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Greybnk48

(10,724 posts)

170. We're discussing Gaza. If you want to discuss Sudan and Ethiopia

Thu Nov 30, 2023, 01:46 PM

Nov 2023

start a completely new discussion.

"Whataboutism's" are instances of faulty reasoning, not dodging an issue. This, despite the fact that what is ongoing in Ethiopia and Sudan is extremely important, or should be.

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You cannot watch what remains of Gaza and not say [View all] malaise Nov 2023 OP

Yes, Hamas committed war crimes, and is committed to the genocide of Jews. I agree completely. tritsofme Nov 2023 #1

No one here... Think. Again. Nov 2023 #6

The first part of your statement sarisataka Nov 2023 #13

That's a strong accusation... Think. Again. Nov 2023 #18

Calling out specific posters would be considered an attack sarisataka Nov 2023 #36

You're right about that!... Think. Again. Nov 2023 #59

It is your lucky day sarisataka Nov 2023 #61

I wouldn't say lucky.... Think. Again. Nov 2023 #62

Try to remember DU is representative of a slice of the population Kennah Nov 2023 #79

But I keep hoping... Think. Again. Nov 2023 #81

I will admit guilt in hoping that as well Kennah Nov 2023 #97

I can see both sides. zanana1 Nov 2023 #163

Can you see in the US - us bombing a US high school womanofthehills Dec 2023 #230

Hamas must be eliminated. I've called for impartiality thru out all this... brush Nov 2023 #83

You mean that's not enough for *HAMAS* Arazi Nov 2023 #129

Pls don't put your extremist right wing spin on my words. Both sides have comminted... brush Nov 2023 #132

So my position is "extremist right wing"? Arazi Nov 2023 #133

You're siding with Netanyahu/Likud. Who do you think they are? brush Nov 2023 #135

Nope. I'm on the Palestinians side Arazi Nov 2023 #138

It's about time you declare yourself. The anti-Hamas drift of your post seemed... brush Nov 2023 #141

So - just HOW is Israel going to eliminate Hamas???" womanofthehills Dec 2023 #233

How should Hamas be eliminated? Happy Hoosier Nov 2023 #194

Killing thousand of innocent non-combatants to get the occassional... brush Nov 2023 #201

That's what they're doing... Happy Hoosier Nov 2023 #202

No where near as many will die as with mass bombings. brush Nov 2023 #204

The problem that some of us have is that, while we agree that Hamas must be eliminated as the governing Chainfire Nov 2023 #151

As A Matter Of Curiousity, Sir The Magistrate Nov 2023 #156

It is what I am not willing to see that is at issue. I can not abide by 10,000 civilian casualities. Chainfire Nov 2023 #173

You Say, Sir, There Has To Be A Better Way The Magistrate Nov 2023 #177

Rather than killing 10,000 innocent people I would suggest to the government of Israel that they Chainfire Nov 2023 #178

It Is Not A Question Of Budgeting, Sir The Magistrate Nov 2023 #181

I would suggest that you listen to the Sander's speech today. Chainfire Nov 2023 #182

There Are Many Whose Opinions I Rate Far Above Those Of That Gentleman From Vermont The Magistrate Nov 2023 #183

"secure their borders." EX500rider Nov 2023 #196

My position is the air stikes on innocent, non-combatant areas... brush Nov 2023 #174

I agree entirely. Chainfire Nov 2023 #179

My position has been clear on this board since the over-retaliation... brush Nov 2023 #180

Not most posters I believe scipan Nov 2023 #198

This is just my personal opinion, but it appears to me, that the war has been carried out in the most brutal way Chainfire Nov 2023 #212

I'll try to find it and listen to him. Nt scipan Dec 2023 #216

The number of dead Palestinians is closer to 20,000 womanofthehills Dec 2023 #229

You're probably right that there are thousands more dead in the rubble. brush Dec 2023 #232

