General Discussion

AloeVera

(4,267 posts)

231. That is a very clear position. We can agree to disagree, then.

Wed Dec 13, 2023, 10:52 PM

Dec 2023

In that case it seems you are able to disregard or justify the indiscriminate bombings (in President Biden's own words, no less), the high civilian deaths and injuries, the attacks on hospitals and UN schools, the destruction of family homes, the intended starvation, mass suffering, and impending epidemics and diseases that may wipe out a large swath of the population. In other words, actions indicating collective punishment, intent to create suffering of civilians and an irresponsible or even cruel attitude towards the risk of creating a genocide.

I do not support such a war. I find it morally repugnant and outside the bounds of what is legal and acceptable even in war. There is no cause or justification for creating such mass suffering. I believe I am part of the world's majority in this.

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Highlight:

"Please Stop This War Against Us": Gaza Doctor Begs for World's Help as Hunger & Disease Spread [View all] Nanjeanne Dec 2023 OP

Only Hamas can do that, and they don"t want to. Fozzledick Dec 2023 #1

Thanks for sharing. Nanjeanne Dec 2023 #3

It is the truth though. Hamas broke the ceasefire on October 7th. And they broke the recent humanitarian emulatorloo Dec 2023 #117

The people of Gaza are at the mercy of TWO 'inhumame groups': DemocraticPatriot Dec 2023 #157

I wish we would cut off Netanyahu and his far right government entirely. Sky Jewels Dec 2023 #204

You're quite welcome. TheKentuckian Dec 2023 #205

No claudette Dec 2023 #12

Who violated not 1 but 2 cease fires? Sal_NV Dec 2023 #14

You add nothing to this discussion of an extremely dangerous catastrophe for two million people Big Blue Marble Dec 2023 #22

I add what I add, Sal_NV Dec 2023 #23

This is not about you or me. Big Blue Marble Dec 2023 #28

I very much appreciate Sal's contributions so far. Though I understand some folks are frustrated when slapped tritsofme Dec 2023 #31

He actually lives in some kind of alternative reality, Big Blue Marble Dec 2023 #38

Fact rather than fiction and hand waiving, is what they are bringing. TheKentuckian Dec 2023 #138

What fiction and handwringing? Big Blue Marble Dec 2023 #143

Then those humanitarian groups never saw Aleppo or Grozny Arazi Dec 2023 #186

Israel is being singled out now by most of the world because they are killing the Gazans NOW. Big Blue Marble Dec 2023 #188

Those other wars are happening now too Arazi Dec 2023 #189

The psy-op meme is a psy-op Big Blue Marble Dec 2023 #190

Only Israel and its supporters are receiving this kind of opprobrium Arazi Dec 2023 #191

You are writing talking points. Big Blue Marble Dec 2023 #232

How many more innocent deaths are ok with you? BuddhaGirl Dec 2023 #30

They never answer that question. Big Blue Marble Dec 2023 #67

I'm never ok with innocent deaths, and I've never said I am, Sal_NV Dec 2023 #78

It's one thing to say you are not OK with innocent deaths, but that has to mean all innocent deaths. AloeVera Dec 2023 #155

"but who started the war?" DemocraticPatriot Dec 2023 #165

As many as Hamas leaders are willing to tolerate. CincyDem Dec 2023 #99

My God. AloeVera Dec 2023 #156

I know - it's terrible that so many people are unable to see the clear path to shutting all this down. CincyDem Dec 2023 #158

Those suffering people had NOTHING to do with this fiasco. AloeVera Dec 2023 #166

How many more innocent Israeli citizens are you ok with if HAMAS remains in power? Sal_NV Dec 2023 #72

This message was self-deleted by its author Sal_NV Dec 2023 #74

Questions such as this do not belong on DU. Big Blue Marble Dec 2023 #86

Did you say the same thing to this post? Sal_NV Dec 2023 #91

Strangely, the response was they never answer that TheKentuckian Dec 2023 #140

Funny how nobody DEMANDS that Egypt take in all the Gaza refugees in their plentiful Sinai land... brooklynite Dec 2023 #95

