General Discussion

bigtree

(94,375 posts)

31. we live here.

Sat Oct 7, 2023, 02:35 PM

Oct 2023

...there's absolutely no excuse for Americans to encourage violence from either side.

We should be asserting that Palestinian civilians have a right to protection from violent attacks, as well.

We used to understand that both sides' violence begat more violence. Now it's all just about Israel's civilians having that right and expectation of safety from attacks.

We can just ignore the fact that Israeli soldiers regulary snatch and detain Palestinians without charges; and that their lives are as under occupation, if not technically in fact.

We're not Israel. We need to make sure we're not just encouraging more violence there, even though many in this country without a stake in that struggle are advocating for it today.

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Watching the videos coming out of Israel today and reading [View all] Tomconroy Oct 2023 OP

All I know is it's Biden's fault. FalloutShelter Oct 2023 #1

Rick Scott is literally on Twitter saying just that. Marius25 Oct 2023 #12

Shocker, right! FalloutShelter Oct 2023 #21

Of course he is.. Both Ends Blame Cha Oct 2023 #70

I listened to Biden's speech today on NPR. wnylib Oct 2023 #87

Wonder where that reporter was from.? Cha Oct 2023 #89

No visual since it was NPR and their reporters did not identify the wnylib Oct 2023 #90

Thanks. Cha Oct 2023 #91

"The occupation of Gaza" -- lol what would you say its status is now? WhiskeyGrinder Oct 2023 #2

Just watch and see. The law of FAFO. Tomconroy Oct 2023 #3

No one can defend HAMAS (or its Iranian masters) but kindly don't forget all that has transpired-- hlthe2b Oct 2023 #7

I'm mainly talking to the visceral reaction that Israelis will Tomconroy Oct 2023 #9

There is no doubt about that. hlthe2b Oct 2023 #10

wtf did civilians in Gaza do to deserve retaliation? bigtree Oct 2023 #15

+10000000000000000 Celerity Oct 2023 #79

There hasn't been anyone occupying Gaza for 14 years. Marius25 Oct 2023 #13

Fair -- open air prisons aren't necessarily an occupation. WhiskeyGrinder Oct 2023 #20

Does Gaza not share a border with Egypt not under Israeli control? nt EX500rider Oct 2023 #30

Egypt is blockading Gaza too, yet nobody ever complains about that. Marius25 Oct 2023 #41

No They only control the northern border, the airspace and territorial waters. Not an occupation... hlthe2b Oct 2023 #22

Gaza was not occupied. former9thward Oct 2023 #94

K&R rollin74 Oct 2023 #4

Gaza is already occupied RocRizzo55 Oct 2023 #5

You may think it is. And you may be in for a shock. Tomconroy Oct 2023 #6

Please read some history. PLEASE!!!!! Gaza (and West Bank) have been occupied since 1967!!!!!!!!! hlthe2b Oct 2023 #8

No, they haven't. Marius25 Oct 2023 #14

Not for lack of trying as Israel established 144 settlements in the West Bank, including 100 the UN hlthe2b Oct 2023 #19

Settlements, control of government, the police, taxation, military presence ... Igel Oct 2023 #42

Egypt is blockading Gaza too, but nobody complains about that. Marius25 Oct 2023 #43

Again, I refuse to argue with those who will not examine the excesses on both sides. hlthe2b Oct 2023 #47

When Israel evacuated the settlements, the first thing the Pals did was destroy the hothouses. toesonthenose Oct 2023 #25

Gaza has not been occupied by Israel since 2005 nt EX500rider Oct 2023 #32

If you read the subthread before posting: hlthe2b Oct 2023 #34

Impossible for Israel to blockade Gaza when they don't control the border with Eqypt. EX500rider Oct 2023 #35

Hardly. And they have in all the impacts that implies. hlthe2b Oct 2023 #38

The fact is Gaza could do all the trade they need thru the Egyptian border... EX500rider Oct 2023 #39

"They" is HAMAS but I guess you just lump the entire population together. hlthe2b Oct 2023 #52

Maybe voting Hamas in in the 1st place was a bad idea EX500rider Oct 2023 #74

I can't wait until you educate all of us on how they could have stopped them. hlthe2b Oct 2023 #75

yes, no way to overthrown a unpopular government, never been done in history EX500rider Oct 2023 #76

Your advocating violent coups is noted. Is that what you think the US should do? The world asks hlthe2b Oct 2023 #77

Advocating violent coups against terror orgs who never hold elections again.. EX500rider Oct 2023 #78

Who has the guns among the populace in the region? Hmm? It really isn't like your cartoon avatar. hlthe2b Oct 2023 #80

The United Nations disagrees with you and others Celerity Oct 2023 #103

Citing "United Nations" as a definitive source on this issue is a joke. Tomconroy Oct 2023 #105

No, the UN is not a joke on this, and I also posted another discussion that takes on multiple claims Celerity Oct 2023 #107

