General Discussion

pnwmom

(110,261 posts)

70. "What topics should be most important, today? I can assure you that calculus isn't it."

Reply to swong19104 (Reply #50)

Sat Nov 25, 2023, 08:10 PM

Nov 2023

So you've taught math at the high school level. If you had ever taught engineering to college students, you'd understand the importance of the precalculus-calculus sequence to many fields.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

1 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

redqueen

113 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

SF: Algebra is officially on The City's March ballot [View all] RandySF Nov 2023 OP

It makes no sense. Wouldn't you want it earlier so those with difficulties JI7 Nov 2023 #1

Their stupid theory is that if you held everyone back, then everyone would be even in 9th. pnwmom Nov 2023 #3

Math (and all other academic courses) shouldn't be "challenging" swong19104 Nov 2023 #5

Life is full of challenges, and school is one place where kids learn to take them on. Sports is another. pnwmom Nov 2023 #6

Bravo. Awesome and elaborate post. triron Nov 2023 #19

Thank you, triron. It touched a nerve. pnwmom Nov 2023 #22

You do realize that not everybody wants to be an engineer swong19104 Nov 2023 #63

You do realize that not every high school student knows what career they might eventually want, right? pnwmom Nov 2023 #82

Then they wouldn't take math classes MichMan Nov 2023 #85

Math and all academic courses SHOULD be challenging Bernardo de La Paz Nov 2023 #10

Could Not Disagree More ProfessorGAC Nov 2023 #14

I think you hit the nail on the head swong19104 Nov 2023 #60

A Bit Too Radical An Idea For Me ProfessorGAC Nov 2023 #64

Hey, I was just like you -- even more, when I was teaching swong19104 Nov 2023 #71

Reads Like ProfessorGAC Nov 2023 #72

Do you calibrate your tests? swong19104 Nov 2023 #74

Do you think drivers tests are of no value? pnwmom Nov 2023 #83

This is ridiculous. mathematic Nov 2023 #20

I think you misread what I was saying swong19104 Nov 2023 #59

1. Tests are imperfect, but they're not useless. We don't want lifeguards to guard a pool pnwmom Nov 2023 #87

Do you feel that way about sports and athletics? Should the kids with natural talent... Hekate Nov 2023 #25

First, I'm not suggesting anything about holding anyone back swong19104 Nov 2023 #52

Patty-cake Hekate Nov 2023 #55

I saw nothing in the OP about requiring students to take a progression of math courses until graduation. MichMan Nov 2023 #62

Let's use the sports analogy here swong19104 Nov 2023 #67

"What is the math analogy to cardio? To strengthening? To coordination? Then let's teach that instead." pnwmom Nov 2023 #75

Not challenging? So aim towards the lowest common denominator? tinrobot Nov 2023 #26

I take it that you don't know much about math, or academics or pedagogy swong19104 Nov 2023 #50

You sure make a lot of assumptions tinrobot Nov 2023 #66

Post removed Post removed Nov 2023 #68

"What topics should be most important, today? I can assure you that calculus isn't it." pnwmom Nov 2023 #70

I taught math at high school and college level swong19104 Nov 2023 #73

The leadership of U-Cal Berkeley College of Engineering strongly opposed the proposal pushed pnwmom Nov 2023 #86

Wow. Simple harmonic motion? Heat flow? Exponential decay? muriel_volestrangler Nov 2023 #105

The "old" math Mossfern Nov 2023 #27

The New Math teaches logical thinking and requires proofs for geometry and trigonometry. . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Nov 2023 #32

There has been more than one "new math" Mossfern Nov 2023 #35

Despite being somewhat math-centric, I don't know much about New New Math Bernardo de La Paz Nov 2023 #44

(mistakenly replied to myself) Bernardo de La Paz Nov 2023 #57

I have positive associations with the New Math, though I only had it in elementary school pnwmom Nov 2023 #37

That's new math. swong19104 Nov 2023 #48

You still have to do proofs in geometry and Trig. NT Happy Hoosier Nov 2023 #99

That was my favorite part! Mossfern Nov 2023 #110

As someone with two degrees in math, and 11 years experience as a math teacher - Ms. Toad Nov 2023 #76

Any data to back up your claim that all academic courses should pose no challenge to a student? ThreeNoSeep Nov 2023 #109

It's that "equity" word Sympthsical Nov 2023 #9

Equity does NOT mean dumbing down Bernardo de La Paz Nov 2023 #11

No, that is not how it is applied Sympthsical Nov 2023 #16

Just how is dropping 8th grade Algebra courses from the curriculum raising up those who are left behind? MichMan Nov 2023 #53

It's not. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Nov 2023 #54

The idea is that if they dropped Algebra from 8th grade, pnwmom Nov 2023 #88

But in both Texas and Wisconsin, algebra is freshman, eighth was honors class. 30 years apart LeftInTX Nov 2023 #29

Exactly.... that's how it worked for me. Happy Hoosier Nov 2023 #98

Similar expereince in the early 90's..... TheRealNorth Nov 2023 #107

Best engineering schools want calculus in high school lostnfound Nov 2023 #2

True, but they also want the non-calculus New Math concepts as foundations. . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Nov 2023 #15