A 7 yr old girls life in Gaza womanofthehills Nov 2023 #140

But they don;t offer a viable alternative, either. Happy Hoosier Nov 2023 #160

They also broke the peace on Oct 7 BannonsLiver Nov 2023 #9

And today hamas killed 3 in Jerusalem jimfields33 Nov 2023 #152

It wasn't Hamas that left babies to die in incubators Alpeduez21 Nov 2023 #23

Propaganda is a helluva drug BannonsLiver Nov 2023 #28

you are so right WhiteTara Nov 2023 #32

You are so right BannonsLiver Nov 2023 #44

And for Israel to bomb and entire population WhiteTara Nov 2023 #49

You Are So Right. Rec. Cha Nov 2023 #74

You wouldn't happen to have a source sarisataka Nov 2023 #40

here. Alpeduez21 Nov 2023 #56

Thank you for those sarisataka Nov 2023 #58

After the ceasefire, there were photos of babies being moved from the hospital to safety. yardwork Nov 2023 #64

I like to compare and contrast sarisataka Nov 2023 #73

Teller report is a questionable source with low credibility. TwilightZone Nov 2023 #128

Yes it was Hamas. Beastly Boy Nov 2023 #99

And it wasn't Germany that bombed Dresden, Igel Nov 2023 #100

Using Nuclear Bombs On Cities, Was Wrong. DontBelieveEastisEas Dec 2023 #219

What exactly does Hamas have to do with Israel murdering thousands of innocent people? ColinC Nov 2023 #84

I assumed OP was a condemnation of Hamas, for starting the war tritsofme Nov 2023 #85

No it's for Israel's war on Hamas. LeftInTX Nov 2023 #89

Why the assumption? Beastly Boy Nov 2023 #103

Since it references Gaza, one can infer the OP is referencing the response by Israel. TwilightZone Nov 2023 #134

I did't want to put words in OP's mouth, but since you did, Beastly Boy Nov 2023 #139

Like a lot of things, it's easier to boil things down to bumper sticker slogans. TwilightZone Nov 2023 #145

I keep wondering if this question is some kind of weird joke. yardwork Nov 2023 #87

Mutually exclusive incidents, really. Considering these are not military attacks on military targets ColinC Nov 2023 #149

Take It Up With Linear Time, Sir The Magistrate Nov 2023 #116

Is Hamas a terrorist organization? ColinC Nov 2023 #193

'Terrorism' Is An Odd Word, Sir The Magistrate Nov 2023 #206

If Hamas is not the general civilian population of Gaza ColinC Dec 2023 #223

Tell Me What You Think Israel Should Do The Magistrate Dec 2023 #225

Not the issue actually ColinC Dec 2023 #226

I think you missed The Magistrate's points completely. debm55 Dec 2023 #227

Nope ColinC Dec 2023 #228

Please don't think for me. You count yourself as knowing how I think. and why I think the way I do. You have no idea. -- debm55 Dec 2023 #234

I Did Not Expect He Would, Ma'am The Magistrate Dec 2023 #236

Birds of a feather and whatnot ColinC Dec 2023 #238

"seems to maximize the death of innocent civilians." EX500rider Dec 2023 #239

Strongly agree recovering_democrat Nov 2023 #88

There has been no genocide of Jews, nor will there be. Lonestarblue Nov 2023 #176

Note to general public: LakeArenal Nov 2023 #2

Same went for Germans vs Nazis. NutmegYankee Nov 2023 #8

Are you calling Palestinians or me Nazi sympathizers? LakeArenal Nov 2023 #12

Way to completely miss the point. NutmegYankee Nov 2023 #26

I think you are insulting. LakeArenal Nov 2023 #30

You are entitled to your opinion. NutmegYankee Nov 2023 #33

Not sure how it is "insulting" Happy Hoosier Nov 2023 #165

I don't believe that 50% of the population WhiteTara Nov 2023 #34

Considering that speaking out was a death sentence, can you blame them? NutmegYankee Nov 2023 #38

