General Discussion

Chainfire

(17,757 posts)

49. I suggest that you read what I said, not what you wish that I had said.

Tue Nov 14, 2023, 11:25 AM

Nov 2023

My claim was inferring that neither side can be trusted, so don't try to twist it into something it isn't. I guess you would like to bait me into defending Hamas. That is not going to happen, I believe that they are a terrorist organization and I despise them for their murderous raid in October. There was no excuse for that. But I also believe that there is blame on both sides, and I do not like the way that Israel is conducting this war as I believe that it has moved from a defensive action to a war of aggression. So, perhaps not "supporting" either side, not having a flag to wave, perhaps I see some things differently than others.

In any case, I believe that a sufficient number of innocent people have died and it needs to stop now.

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Brenda Avalon Sparks

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Israel found an intact hamas facility under a hospital. [View all] ExciteBike66 Nov 2023 OP

Moral limitations? Pots and kettles... Chainfire Nov 2023 #1

Easy solution to stop all this in a heartbeat. CincyDem Nov 2023 #2

Why do people so conveniently Mossfern Nov 2023 #5

Because it doesn't fit with the "Israel/Jews are evil" narrative. n/t. CincyDem Nov 2023 #6

Sadly this Calculating Nov 2023 #11

funny thing enid602 Nov 2023 #66

Sometimes the loser is in that position for a reason Calculating Nov 2023 #74

Cruel enid602 Nov 2023 #149

I also sympathize with the Israeli hostages and their families. yardwork Nov 2023 #148

Dehumanization enid602 Nov 2023 #150

Sorry, but I strongly disagree. yardwork Nov 2023 #151

Ikr? Sugarcoated Nov 2023 #155

That kind of statment may be loyal to the cause, but it lacks validity as a logical argument. Chainfire Nov 2023 #33

I am loyal to what you call "the cause". CincyDem Nov 2023 #50

however, the lives of palestinians who had nothing to do with hamas DBoon Nov 2023 #64

Indefinitely disposable...absolutely not but who controls that? CincyDem Nov 2023 #69

Then Israel should man up and get the leaders in questionseverything Nov 2023 #126

Give 'em time. Remember Munich. n/t CincyDem Nov 2023 #127

I'd love to see that JustAnotherGen Nov 2023 #138

This isn't what I read JustAnotherGen Nov 2023 #137

Are the 11000 casualties number accurate? manicdem Nov 2023 #99

Are all of the dead children at fault too? There will be thousands of them. Chainfire Nov 2023 #115

Estimates manicdem Nov 2023 #153

So inthewind21 Nov 2023 #156

I said it in the same sentance manicdem Nov 2023 #159

No inthewind21 Nov 2023 #160

And every one of those RubyRose Nov 2023 #157

So one massacre deserves a reply in kind, only multiplied by ten? (and growing) Is that what justice looks like to you? Chainfire Nov 2023 #158

Hamas says that they will release the hostages when the killing stops and Israel has rejected the offer. Chainfire Nov 2023 #8

Doesn't work that way Mossfern Nov 2023 #10

You and I had a discussion in another thread. BlueCheeseAgain Nov 2023 #44

I suggest that you read what I said, not what you wish that I had said. Chainfire Nov 2023 #49

If I misunderstood, I apologize. BlueCheeseAgain Nov 2023 #54

All I can say to that is... CincyDem Nov 2023 #51

This message was self-deleted by its author Avalon Sparks Nov 2023 #142

You mean the killing that THEY started when they broke the CEASE FIRE on Oct 7th........you mean GuppyGal Nov 2023 #52

Yes, what they did was an atrocity, it was evil and unforgiveable. But it does not excuse payment in kind with Chainfire Nov 2023 #55

And it can stop. Hamas simply needs to release the hostages pinkstarburst Nov 2023 #76

And you're going to take their word for it? GaYellowDawg Nov 2023 #59

So I guess your solution is to destroy Hamas if it means killing every living Palestinian in the process. Chainfire Nov 2023 #62

I agree with you: yagotme Nov 2023 #67

Not necessarily. Netanyahu has said he will obliterate Hamas. Lonestarblue Nov 2023 #113

Releasing hostages is just a parcel of what Hamas should do. yagotme Nov 2023 #122

What were you saying in this thread about ... BlueCheeseAgain Nov 2023 #80

Except they're not killing every Palestinian in the process ...not even close GuppyGal Nov 2023 #128

