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(3,119 posts)
82. Correct me if I am wrong, but DUers can't possibly fully understand a surprise attack that has been
Tue Oct 10, 2023, 04:04 PM
Oct 2023

simmering for decades. We are relying on soundbites and theories of everyone from Israeli soldiers to Palestinian families, from Middle East scholars to Middle East political figures. Who is to blame? Who has injured whom? It can't possibly be covered in a post, especially when emotion cannot be separated from fact, and facts cannot be separated from fiction.

We set out to discuss and make sense of an impossible situation, and we fail. We are a collection of anonymous DUers speaking to other anonymous DUers, plus some who have just crashed the party. Opinions are valuable, but swipes at each other have no value at all. I hope the pot stirrers can stop stirring long enough to listen and try not to allow a volatile subject turn any of us against each other. We have more in common than we know, and yet today we focus on differences. How can we expect many abused, persecuted, and proud people from different cultures to behave with civility, when a group of (primarily) educated Americans with very similar politics has some of its members shouting at each other when they write.

Do you think... Fichefinder Oct 2023 #1
Premature. UN Peacekeepers would become targets right now. hlthe2b Oct 2023 #3
It won't work anyway Mosby Oct 2023 #4
A big problem is moniss Oct 2023 #44
Israel will never accept such a thing after what has happened for the past totodeinhere Oct 2023 #107
Rather thought-provoking, isn't it? hlthe2b Oct 2023 #2
One of the features of the Arab/Israeli conflict Mosby Oct 2023 #5
That is for sure moniss Oct 2023 #38
It's disgusting some out there are using this opportunity to attack Democratic Politicians they SunImp Oct 2023 #32
Nice misogyny your post got there. Nt Maru Kitteh Oct 2023 #39
What an ironic statement Disaffected Oct 2023 #64
Actually, the Karen references get old, and they are misogynistic. yardwork Oct 2023 #108
There's been a lot of hate here. It's reached the point I'm considering leaving. Marius25 Oct 2023 #6
FWIW, it's not "a lot" of the left. Happy Hoosier Oct 2023 #7
Well said. yardwork Oct 2023 #110
There's a lot to think about in your post. usonian Oct 2023 #10
Who here is supporting Hamas? IronLionZion Oct 2023 #12
+1 Very well said. Earth-shine Oct 2023 #13
No one is obamanut2012 Oct 2023 #14
+1 Celerity Oct 2023 #43
No one MorbidButterflyTat Oct 2023 #19
Didn't say people here are outright supporting them. Marius25 Oct 2023 #23
Plenty here opposed the Bush wars without supporting Saddam or Bin Laden IronLionZion Oct 2023 #24
Thank you for saying this obamanut2012 Oct 2023 #83
That's what's really been getting to me. Act_of_Reparation Oct 2023 #94
That's exactly how I found DU 20 years ago IronLionZion Oct 2023 #131
Exactly - it's disappointing and sad. nt redqueen Oct 2023 #137
Good analogy. electric_blue68 Oct 2023 #121
If Israel shouldn't be equated with Judaism, then... yardwork Oct 2023 #111
Exactly where I'm at. Xavier Breath Oct 2023 #26
I am and have always been square in this boat. I hate what Hamas did because it is PatrickforB Oct 2023 #30
I feel the same housecat Oct 2023 #58
Correct me if I am wrong, but DUers can't possibly fully understand a surprise attack that has been housecat Oct 2023 #82
What you said. Amaryllis Oct 2023 #100
I'm in this boat, too. ShazzieB Oct 2023 #87
Sounds about right to me. electric_blue68 Oct 2023 #120
Thanks. ShazzieB Oct 2023 #138
1000% nt Quixote1818 Oct 2023 #68
