Starts with the Children NowISeetheLight Jul 2023 #13
Just treat everyone fairly in life. It's that simple. No one should be ashamed... brush Jul 2023 #17
But don't you see cyclonefence Jul 2023 #39
Well of course, but the chances of reparations paid to descendants of... brush Jul 2023 #40
I don't dare speak of financial reparations cyclonefence Jul 2023 #43
You understand. Reparations will probably never happen. brush Jul 2023 #44
Fostering unpleasant feelings only centers white people in discussions about race, which isn't super WhiskeyGrinder Jul 2023 #7
I partly agree with you gulliver Jul 2023 #12
This is counterproductive. Sky Jewels Jul 2023 #8
No one should be ashamed, even if family history has... brush Jul 2023 #16
Well put TheProle Jul 2023 #33
Depends on what you want to produce. Iggo Jul 2023 #22
People should be ashamed of their skin color? Sympthsical Jul 2023 #14
Great post. So well stated. brush Jul 2023 #15
bad messaging treestar Jul 2023 #19
Agree 💯👍 NT Tickle Jul 2023 #24
"Quit teaching black kids they are victims of racism and they won't feel like they are" Stardust Mirror Jul 2023 #26
how often does that happen in the 2020s? treestar Jul 2023 #27
how often do blacks experience racism in the 2020s? Stardust Mirror Jul 2023 #29
the police were tried and do lose the job treestar Jul 2023 #35
Teach the truth. And teach also of the great successes of Black people... brush Jul 2023 #42
Well, that's a weird thing to say. Iggo Jul 2023 #20
If we didn't write nonsense like this, the RW would have to invent it. tritsofme Jul 2023 #23
Well, I see I'm late to the party again DFW Jul 2023 #25
Actually, the Zappa lyrics are maxsolomon Jul 2023 #28
That makes a lot more sense than him saying he wished he was black. ShazzieB Jul 2023 #41
No thanks, I'm not playing that game. nt Raine Jul 2023 #30
I think the term woke is hopelessly cheesy and lame BannonsLiver Jul 2023 #32
I s'pose if I've ever felt pride towards the actions of my ancestors, Torchlight Jul 2023 #34
Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2023 #36
I know people whose parents and grandparents were actual Nazis. Should they feel bad? hunter Jul 2023 #37
after watching Joy today, I was wondering if maybe the real reason tiny d is against black history ecstatic Jul 2023 #46
I think there's truth in what you say cyclonefence Jul 2023 #47
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