Are you for real? pinkstarburst Nov 2023 #75

And Hamas could surrender mcar Nov 2023 #37

The hostages are probably dead. Omnipresent Nov 2023 #106

So it's Israel's fault if Hamas kills the hostages AZSkiffyGeek Nov 2023 #107

Did i blame the victims, though? Omnipresent Nov 2023 #144

Not sure thats enough. Mountainguy Nov 2023 #129

My guess is that moral high ground is not held by Hamas. Beastly Boy Nov 2023 #3

Do you think that Israel is? Chainfire Nov 2023 #7

Moral high ground is simply a comparative phrase between two choices. CincyDem Nov 2023 #12

That is not what I said, and that is not what I meant. Chainfire Nov 2023 #16

And who adjudicates? CincyDem Nov 2023 #22

History will adjudicate. My personal judgement is that there is sin on both sides. Chainfire Nov 2023 #24

This is a statement that speculates on futurre moral judgements Beastly Boy Nov 2023 #42

What a revolting false equivalence. GuppyGal Nov 2023 #53

You should see their revisionist views on World War II BannonsLiver Nov 2023 #87

Hitler warned allies of hospital attacks! The Allies committed war crimes! AZSkiffyGeek Nov 2023 #105

I don't know of anyone who believes that. Chainfire Nov 2023 #112

I do. BannonsLiver Nov 2023 #116

Well, now I know someone who believes it. Chainfire Nov 2023 #117

OK. You have chosen justice. yagotme Nov 2023 #27

There was no justice in the Hamas attack, there is no justice in the deaths of thousands of Palestinian children. Chainfire Nov 2023 #45

As it has been said, probably a hundred times or more here, yagotme Nov 2023 #47

You can't inthewind21 Nov 2023 #96

The poster stated they chose justice. yagotme Nov 2023 #97

I'm inthewind21 Nov 2023 #100

Perhaps you should tell this to the other poster: yagotme Nov 2023 #102

Justice, but the hostages don't need to be released AZSkiffyGeek Nov 2023 #31

You choose child like logic for complex problems most of the time BannonsLiver Nov 2023 #93

now you're inthewind21 Nov 2023 #86

That remains to be seen. Beastly Boy Nov 2023 #13

War is immoral. The only issue to be decided is whether there are war crimes being committed by either or both sides. Chainfire Nov 2023 #17

That's exactly what I was driving at. The issue of moral grounds is up to interpretation. Beastly Boy Nov 2023 #25

So the Civil War or the fight against Nazi Germany was immoral? EX500rider Nov 2023 #56

There is no such thing as a moral war. Chainfire Nov 2023 #60

I've read that the Nazis were kind enough to warn hospitals so apparently they're better than Israel now AZSkiffyGeek Nov 2023 #108

In an imperfect world and in this case? YES! NT Happy Hoosier Nov 2023 #110

It's not held by Israel eitther Chautauquas Nov 2023 #77

So, Israel is finding children, yagotme Nov 2023 #79

Did I say that? Chautauquas Nov 2023 #124

Kinda close. Some of the atrocities Hamas committed were killing children as I described. yagotme Nov 2023 #125

Since we are now into the ridiculous terrotory of comparing deaths to deaths, Beastly Boy Nov 2023 #83

I'm saying neither of them can legitimately claim the higher ground Chautauquas Nov 2023 #123

That's where you are wrong. Beastly Boy Nov 2023 #135

Israel doesn't intentionally endanger the lives of civilians? Chautauquas Nov 2023 #146

That's rigth. Israel doesn't intentionally target civilians. Beastly Boy Nov 2023 #147

The VERY LEAST you could say is one side is bad and the other is worse but in your eyes they are both the GuppyGal Nov 2023 #132

You're looking at the effect calguy Nov 2023 #30

The people NOT putting military facilities under a hospital... NT Happy Hoosier Nov 2023 #109

Do you have a link? AloeVera Nov 2023 #4

I would like to see a link also. With a video or pictures. Autumn Nov 2023 #9

Here you go RainWalker Nov 2023 #14

Thanks for the video. Very interesting. Autumn Nov 2023 #20

You're welcome RainWalker Nov 2023 #21

Thank you. AloeVera Nov 2023 #35

''the tunnel they claim to be a Hamas tunnel is actually an electrical wire assembly point'' Donkees Nov 2023 #15

That explains it. I thought it was an elevator shaft. Thanks for that. Autumn Nov 2023 #18

This message was self-deleted by its author Autumn Nov 2023 #19

The interview with the ABC reporter is awkward RainWalker Nov 2023 #23

I guess because we here in America are fed daily doses of bullshit and propaganda it has become Autumn Nov 2023 #26

Absolutely so RainWalker Nov 2023 #28

There are various utility maintenance tunnels in the US ... Donkees Nov 2023 #36

The chair against the wall thing in that video was, as the kids say, cringey AF obamanut2012 Nov 2023 #32

