General Discussion

Mountainguy

(2,145 posts)

154. This is exactly right

Thu Nov 16, 2023, 03:20 AM

Nov 2023

Hamas has embedded themselves into the population to use them as shields.

After Oct. 7th a few things because clear.
1: Hamas will brutally attack Israel if given a chance.
2: Israel can't let Hamas remain as a functioning entity within their borders.
3: Israel can't continue to let Gaza operate outside of their authority.

Israel is going to wage war on Hamas until they are no longer a functional group and they are going to place boots on the ground inside of the territory to police it after the war is over.

All of this together means that Palestinian civilian's are going to be in the line of fire as Israel targets Hamas. The only was Israel can prevent civilian deaths is to not target Hamas, which means more Israelis will die.

Pretty terrible situation, but it is the situation. Israel doesn't have any real choice but to continue targeting Hamas where they are. Hamas, on the other hand, could choose to save Palestinians by surrendering.

Hamas has the power to end the conflict today. Why is nobody protesting them to do so?

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Israel found an intact hamas facility under a hospital. [View all] ExciteBike66 Nov 2023 OP

Moral limitations? Pots and kettles... Chainfire Nov 2023 #1

Easy solution to stop all this in a heartbeat. CincyDem Nov 2023 #2

Why do people so conveniently Mossfern Nov 2023 #5

Because it doesn't fit with the "Israel/Jews are evil" narrative. n/t. CincyDem Nov 2023 #6

Sadly this Calculating Nov 2023 #11

funny thing enid602 Nov 2023 #66

Sometimes the loser is in that position for a reason Calculating Nov 2023 #74

Cruel enid602 Nov 2023 #149

I also sympathize with the Israeli hostages and their families. yardwork Nov 2023 #148

Dehumanization enid602 Nov 2023 #150

Sorry, but I strongly disagree. yardwork Nov 2023 #151

Ikr? Sugarcoated Nov 2023 #155

That kind of statment may be loyal to the cause, but it lacks validity as a logical argument. Chainfire Nov 2023 #33

I am loyal to what you call "the cause". CincyDem Nov 2023 #50

however, the lives of palestinians who had nothing to do with hamas DBoon Nov 2023 #64

Indefinitely disposable...absolutely not but who controls that? CincyDem Nov 2023 #69

Then Israel should man up and get the leaders in questionseverything Nov 2023 #126

Give 'em time. Remember Munich. n/t CincyDem Nov 2023 #127

I'd love to see that JustAnotherGen Nov 2023 #138

This isn't what I read JustAnotherGen Nov 2023 #137

Are the 11000 casualties number accurate? manicdem Nov 2023 #99

Are all of the dead children at fault too? There will be thousands of them. Chainfire Nov 2023 #115

Estimates manicdem Nov 2023 #153

So inthewind21 Nov 2023 #156

I said it in the same sentance manicdem Nov 2023 #159

No inthewind21 Nov 2023 #160

And every one of those RubyRose Nov 2023 #157

So one massacre deserves a reply in kind, only multiplied by ten? (and growing) Is that what justice looks like to you? Chainfire Nov 2023 #158

Hamas says that they will release the hostages when the killing stops and Israel has rejected the offer. Chainfire Nov 2023 #8

Doesn't work that way Mossfern Nov 2023 #10

You and I had a discussion in another thread. BlueCheeseAgain Nov 2023 #44

I suggest that you read what I said, not what you wish that I had said. Chainfire Nov 2023 #49

If I misunderstood, I apologize. BlueCheeseAgain Nov 2023 #54

All I can say to that is... CincyDem Nov 2023 #51

This message was self-deleted by its author Avalon Sparks Nov 2023 #142

You mean the killing that THEY started when they broke the CEASE FIRE on Oct 7th........you mean GuppyGal Nov 2023 #52

Yes, what they did was an atrocity, it was evil and unforgiveable. But it does not excuse payment in kind with Chainfire Nov 2023 #55

And it can stop. Hamas simply needs to release the hostages pinkstarburst Nov 2023 #76

And you're going to take their word for it? GaYellowDawg Nov 2023 #59

So I guess your solution is to destroy Hamas if it means killing every living Palestinian in the process. Chainfire Nov 2023 #62

I agree with you: yagotme Nov 2023 #67

Not necessarily. Netanyahu has said he will obliterate Hamas. Lonestarblue Nov 2023 #113

Releasing hostages is just a parcel of what Hamas should do. yagotme Nov 2023 #122

What were you saying in this thread about ... BlueCheeseAgain Nov 2023 #80

Except they're not killing every Palestinian in the process ...not even close GuppyGal Nov 2023 #128