Funny that Israel did not allow the women and children to leave the Strip through it's gates as well. Big Blue Marble Dec 2023 #101

"This is not Egypt's fault." Nixie Dec 2023 #212

That is not logic that holds up under the evidence we are seeing every day Big Blue Marble Dec 2023 #217

There isn't ever much logic to slaughtering people. Nixie Dec 2023 #223

Of course, except this war did not start really start in October. Big Blue Marble Dec 2023 #226

Palestinians enid602 Dec 2023 #113

Actually... AloeVera Dec 2023 #153

I demand that Egypt take in all the Gaza refugees! DemocraticPatriot Dec 2023 #162

What did I say that wasn't true? Sal_NV Dec 2023 #24

I really do not care if they violated 10 ceasefires; it is immaterial at this point. Big Blue Marble Dec 2023 #29

So you prefer a one-sided "ceasefire" where Hamas is allowed to kill Jews tritsofme Dec 2023 #37

Israelis certainly seems to be able to defend themselves Big Blue Marble Dec 2023 #39

Right, they should just sit by while Hamas murders Jews tritsofme Dec 2023 #42

You are pushing the boundaries with this comment. Big Blue Marble Dec 2023 #45

I'm not sure how else to describe a one sided ceasefire. How else could it work? tritsofme Dec 2023 #47

Oh God as a Jew I am horrified at your remark.Jews can defend themselves. All human beings Nanjeanne Dec 2023 #51

The proposition is that a ceasefire be imposed where Hamas is able to continue targeting Jews tritsofme Dec 2023 #52

Israel responded. The proposition is that a ceasefire be imposed so that aid can get in, hostages can Nanjeanne Dec 2023 #56

Hamas stopped releasing hostages and broke the last such ceasefire. tritsofme Dec 2023 #58

Ok then your mind is made up. But you know negotiations are hard. Nanjeanne Dec 2023 #62

Hamas stopped releasing hostages Dorian Gray Dec 2023 #207

Good old 10/7 safe. TheKentuckian Dec 2023 #206

That is exactly what is going to happen eom JustAnotherGen Dec 2023 #40

Precisely. It's the Opposite of "immaterial". I'm not talking Cha Dec 2023 #59

Signs of being on the dumbest timeline TheKentuckian Dec 2023 #137

Good Question!! Rec Cha Dec 2023 #141

The cognitive dissonance is astounding. tritsofme Dec 2023 #142

Breaking ceasefires is immaterial to ceasefires? TheKentuckian Dec 2023 #136

As I said you, one would think you are here to demean those who speak up Big Blue Marble Dec 2023 #145

I'm for whatever I believe is right regardless of popularity TheKentuckian Dec 2023 #174

I've said this before, the pro-Palestinian group is falling for propaganda Arazi Dec 2023 #187

Lack of reason is beyond my scope TheKentuckian Dec 2023 #208

The logic of the heart speaks a different language Big Blue Marble Dec 2023 #216

That is an incomplete truth and not helpful of which you PufPuf23 Dec 2023 #48

And so do the Palestinians, Sal_NV Dec 2023 #80

Rec... TY for your CONTRIBUTIONS, Sal. You know Cha Dec 2023 #68

Does a ceasefire include your armed forces not killing civilians? AloeVera Dec 2023 #151

Of course not malaise Dec 2023 #178

Real Estate enid602 Dec 2023 #55

And delivering Gaza is Netanyahu's only play at this point Bettie Dec 2023 #60

Diversion enid602 Dec 2023 #92

Yep, he is Bettie Dec 2023 #123

Era enid602 Dec 2023 #139

Spot on. AloeVera Dec 2023 #159

if this was about real estate lapfog_1 Dec 2023 #130

Evidence? AloeVera Dec 2023 #163

HAMAS doesn't want to end the war either, they have said so.... DemocraticPatriot Dec 2023 #160