I only had New Math in elementary school, but the parts that stuck with me pnwmom Nov 2023 #34

My recommendation swong19104 Nov 2023 #4

If everyone followed your advice, then out of state students would be needed to fill pnwmom Nov 2023 #7

Large numbers of foreign students would also be needed. We'd be training the best & brightest Hekate Nov 2023 #28

Right --- you don't want to handicap CA's own students by misleading them into thinking pnwmom Nov 2023 #33

Absolutely wrong swong19104 Nov 2023 #47

Engineering is a much larger field than computer engineering. Your experience pnwmom Nov 2023 #49

I have worked with many software engineers over the years. Happy Hoosier Nov 2023 #102

Completely backwards Bernardo de La Paz Nov 2023 #12

Tests are unnecessary swong19104 Nov 2023 #45

Careful. Binary thinking (yes/no all/nothing) is a dead end Bernardo de La Paz Nov 2023 #46

Despite what Jo Boaler and her reformer pals think, math tests aren't subjective. pnwmom Nov 2023 #56

Most adults would fail biology and chemistry tests as well NickB79 Nov 2023 #18

I would say that swong19104 Nov 2023 #42

Oh sweet Jesus NickB79 Nov 2023 #61

The Youtube mention reminds me about a career goal poll from a few years back... Lancero Nov 2023 #80

Are you kidding? Happy Hoosier Nov 2023 #100

Isn't it interesting how the well to do want to dumb down the "others"? Stargazer99 Nov 2023 #8

On a plate Bernardo de La Paz Nov 2023 #13

The social and economic realities are brilliantly laid out here... Hekate Nov 2023 #30

Choice is good. Igel Nov 2023 #17

Need to bring back core requirements -- with electives on the side Hekate Nov 2023 #31

I agree. Unfortunately, in San Francisco they removed the option of Algebra (and any more advanced class) pnwmom Nov 2023 #39

That is so depressing. nt redqueen Nov 2023 #97

Seriously, learning algebra should start in the third grade. hunter Nov 2023 #21

Don't remove opportunity Mountainguy Nov 2023 #23

I'll bet the private schools teach it. EllieBC Nov 2023 #24

Exactly. 30% of San Fran students are in private schools with the option of 8th grade Algebra. nt pnwmom Nov 2023 #40

Somewhere, Betsy DeVos is smiling.... JustABozoOnThisBus Nov 2023 #36

SF's math curriculum right now is really hurting people. BlueCheeseAgain Nov 2023 #38

I Had Algebra RobinA Nov 2023 #41

It was part of the college prep curriculum I took in high school Xavier Breath Nov 2023 #43

My husband, who is a math whiz Bettie Nov 2023 #106

Your husband may have something there. Xavier Breath Nov 2023 #108

It all depends on the kid whether they're ready then or not. pnwmom Nov 2023 #84

My oldest was in a pre-algebra class in 5th grade MissB Nov 2023 #51

For some reason, people who would never dream of holding kids back from reading at a high level pnwmom Nov 2023 #89

Ultimately, 8th grade algebra is not an appropriate issue to vote on Bernardo de La Paz Nov 2023 #58

"Let teachers teach" How, by not teaching Algebra? MichMan Nov 2023 #65

No. I never suggested "not teaching Algebra" Bernardo de La Paz Nov 2023 #69

While it isn't an issue that should be up to a vote, Ms. Toad Nov 2023 #77

We don't disagree. When I say Bernardo de La Paz Nov 2023 #78

After ten years with a math program so many are unhappy with, a vote seems like the only path now. nt pnwmom Nov 2023 #92

Yes. In this case it makes sense to have a vote. There are too many unhappy parents (and educators) pnwmom Nov 2023 #91

I'm not sure it is a good idea in 6th grade, unusual or not. Ms. Toad Nov 2023 #94

It wasn't my idea, it was the school's. And it did work out, since my math-loving child pnwmom Nov 2023 #95

My concern is that, rather than being a customized recommendation, it is being pushed as the norm Ms. Toad Nov 2023 #96

The problem with San Francisco's approach is that they've been trying to fit all kids into the same box. pnwmom Nov 2023 #112

My response was specific to the 6th grade Algebra. Ms. Toad Nov 2023 #113

In this case, it's better that they vote on it. The San Francisco educational system blew it. pnwmom Nov 2023 #90

The decision to withhold 8th grade Algebra was not a teachers' decision. Happy Hoosier Nov 2023 #104

The OP is a roadmap leading to mediocrity in US technology. tableturner Nov 2023 #79

I think the opposite is true. pnwmom Nov 2023 #93

Algebra helps students learn how to solve things differently kimbutgar Nov 2023 #81

Stupid. Whose brilliant idea is it to put our kids behind the rest of the world? JohnSJ Nov 2023 #101

Not coincidentally, San Francisco is the city with the highest percent of private school kids, pnwmom Nov 2023 #111

This is absurd. OLDMDDEM Nov 2023 #103