Are you for real? pinkstarburst Nov 2023 #75

And Hamas could surrender mcar Nov 2023 #37

The hostages are probably dead. Omnipresent Nov 2023 #106

So it's Israel's fault if Hamas kills the hostages AZSkiffyGeek Nov 2023 #107

Did i blame the victims, though? Omnipresent Nov 2023 #144

Not sure thats enough. Mountainguy Nov 2023 #129

My guess is that moral high ground is not held by Hamas. Beastly Boy Nov 2023 #3

Do you think that Israel is? Chainfire Nov 2023 #7

Moral high ground is simply a comparative phrase between two choices. CincyDem Nov 2023 #12

That is not what I said, and that is not what I meant. Chainfire Nov 2023 #16

And who adjudicates? CincyDem Nov 2023 #22

History will adjudicate. My personal judgement is that there is sin on both sides. Chainfire Nov 2023 #24

This is a statement that speculates on futurre moral judgements Beastly Boy Nov 2023 #42

What a revolting false equivalence. GuppyGal Nov 2023 #53

You should see their revisionist views on World War II BannonsLiver Nov 2023 #87

Hitler warned allies of hospital attacks! The Allies committed war crimes! AZSkiffyGeek Nov 2023 #105

I don't know of anyone who believes that. Chainfire Nov 2023 #112

I do. BannonsLiver Nov 2023 #116

Well, now I know someone who believes it. Chainfire Nov 2023 #117

OK. You have chosen justice. yagotme Nov 2023 #27

There was no justice in the Hamas attack, there is no justice in the deaths of thousands of Palestinian children. Chainfire Nov 2023 #45

As it has been said, probably a hundred times or more here, yagotme Nov 2023 #47

You can't inthewind21 Nov 2023 #96

The poster stated they chose justice. yagotme Nov 2023 #97

I'm inthewind21 Nov 2023 #100

Perhaps you should tell this to the other poster: yagotme Nov 2023 #102

Justice, but the hostages don't need to be released AZSkiffyGeek Nov 2023 #31

You choose child like logic for complex problems most of the time BannonsLiver Nov 2023 #93

now you're inthewind21 Nov 2023 #86

That remains to be seen. Beastly Boy Nov 2023 #13

War is immoral. The only issue to be decided is whether there are war crimes being committed by either or both sides. Chainfire Nov 2023 #17

That's exactly what I was driving at. The issue of moral grounds is up to interpretation. Beastly Boy Nov 2023 #25

So the Civil War or the fight against Nazi Germany was immoral? EX500rider Nov 2023 #56

There is no such thing as a moral war. Chainfire Nov 2023 #60

I've read that the Nazis were kind enough to warn hospitals so apparently they're better than Israel now AZSkiffyGeek Nov 2023 #108

In an imperfect world and in this case? YES! NT Happy Hoosier Nov 2023 #110

It's not held by Israel eitther Chautauquas Nov 2023 #77

So, Israel is finding children, yagotme Nov 2023 #79

Did I say that? Chautauquas Nov 2023 #124

Kinda close. Some of the atrocities Hamas committed were killing children as I described. yagotme Nov 2023 #125

Since we are now into the ridiculous terrotory of comparing deaths to deaths, Beastly Boy Nov 2023 #83

I'm saying neither of them can legitimately claim the higher ground Chautauquas Nov 2023 #123

That's where you are wrong. Beastly Boy Nov 2023 #135

Israel doesn't intentionally endanger the lives of civilians? Chautauquas Nov 2023 #146

That's rigth. Israel doesn't intentionally target civilians. Beastly Boy Nov 2023 #147

The VERY LEAST you could say is one side is bad and the other is worse but in your eyes they are both the GuppyGal Nov 2023 #132

You're looking at the effect calguy Nov 2023 #30

The people NOT putting military facilities under a hospital... NT Happy Hoosier Nov 2023 #109

Do you have a link? AloeVera Nov 2023 #4

I would like to see a link also. With a video or pictures. Autumn Nov 2023 #9

Here you go RainWalker Nov 2023 #14

Thanks for the video. Very interesting. Autumn Nov 2023 #20

You're welcome RainWalker Nov 2023 #21

Thank you. AloeVera Nov 2023 #35

''the tunnel they claim to be a Hamas tunnel is actually an electrical wire assembly point'' Donkees Nov 2023 #15

That explains it. I thought it was an elevator shaft. Thanks for that. Autumn Nov 2023 #18

This message was self-deleted by its author Autumn Nov 2023 #19

The interview with the ABC reporter is awkward RainWalker Nov 2023 #23

I guess because we here in America are fed daily doses of bullshit and propaganda it has become Autumn Nov 2023 #26