Its not so much specifically supporting Hamas. It is more like ignoring the atrocities totodeinhere Oct 2023 #109
Agree with you 100%. beaglelover Oct 2023 #31
I get the emotion and share it, but your constant accusation of fellow DUers of being "HATE-FILLED" hlthe2b Oct 2023 #41
Well said. Bev54 Oct 2023 #60
+1 obamanut2012 Oct 2023 #73
I do agree this mess is really getting to me so I'll probably try to take a break from some of the Marius25 Oct 2023 #84
Yikes, hadn't heard about the Sydney rally! Hideous! electric_blue68 Oct 2023 #125
Ty electric_blue68 Oct 2023 #122
Good level headed take, but many will ignore it SunImp Oct 2023 #126
Please stay. Maru Kitteh Oct 2023 #42
Stick around. Disunity is just what Hamas would love to see. wnylib Oct 2023 #69
Your frustration is completely valid Zeitghost Oct 2023 #81
Well, I will always be on Israel's side Just_Vote_Dem Oct 2023 #98
I've avoided this forum Dorian Gray Oct 2023 #130
Palestinians angrychair Oct 2023 #8
Pawns of whom? boston bean Oct 2023 #28
Pawns of many different moniss Oct 2023 #33
Name them. boston bean Oct 2023 #37
The US moniss Oct 2023 #50
And no mention of Hamas. Oooooookkkkkkaaaaaayyyyyy boston bean Oct 2023 #61
Did you not get the etc. etc.? moniss Oct 2023 #62
I got that you left off the numero uno. boston bean Oct 2023 #66
This is similar to what others have posted moniss Oct 2023 #76
I read what was not there, you are right about that. boston bean Oct 2023 #77
Considering that at the past few days the deliberate heneious atrocity that Hamas did; that.. electric_blue68 Oct 2023 #144
Oh my well then there must moniss Oct 2023 #146
The question to ask here is who profits in money from keeping these PatrickforB Oct 2023 #34
Oh wow. No mention of HAMAS. Very telling. boston bean Oct 2023 #36
Classic conspiracy stuff Mosby Oct 2023 #49
Well, they seem to be fanatics who think to benefit by starting a sort of Mansonesque PatrickforB Oct 2023 #79
Um, if you read his earlier post (will quote below) he thoroughly condems Hamas.... electric_blue68 Oct 2023 #124
You're missing a couple key players Zeitghost Oct 2023 #88
So it's all about mone? Progressive dog Oct 2023 #103
No, I'm motivated by genuine change at the policy level that will ensure PatrickforB Oct 2023 #117
What policies would assure that evryone has enough? Progressive dog Oct 2023 #143
Pray tell... Abolishinist Oct 2023 #127
Capitalism has a lot to do with it. This morning on MSNBC, they had a person on PatrickforB Oct 2023 #132
... 2naSalit Oct 2023 #9
On another thread one person replied to another person that they had "lost their humanity ". Boomerproud Oct 2023 #11
Humanity CloudWatcher Oct 2023 #15
I've been staying in the Lounge. I refuse to be a part sinkingfeeling Oct 2023 #16
Yep. AnnaLee Oct 2023 #22
Ditto. stage left Oct 2023 #35
War enriches the wealthy. Lunabell Oct 2023 #17
What happened in Israel is not war Mysterian Oct 2023 #18
Isn't that why Palestine and Israel are where they are? Jay25 Oct 2023 #78
Before Hamas got into the picture, wnylib Oct 2023 #102
"A large number arrived after the European Holocaust, Jay25 Oct 2023 #135
I am the odd out. KentuckyWoman Oct 2023 #20
I blame Cheeto for this calamity peppertree Oct 2023 #21
without any foundation or shread of evidence ... stopdiggin Oct 2023 #51
It would have been limited if Israel had soldiers at the Gaza border womanofthehills Oct 2023 #91
That as well, yes. peppertree Oct 2023 #93
Someone please point out the many times that Israel offered a Two State solution. TeamProg Oct 2023 #25
Palestinians have always refused to negotiate with Israel. former9thward Oct 2023 #53