Claudette, dear........... I sympathize with you, BUT--- DemocraticPatriot Dec 2023 #161

There are no good guys here Bettie Dec 2023 #171

Hamas has asked for cease-fire on their terms of course. Big Blue Marble Dec 2023 #175

But they also want a 'never-ending war'.... DemocraticPatriot Dec 2023 #193

I agree. Both Hamas and Netanyahu want this war to continue. Big Blue Marble Dec 2023 #195

President Biden is very 'old school' and slower to react---- DemocraticPatriot Dec 2023 #196

Yes I agree. Big Blue Marble Dec 2023 #197

On the other hand, today I read an article which said 20% of Israeli ground casualties in Gaza DemocraticPatriot Dec 2023 #198

It does not. That is a startling and disturbing number. Big Blue Marble Dec 2023 #199

The article also noted that many Israeli casualties may have been due to DemocraticPatriot Dec 2023 #200

I did not know that about the Israeli bombing casualties either. Big Blue Marble Dec 2023 #202

They could have kept the one they had or agree to the terms agreed upon TheKentuckian Dec 2023 #201

Kentuckian, you make your thoughts clear. Big Blue Marble Dec 2023 #203

Perspective acknowledged TheKentuckian Dec 2023 #220

Hamas only wants a ceasefire to catch their breath and recover LymphocyteLover Dec 2023 #192

Rec.. Exactly and GD Butchers of HAMAS Don't want a Cha Dec 2023 #50

Not exactly - most countries when attacked don't commit genocide womanofthehills Dec 2023 #69

And by their logic, the excuses they use to justify.... onecaliberal Dec 2023 #71

This is claudette Dec 2023 #109

Also ...just begging Israel to stop this war that was started by their leaders? Not please everybody stop the GuppyGal Dec 2023 #96

Geez. AloeVera Dec 2023 #164

please rise up against Hamas lapfog_1 Dec 2023 #2

He's a little busy right now. Nanjeanne Dec 2023 #5

not too busy, apparently, to do an interview begging the war to stop lapfog_1 Dec 2023 #16

I'm so glad that's what you got from his plea. Humanity thanks you. Nanjeanne Dec 2023 #19

And there it is again. Sal_NV Dec 2023 #20

Yes humanity does thank you. They shouldn't? If they shouldn't thank you for your caring - then Nanjeanne Dec 2023 #46

please, tell me YOUR plan to stop the war lapfog_1 Dec 2023 #21

It's a difficult answer and many more thoughtful people are pondering it. I doubt you have any real Nanjeanne Dec 2023 #35

ok lapfog_1 Dec 2023 #73

Sorry posting on phone. I'll check links later. I did quick search while waiting in post office. Nanjeanne Dec 2023 #77

Yes please fix the links. Thank you! emulatorloo Dec 2023 #132

Will do tomorrow when I get get to my computer! Nanjeanne Dec 2023 #147

Only one link was off - and it's fixed now. Despite what one person disregards - there's some very thoughtful reading Nanjeanne Dec 2023 #176

Please tell me claudette Dec 2023 #13

well, for one thing, there are 1 million adults there lapfog_1 Dec 2023 #17

You are actually blaming these people for starving themselves to death? Big Blue Marble Dec 2023 #26

And where would claudette Dec 2023 #32

where does resistance movement from time immemorial get their weapons lapfog_1 Dec 2023 #90

Again claudette Dec 2023 #106

they have a much better chance of getting Hamas than does the IDF lapfog_1 Dec 2023 #128

That last claudette Dec 2023 #148

sorry if it offended you lapfog_1 Dec 2023 #149

Ceasefire now or death for many now. AloeVera Dec 2023 #168

The Hamas / Gazan Military JustAnotherGen Dec 2023 #43

The starving claudette Dec 2023 #107

So all 2 million of them now are sick injured and dying? EX500rider Dec 2023 #194