Absolutely so RainWalker Nov 2023 #28

There are various utility maintenance tunnels in the US ... Donkees Nov 2023 #36

The chair against the wall thing in that video was, as the kids say, cringey AF obamanut2012 Nov 2023 #32

Yeah, that and the weapons display. Autumn Nov 2023 #39

Yup, some rusty guns laying around obamanut2012 Nov 2023 #82

Ya that was lol RainWalker Nov 2023 #40

When the IDF guy started yelling "Would we have gone through all this to bring you here?" Prairie Gates Nov 2023 #38

And the Hamas guard names which translate to the days of the week, the deadly motorcycle Nanjeanne Nov 2023 #34

That calendar was hilarious RainWalker Nov 2023 #41

Yeah, but intrepidity Nov 2023 #103

I would laugh but I'd feel ashamed. AloeVera Nov 2023 #43

Here's the video Nanjeanne Nov 2023 #46

Please clarify. BlueCheeseAgain Nov 2023 #81

Don't know. I do know the list of Hamas guards he found Nanjeanne Nov 2023 #88

Grenades/arms in a row can easily be explained. yagotme Nov 2023 #91

I mean, it's not uncommon to leave things behind when retreating or fleeing. BlueCheeseAgain Nov 2023 #92

The calendar thing and days of the week is a bit embarrassing, for sure BlueCheeseAgain Nov 2023 #95

That is not why Al-Aqsa Flood and October 7 are there -- it is obvious why there are there obamanut2012 Nov 2023 #119

I'm confused by your message. BlueCheeseAgain Nov 2023 #120

And highly coincidental that the calendar begins 10/7? intrepidity Nov 2023 #104

No, not to those of us with good critical thinking skills obamanut2012 Nov 2023 #118

You said in your response that you were done being attacked. BlueCheeseAgain Nov 2023 #121

Actually you do know....you said it "Looks like a break room in a hospital." GuppyGal Nov 2023 #130

In the full video showing couches, a toilet and curtains it did. A room in the basement where people would Nanjeanne Nov 2023 #136

Hamas facilities beneath hospitals, next to schools, mosques, and apartment complexes Geezoh Nov 2023 #29

Palestinians could have made Gaza into world class place calguy Nov 2023 #48

Really? With limited access to employment and education. No ability to leave Gaza unless Israel gives them Nanjeanne Nov 2023 #57

Yeah, it's an open air prison. Mosby Nov 2023 #61

OMG. Quick - let's get there for our next vacation. Nanjeanne Nov 2023 #72

And Manazanar had movies and beauty parlors and Little League teams, but it was still a prison obamanut2012 Nov 2023 #89

Well, maybe with all the money Hamas leaders STOLE from the Palestinians yagotme Nov 2023 #63

Yeah maybe. Nanjeanne Nov 2023 #71

They have had billions given to them without a single request of them. calguy Nov 2023 #140

Where the money comes from, where the money goes. Geezoh Nov 2023 #70

Oh the irony inthewind21 Nov 2023 #98

very faulty claim Celerity Nov 2023 #141

The world is getting played by Hamas of EPIC proportions GuppyGal Nov 2023 #131

And it's also revealing a ton of latent anti-semitism Just_Vote_Dem Nov 2023 #143

Did they? redqueen Nov 2023 #58

I hear people say there is a difference between hamsas and the Palestinian people but.... FlyingPiggy Nov 2023 #65

The difference is, Hamas has the guns, the civilians don't. nt yagotme Nov 2023 #68

Hamas is oppressing Palestinians Sympthsical Nov 2023 #73

Body count. Geezoh Nov 2023 #84

Welcome to the conversation... CincyDem Nov 2023 #90

Thanks... Geezoh Nov 2023 #161

I cannot believe you wrote this and think it's okay obamanut2012 Nov 2023 #94

I see it along the lines of Hillary's "Basket of Deplorables" AZSkiffyGeek Nov 2023 #111

People have to live with the government that they have. If you are saying that all Palestinians are terrorists you Chainfire Nov 2023 #114

The hostages need to be returned NOW GuppyGal Nov 2023 #134

Hamas absolutely enjoys plenty of support from everything that I have read and that goes across all GuppyGal Nov 2023 #133

Even Worse Geezoh Nov 2023 #162

Do you have a link? JohnSJ Nov 2023 #78

I think you will need a verification from Hamas for this to be credible to some. nt LexVegas Nov 2023 #85

Sadly true. yardwork Nov 2023 #152

KnR Maru Kitteh Nov 2023 #101

"IF" Hamas will jus abandon its underground facilities. That is a really big IF. Bev54 Nov 2023 #139

That is true. Captain Stern Nov 2023 #145

This is exactly right Mountainguy Nov 2023 #154