I have no opinion on that. WhiteTara Nov 2023 #46

For the record, Zionism started in the 19th century. NutmegYankee Nov 2023 #52

thanks for that. WhiteTara Nov 2023 #53

I didn't get that from the reply. edisdead Nov 2023 #69

Nor should it have BannonsLiver Nov 2023 #39

Europe did not oppress Germany before the Nazis, bad analogy uponit7771 Nov 2023 #185

The citizens crushed by the Treaty of Versailles would beg to differ. NutmegYankee Nov 2023 #188

Germany's economy was on the upswing way before Hitler attacked Poland. (Link) uponit7771 Nov 2023 #190

The fact is indeed in dispute. NutmegYankee Nov 2023 #214

Treaty or Versailles? Happy Hoosier Nov 2023 #195

*NOT* broadly debated that Versailles was oppression, it wasn't seeing the US had already uponit7771 Nov 2023 #208

Glad you are so sure of yourself. Happy Hoosier Dec 2023 #215

They are Palestinians, they govern Gaza. They use the civilians and the civilian institutions to hide behind. Darwins_Retriever Nov 2023 #31

You are the PM on Oct 7 Darwins_Retriever Nov 2023 #41

from the river to the sea bottomofthehill Nov 2023 #78

Ignoring Hamas' role in the suffering of Palestinian human beings, on the other hand... Beastly Boy Nov 2023 #105

Hamas f'd around, and has just about had it with finding out getagrip_already Nov 2023 #3

They are not claudette Nov 2023 #7

Send all the hostages home. Easy fix. CincyDem Nov 2023 #10

However claudette Nov 2023 #14

And we all believe everything Bibi says now? CincyDem Nov 2023 #17

It won't claudette Nov 2023 #22

And you know this how? CincyDem Nov 2023 #27

I'm only claudette Nov 2023 #50

Given recent history Bettie Nov 2023 #63

Oh, that is so claudette Nov 2023 #68

Based on my conversations with friends in Israel... CincyDem Nov 2023 #86

I've heard that he's toast more than once Bettie Nov 2023 #92

I think being in charge on the single deadliest day for Jews globally since the Holocaust...and on Israeli ground... CincyDem Nov 2023 #95

Release all hostages and surrender. Pretty easy. tritsofme Nov 2023 #11

What? claudette Nov 2023 #16

But still not waking up to the terrorism of Hamas. CincyDem Nov 2023 #19

Then I guess, as many apparently see it, they can keep "fighting the good fight" tritsofme Nov 2023 #21

Only martyrs get paradise. Their version of god doesn't like quitters. CincyDem Nov 2023 #29

That will stop the bombing. Beastly Boy Nov 2023 #113

and agreeing (as the rest of the world does) that Israel stopdiggin Nov 2023 #51

Surrender. Including Freeing the hostages, turning over the perpetrators/planners of the Oct. 7th kelly1mm Nov 2023 #117

I'm with claudette Nov 2023 #4

Who says? BannonsLiver Nov 2023 #5

History of course justaprogressive Nov 2023 #15

Hopefully Hamas will take the lesson BannonsLiver Nov 2023 #20

Jews and Israelis seem to be getting dehumanized just fine in some quarters Sympthsical Nov 2023 #35

Maybe they all can extend the ceasefire forever. Wednesdays Nov 2023 #24

What about the hostages? Zincwarrior Nov 2023 #60

What about..... Butterflylady Nov 2023 #109

We can all dream malaise Nov 2023 #66

K&R onecaliberal Nov 2023 #25

indeed dembotoz Nov 2023 #37

If it were genocide, the deadlist day in this entire conflict... W_HAMILTON Nov 2023 #42

Yes This IS WAR. Cha Nov 2023 #72

Some could and have said this justifies what will remains of Gaza. republianmushroom Nov 2023 #43

Thanks you Malaise. It turns my stomach when I see what's happened to Gaza. Greybnk48 Nov 2023 #45