LOL. AloeVera Dec 2023 #167

You do realize how insensitive and uninformed this sounds. Big Blue Marble Dec 2023 #25

Many seem to have a knee jerk response and no desire to actually be thoughtful or humane. It's Nanjeanne Dec 2023 #36

As long as there are compassionate thoughtful people like you Nanjeanne, Big Blue Marble Dec 2023 #44

Your kind. But I'm frightened. I've got family in Tel Aviv who work for peace organizations and Nanjeanne Dec 2023 #49

Give me a break womanofthehills Dec 2023 #88

with the exception of the blindfold and handcuffs on the father lapfog_1 Dec 2023 #94

You really want to stop the war? Sal_NV Dec 2023 #4

I really want to stop the war but I'm afraid I'm not in touch with Hamas. Thanks for your input. Humanity thanks you. Nanjeanne Dec 2023 #6

You just couldn't resist the snide little remark could you? Sal_NV Dec 2023 #15

You do know that your remarks are extremely insensitive. Big Blue Marble Dec 2023 #27

Sorry you are offended. I'm offended by your flippant thoughtless answers to problems requiring Nanjeanne Dec 2023 #53

What is disingenuous about going to the source? TheKentuckian Dec 2023 #120

People hand waved 10/7?Hostages still captive? Rapists hand waved? Never saw that on DU. Guess i Nanjeanne Dec 2023 #127

Worse than hand waved. EllieBC Dec 2023 #154

Oh and a giant one. TheKentuckian Dec 2023 #121

Someone hand waved using human shields? - that's disgraceful. There's no excuse for using people Nanjeanne Dec 2023 #126

Your posts are Reality Based and that seems to offend. Cha Dec 2023 #84

Are you authorized to speak for all of humanity? EX500rider Dec 2023 #152

I speak for myself. I worry about humanity. You want to get that gig. Have empathy, compassion. It works. Nanjeanne Dec 2023 #169

Empathy can cloud reason at times EX500rider Dec 2023 #181

The deaths from dehydration and dysintery will come before starvation. maxsolomon Dec 2023 #7

This message was self-deleted by its author EX500rider Dec 2023 #83

Oh wow! It is called "The War and Peace Report" Now I'm convinced. NoRethugFriends Dec 2023 #8

Thanks for listening. Nanjeanne Dec 2023 #9

Oh, you're so nice. NoRethugFriends Dec 2023 #10

Thanks! I try to be. As I'm sure you do too. Nanjeanne Dec 2023 #11

The far far left, is sooo far left that lapfog_1 Dec 2023 #18

Hate Speech is Protected by the U.S. Constitution Renaissance Man Dec 2023 #34

I agree hate speech is protected by the Constitution. It doesn't mean these private universities tritsofme Dec 2023 #65

Is it permissible according to the Constitution? Renaissance Man Dec 2023 #81

Are you sure that's true? It could be statutorily required? tritsofme Dec 2023 #85

With all due respect, you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the First Amendment. Jedi Guy Dec 2023 #230

Take a Look at Harvard's Code of Conduct Renaissance Man Dec 2023 #243

If you are interested in hearing from Holocaust scholar Omer Barton and journalist and teacher, Peter Nanjeanne Dec 2023 #61

calling for a cease fire lapfog_1 Dec 2023 #82

Hate Speech is Permitted by the First Amendment Renaissance Man Dec 2023 #89

Why the need to mock? Big Blue Marble Dec 2023 #76

Are you now the moderator of all posts? NoRethugFriends Dec 2023 #87

DU has standards. I support them. Big Blue Marble Dec 2023 #102

If the standards are violated, Sal_NV Dec 2023 #103

Not always. Big Blue Marble Dec 2023 #104

I would never alert, Sal_NV Dec 2023 #105

I would hope Sal that no one would call you that here. Big Blue Marble Dec 2023 #108