Yeah, that and the weapons display. Autumn Nov 2023 #39

Yup, some rusty guns laying around obamanut2012 Nov 2023 #82

Ya that was lol RainWalker Nov 2023 #40

When the IDF guy started yelling "Would we have gone through all this to bring you here?" Prairie Gates Nov 2023 #38

And the Hamas guard names which translate to the days of the week, the deadly motorcycle Nanjeanne Nov 2023 #34

That calendar was hilarious RainWalker Nov 2023 #41

Yeah, but intrepidity Nov 2023 #103

I would laugh but I'd feel ashamed. AloeVera Nov 2023 #43

Here's the video Nanjeanne Nov 2023 #46

Please clarify. BlueCheeseAgain Nov 2023 #81

Don't know. I do know the list of Hamas guards he found Nanjeanne Nov 2023 #88

Grenades/arms in a row can easily be explained. yagotme Nov 2023 #91

I mean, it's not uncommon to leave things behind when retreating or fleeing. BlueCheeseAgain Nov 2023 #92

The calendar thing and days of the week is a bit embarrassing, for sure BlueCheeseAgain Nov 2023 #95

That is not why Al-Aqsa Flood and October 7 are there -- it is obvious why there are there obamanut2012 Nov 2023 #119

I'm confused by your message. BlueCheeseAgain Nov 2023 #120

And highly coincidental that the calendar begins 10/7? intrepidity Nov 2023 #104

No, not to those of us with good critical thinking skills obamanut2012 Nov 2023 #118

You said in your response that you were done being attacked. BlueCheeseAgain Nov 2023 #121

Actually you do know....you said it "Looks like a break room in a hospital." GuppyGal Nov 2023 #130

In the full video showing couches, a toilet and curtains it did. A room in the basement where people would Nanjeanne Nov 2023 #136

Hamas facilities beneath hospitals, next to schools, mosques, and apartment complexes Geezoh Nov 2023 #29

Palestinians could have made Gaza into world class place calguy Nov 2023 #48

Really? With limited access to employment and education. No ability to leave Gaza unless Israel gives them Nanjeanne Nov 2023 #57

Yeah, it's an open air prison. Mosby Nov 2023 #61

OMG. Quick - let's get there for our next vacation. Nanjeanne Nov 2023 #72

And Manazanar had movies and beauty parlors and Little League teams, but it was still a prison obamanut2012 Nov 2023 #89

Well, maybe with all the money Hamas leaders STOLE from the Palestinians yagotme Nov 2023 #63

Yeah maybe. Nanjeanne Nov 2023 #71

They have had billions given to them without a single request of them. calguy Nov 2023 #140

Where the money comes from, where the money goes. Geezoh Nov 2023 #70

Oh the irony inthewind21 Nov 2023 #98

very faulty claim Celerity Nov 2023 #141

The world is getting played by Hamas of EPIC proportions GuppyGal Nov 2023 #131

And it's also revealing a ton of latent anti-semitism Just_Vote_Dem Nov 2023 #143

Did they? redqueen Nov 2023 #58

I hear people say there is a difference between hamsas and the Palestinian people but.... FlyingPiggy Nov 2023 #65

The difference is, Hamas has the guns, the civilians don't. nt yagotme Nov 2023 #68

Hamas is oppressing Palestinians Sympthsical Nov 2023 #73

Body count. Geezoh Nov 2023 #84

Welcome to the conversation... CincyDem Nov 2023 #90

Thanks... Geezoh Nov 2023 #161

I cannot believe you wrote this and think it's okay obamanut2012 Nov 2023 #94

I see it along the lines of Hillary's "Basket of Deplorables" AZSkiffyGeek Nov 2023 #111

People have to live with the government that they have. If you are saying that all Palestinians are terrorists you Chainfire Nov 2023 #114

The hostages need to be returned NOW GuppyGal Nov 2023 #134

Hamas absolutely enjoys plenty of support from everything that I have read and that goes across all GuppyGal Nov 2023 #133

Even Worse Geezoh Nov 2023 #162

Do you have a link? JohnSJ Nov 2023 #78

I think you will need a verification from Hamas for this to be credible to some. nt LexVegas Nov 2023 #85

Sadly true. yardwork Nov 2023 #152

KnR Maru Kitteh Nov 2023 #101

"IF" Hamas will jus abandon its underground facilities. That is a really big IF. Bev54 Nov 2023 #139

That is true. Captain Stern Nov 2023 #145

This is exactly right Mountainguy Nov 2023 #154