Lots of people think the Union during the American Civil War carried out genocide I guess. And the allies during WW2. LexVegas Nov 2023 #47

You would think we would evolve to some degree over the past centuries and decades. Greybnk48 Nov 2023 #75

125000 German civilians died in Berlin in 2 weeks at the end of the war in Europe. nt LexVegas Nov 2023 #77

Try to stick to the Hamas/Israeli war. There's enough to discuss without... brush Nov 2023 #90

Berlin. 1945. Happy Hoosier Nov 2023 #48

we've used certain words so often stopdiggin Nov 2023 #54

282,000 North Korean civilians killed in bombing raids alone in Korean War. Genocide? nt LexVegas Nov 2023 #55

I'm confused. Are you saying because that was done, Gaza is ok? Greybnk48 Nov 2023 #76

Shit Does Happen, Sir The Magistrate Nov 2023 #80

Because in today's world we witness the brutality in our homes, live, Greybnk48 Nov 2023 #157

Sounds Like The Proverbial Drunk Looking For His Keys, Sir The Magistrate Nov 2023 #158

Because sir, that's an entirely different discussion, logically speaking. n/t Greybnk48 Nov 2023 #162

If You Say So, Sir The Magistrate Nov 2023 #164

We're discussing Gaza. If you want to discuss Sudan and Ethiopia Greybnk48 Nov 2023 #170

Oh My, Cheese It! It's The Thread Police!!! The Magistrate Nov 2023 #172

I think the point is... Happy Hoosier Nov 2023 #192

Europe did not oppress Germany before they bomb Berlin, bad analogy uponit7771 Nov 2023 #187

Humanitarian catastrophe perpetrated by a right-wing gov't. Duncan Grant Nov 2023 #57

It is heartbreaking malaise Nov 2023 #67

I'm not seeing this the same way. yardwork Nov 2023 #70

I sincerely appreciate you and respect your point of view. Duncan Grant Nov 2023 #137

No Conceivable Government of Israel, Sir, No Government Of Any State At All The Magistrate Nov 2023 #71

Carter and Biden -- and you posit, which side are you on? Really? Duncan Grant Nov 2023 #146

It's A Nice Thought, Sir, If A Cheap One, Off the Shelf The Magistrate Nov 2023 #147

And how would you call the barbarism that took place on Oct. 7? Decapitating babies question everything Nov 2023 #65

Religion. Poisins. Everything. czarjak Nov 2023 #82

Pressure cooker enid602 Nov 2023 #91

What are we to make of this argument? Basic LA Nov 2023 #93

Israel isn't killing anyone for vengeance. Captain Stern Nov 2023 #101

Well said. yardwork Nov 2023 #104

Yes, Israel wants to kill civilians so bad they literally call and ask them to move out of the way EX500rider Nov 2023 #122

Is every war where civilians are killed "genocide" or only when Israel does it? EX500rider Nov 2023 #94

Excellent point sir. Feels like much outrage is more due to who's doing it vs who it's being done to. CincyDem Nov 2023 #155

Mass bombing of civilian targets out of vengeance is wrong DBoon Nov 2023 #96

To all of you, I have to ask ---was there this much concern over the Ukraine. Houses were flattened, babies, children , debm55 Nov 2023 #98

Nope. yardwork Nov 2023 #102

Agree, why the heck is President Biden responsible? I don't understand but deep in my heart I do understand. Question debm55 Nov 2023 #108

There is an I/P forum, where these discussions are normally held. yardwork Nov 2023 #110

yardwork, I will pass. but thank you for the suggestion. debm55 Nov 2023 #118

That is a very different scenario. Sky Jewels Nov 2023 #106

Why not? A life is a life, destruction is destruction. So why is it not analogous? We should feel equally about the debm55 Nov 2023 #115

Do you really not understand that the reason Sky Jewels Nov 2023 #124

Do you think what happened and is happening in the Ukraine is genocide? nt debm55 Nov 2023 #125