Yeah, by Hamas. toesonthenose Oct 2023 #24

Yes and blockaded there/trapped there by Israel. hlthe2b Oct 2023 #57

They are not "trapped". former9thward Oct 2023 #95

Moment in time fallacy--common in those who don't learn history (or statistics, for that matter). hlthe2b Oct 2023 #96

At least I don't get my information from people who have never been there. former9thward Oct 2023 #97

Nor do I. How ridiculous. So apparently you think facts are to be ignored if you did not witness hlthe2b Oct 2023 #98

Seems like you are projecting... former9thward Oct 2023 #99

Another nonsequitur I see hlthe2b Oct 2023 #100

Hamas has ensured that there will be thousands of deaths TexasDem69 Oct 2023 #11

what will actually be accomplished by retaliatory bombings bigtree Oct 2023 #26

Hamas hides behind civilians TexasDem69 Oct 2023 #27

we live here. bigtree Oct 2023 #31

Hamas is responsible for any resulting deaths TexasDem69 Oct 2023 #62

no one has a right to kill unarmed civilians bigtree Oct 2023 #71

Israel responding with force to Hamas' terrorism isn't overreaction TexasDem69 Oct 2023 #82

before that it was the PLO bigtree Oct 2023 #93

Israel certainly has the right to strike at missile launching locations, plus.. EX500rider Oct 2023 #33

and they will kill civilians in the process bigtree Oct 2023 #36

Israel is a democracy, unlike Hama's run Gaza. EX500rider Oct 2023 #37

yeah bigtree Oct 2023 #40

They react as any country under attack from their neighbors. EX500rider Oct 2023 #44

we are not Israel or Palestine bigtree Oct 2023 #46

👆 This👆 hlthe2b Oct 2023 #59

I'm not unsympathetic to that view, but... Happy Hoosier Oct 2023 #60

"existential" - potentially for all of us. Will Israel bomb Iran? UTUSN Oct 2023 #16

More than likely...YES. roamer65 Oct 2023 #17

Less than a 50% chance, I'd say, given just what's public. n/t Igel Oct 2023 #45

Longer it goes, the more likely it becomes. roamer65 Oct 2023 #49

if real evidence is produced showing iran was involved then moonshinegnomie Oct 2023 #108

I don't think the two state solution died today Amishman Oct 2023 #18

and Netanyahu... hlthe2b Oct 2023 #23

agreed Recycle_Guru Oct 2023 #29

HAMAS is firmly "from the river to the sea" thinkers. Igel Oct 2023 #51

I think Hamas will be hunted down like al queda and ISIS now Recycle_Guru Oct 2023 #28

We are significantly closer to a Middle Eastern war today. roamer65 Oct 2023 #50

all the more reason for the U.S. to encourage a cessation of violence bigtree Oct 2023 #54

We aren't an impartial broker. roamer65 Oct 2023 #56

yes. Putin, Bannon, Trump Recycle_Guru Oct 2023 #88

It'll be harder. Igel Oct 2023 #58

This message was self-deleted by its author BannonsLiver Oct 2023 #48

They've slipped before. DavidDvorkin Oct 2023 #53

This message was self-deleted by its author Xavier Breath Oct 2023 #55

Not sure what you are implying, but I've seen no one say Israel does not have the right to defend hlthe2b Oct 2023 #63

Nothing similar has happened on the West Bank yet. Tomconroy Oct 2023 #66

Yup. Yet. hlthe2b Oct 2023 #68

Recollections may vary. BannonsLiver Oct 2023 #73

Like clockwork. Behind the Aegis Oct 2023 #65

I normally don't post in Re: Israel because I've been vilified PCIntern Oct 2023 #61

3838 deaths to 168 Johnny2X2X Oct 2023 #64

Israelis, not Israelites. DavidDvorkin Oct 2023 #67

What's so special about 2005? Mosby Oct 2023 #69

Why? TexasDem69 Oct 2023 #83

What? Johnny2X2X Oct 2023 #85

Sorry TexasDem69 Oct 2023 #86

They if you're trying to derail EllieBC Oct 2023 #92

It was Stupid & Suicidal to Attack Cha Oct 2023 #72

Just a thought Bmoboy Oct 2023 #81

Faux news just blamed brettdale Oct 2023 #84

Israel is no angel RANDYWILDMAN Oct 2023 #101

And people on DU complain about bothsiderism. Tomconroy Oct 2023 #102

Why ? RANDYWILDMAN Oct 2023 #104

I stand with Israel like Joe Biden said today. Tomconroy Oct 2023 #106

We can disagree can't we RANDYWILDMAN Oct 2023 #110

Yes. You are reading that wrong. Tomconroy Oct 2023 #111

after 9/11 we went nuts moonshinegnomie Oct 2023 #109

I think RocRizzo55 Oct 2023 #113

Israel will never going to agree to a 2 state solution. Bibi's policies led to all this. ZonkerHarris Oct 2023 #112