That's not what jimmy carter says questionseverything Oct 2023 #75
Jimmy Carter has been a great former president. former9thward Oct 2023 #86
I will accept jimmy carter's thoughts questionseverything Oct 2023 #90
I named names. former9thward Oct 2023 #92
Oslo accords Mossfern Oct 2023 #57
This was the last, best, chance we had. BlueCheeseAgain Oct 2023 #89
I was shocked that a majority of Palestinians DO NOT WANT a Two State solution!! TeamProg Oct 2023 #95
They would have to acknowledge mcar Oct 2023 #139
Yes I realize that, but still seems like the obvious conclusion/solution. TeamProg Oct 2023 #140
Not to be snarky here but MOMFUDSKI Oct 2023 #27
Like you I have tried moniss Oct 2023 #29
I've been making the same point on DU. This "fuse" wasn't just lit." It is a conflict that has been Martin68 Oct 2023 #40
1+ SunImp Oct 2023 #47
This needed to be said and I think is what many here are also feeling. yonder Oct 2023 #45
DU? Hell, it's impacted my home life. maxsolomon Oct 2023 #46
My husband and I have had similar discussions. TNNurse Oct 2023 #65
I would laugh except it's so f'ing sad. Biophilic Oct 2023 #48
Agreed. I have not blocked this many toxic people since sybylla Oct 2023 #52
John Gabriel's Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory Kennah Oct 2023 #54
+1. If you know, you know. N/T Jedi Guy Oct 2023 #104
We largely ignore the civil wars of smaller nations... hunter Oct 2023 #55
This is why Israel / Palestinian discussions are normally banned here. They always get this way Quixote1818 Oct 2023 #56
There's been way too much ill will. cab67 Oct 2023 #59
Thank you for this post MustLoveBeagles Oct 2023 #80
I stay out of taking sides as it's fruitless. Aussie105 Oct 2023 #63
Bingo! Me too! nt Quixote1818 Oct 2023 #67
Thank you so much for this thoughtful post Hekate Oct 2023 #70
I have a choice to make: be hostile or compromise my integrity. Beastly Boy Oct 2023 #71
Maybe I'm just naive jgmiller Oct 2023 #72
Cyrano, do you for some reason expect everybody on DU to hold only one opinion? Firestorm49 Oct 2023 #74
The OP did not say what you are saying he said obamanut2012 Oct 2023 #85
I agree. Haggard Celine Oct 2023 #99
Recommended. H2O Man Oct 2023 #96
The issue has always fractured DU. Posting in GD is usually prohibited Kaleva Oct 2023 #97
The newsworthy nature of the the Hamas attack seems to allow contextual posts. brooklynite Oct 2023 #114
True but regular debates about the issue is usually prohibited in GD Kaleva Oct 2023 #145
This Is Who We Are In 2023 tdot_steel Oct 2023 #101
I feel overwhelmed and heartbroken. yardwork Oct 2023 #105
Yes. Overwhelmed locally and globally. yonder Oct 2023 #119
What do you think of the wholesale murder of innocent Jewish people carried out totodeinhere Oct 2023 #106
I insist on ForgedCrank Oct 2023 #112
I find them ALL digusting Skittles Oct 2023 #113
Ignore is a wonderful tool. roamer65 Oct 2023 #115
Essential, imho. Duncan Grant Oct 2023 #141
I'm kind of in the ignorant category ecstatic Oct 2023 #116
Hamas NowISeetheLight Oct 2023 #118
War is the result of failed diplomacy. Xolodno Oct 2023 #123
No, ugliness here has been much much much worse. betsuni Oct 2023 #128
Just like old times tbh jfz9580m Oct 2023 #129
Good post. housecat Oct 2023 #133
This message was self-deleted by its author housecat Oct 2023 #134
This crap will continue to happen as long as fundamentalist religious nuts continue to condition SouthernDem4ever Oct 2023 #136
From what I can see from the modern history of the area anamnua Oct 2023 #142
I put a few people on ignore for the duration pecosbob Oct 2023 #147
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