Yes. And I'm very glad the U.S. is helping Ukraine fight Putin's murderous regime Sky Jewels Nov 2023 #126

But I didn't reserve my point to Ukraine yardwork Nov 2023 #120

I agree that there are many, many things to be angry about when it comes to Sky Jewels Nov 2023 #127

You understand Hamas is the aggressor here TexasDem69 Nov 2023 #130

Hamas was the original aggressor. Sky Jewels Nov 2023 #191

I know..... LeftInTX Nov 2023 #107

Hamas could end this today if they just release all the hostages, surrender the kelly1mm Nov 2023 #111

Exactly TexasDem69 Nov 2023 #131

On both sides... JT45242 Nov 2023 #112

Two separate issues here. Beastly Boy Nov 2023 #119

Imo the best solution would just be for Israel to annex Gaza. Oneironaut Nov 2023 #114

I have also been seeing moniss Nov 2023 #121

Not excusing Hamas for the atrocities they carried out, but yes, how Israel responds matters and in my... SKKY Nov 2023 #123

The question that reasonates for me is, "why didn't they leave?" mzmolly Nov 2023 #136

netanyahu is SAYING he is targeting hamas... Think. Again. Nov 2023 #143

Hamas is hiding among the civilian mzmolly Nov 2023 #144

Cowardly enid602 Nov 2023 #148

Oh, I think if The dome gets injured it's not a big deal mzmolly Nov 2023 #150

Palestinians also gets lots of money from others JI7 Dec 2023 #217

DURec leftstreet Nov 2023 #142

October 7th. lees1975 Nov 2023 #153

It's a concentration of the routine violence against those subject to second class status. David__77 Nov 2023 #154

True Enough, Sir The Magistrate Nov 2023 #159

I was referring to people in East Jerusalem too, among others. David__77 Nov 2023 #161

And I Was Refering, Sir, To, Oh, I Don't Know What The Magistrate Nov 2023 #166

Malaise. SYGDeb Nov 2023 #167

So you are excusing what HAMAS did on 10/7? Sal_NV Nov 2023 #168

It would seem that way, doesn't it. debm55 Nov 2023 #175

Few to no one on DU is excusing Hamas. I don't know why this deflecting question continues uponit7771 Nov 2023 #184

Perhaps you didn't read the post that was being responded to? tritsofme Nov 2023 #186

Of course I read it, person can be right and not be pro hamas. The either with us or against us mindset uponit7771 Nov 2023 #189

Really? Sal_NV Nov 2023 #197

Stating facts not in dispute isn't excusing anyone, reality is a friend uponit7771 Nov 2023 #205

Ok then. Sal_NV Nov 2023 #207

It's all they have. Goddessartist Dec 2023 #220

Nailed it malaise Nov 2023 #169

Did you feel this strongly about Ukrainians forced to leave, their children ,elderly and women killed., being forced to debm55 Nov 2023 #171

You just accurately described.... tusk Nov 2023 #210

As Malaise said, nailed it! Goddessartist Dec 2023 #221

This message was self-deleted by its author tenderfoot Nov 2023 #199

Palestinian lands became occupied territories by IDF. magicarpet Nov 2023 #200

How and Why were Israelis able to steal Palestinian land in WB and Gaza? This is the part I'm ... uponit7771 Nov 2023 #209

I agree 100! tusk Nov 2023 #203

So all 2 million Gazans have firearms enough to fight Hamas? uponit7771 Nov 2023 #211

Yes. tusk Nov 2023 #213

This is irrational on its face uponit7771 Dec 2023 #222

I can see you fail to understand the compartmentalised power dynamics in Gaza (and apparently many other places as well) Celerity Dec 2023 #224

I won't even respond n/t malaise Dec 2023 #231

This message was self-deleted by its author debm55 Dec 2023 #235

Bwaaaaaah malaise Dec 2023 #237

Hamas broke the ceasefire numerous times since 6 am. This one is on them. LeftInTX Dec 2023 #218