What someone calls me or thinks of me on DU Sal_NV Dec 2023 #110

Could not agree with you more. Big Blue Marble Dec 2023 #129

OMG It's a ChanuChristmas Miracle! I agree with you!!! See? Common ground. Nanjeanne Dec 2023 #111

+100. Sal_NV Dec 2023 #112

We probably agree on alot of other issues, just not this one. nt Sal_NV Dec 2023 #114

Well now you are pushing it!!!! Nanjeanne Dec 2023 #115

I will now proudly rec. your post. Sal_NV Dec 2023 #116

"Hamas is killing its own people!" moondust Dec 2023 #33

The only solution is a diplomatic one redqueen Dec 2023 #41

Who would lead such negotiations for Palestinians today? tritsofme Dec 2023 #54

You would think people would realize you can't bomb a problem out of existence by now. Oneironaut Dec 2023 #66

Surely we must be learning. redqueen Dec 2023 #98

Yeah, everyone knows the real path is to send in death squads TheKentuckian Dec 2023 #125

Post removed Post removed Dec 2023 #57

It really does seem that way Bettie Dec 2023 #63

It's downright ghoulish. demmiblue Dec 2023 #122

FUCKING BUTCHERS of HAMAS ARE the Fucking GHOULS. Cha Dec 2023 #184

Frightening isn't it? nt Nanjeanne Dec 2023 #64

This is a ridiculous accusation. However it is exactly what Hamas says it would do to Jews tritsofme Dec 2023 #70

He likely voted for Hamas. They are the elected government of Gaza. nt LexVegas Dec 2023 #75

Oh yes. Very likely. That was only 17 years ago and he did look old. That must be it. Nanjeanne Dec 2023 #79

I hope that never in my life democrank Dec 2023 #93

Same. n/t demmiblue Dec 2023 #124

A ceasefire is pro-Hamas... gives them time to restock and rearm. Promote peace. keithbvadu2 Dec 2023 #97

Senator Sanders nailed Hamas yesterday on how violate ceasefires: emulatorloo Dec 2023 #119

The war won't stop, the dying won't stop 0rganism Dec 2023 #100

Some people seem to think that one must cheer the civilian deaths in Gaza or Autumn Dec 2023 #118

What's odd is that I posted this doctor's plea because it brought me to tears this morning Nanjeanne Dec 2023 #131

It's horrible. What is the point of trashing Jewish elders who want what is happening to the Autumn Dec 2023 #133

Yeah bringing out a lot of ugliness I preferred not seeing. Nanjeanne Dec 2023 #135

some of us look beyond this week and this month. lapfog_1 Dec 2023 #134

Humanness just doesn't translate to impunity for TheKentuckian Dec 2023 #144

I didn't realize the doctor, his colleagues, and all those children and thousands of innocents were Nanjeanne Dec 2023 #146

Nobody thinks that. What a silly statement. Oopsie Daisy Dec 2023 #209

Which people "cheer the civilian deaths"? Can you be specific? Oopsie Daisy Dec 2023 #234

Hope this helps. If not it must just be your specific personal experience. Autumn Dec 2023 #235

Who are these people? Where are they? Any evidence that they exist? Oopsie Daisy Dec 2023 #236

Again. If you haven't seen it it must just be YOUR specific personal experience and I can't help you. Autumn Dec 2023 #237

Evasive and non-responsive answers reveal much * Oopsie Daisy Dec 2023 #238

Whatever. You have a nice day. Autumn Dec 2023 #239

It's EXACTLY as I say. Oopsie Daisy Dec 2023 #240

Good for you! Autumn Dec 2023 #241

Thanks, I know. Oopsie Daisy Dec 2023 #242

The war can be over in less than 24 hours. All Hamas has to do is surrender, turn over ALL kelly1mm Dec 2023 #150

Nothing is easy peasy. Nanjeanne Dec 2023 #170

If you know they wont... AloeVera Dec 2023 #172

Because it is A solution that rational actors COULD take even if just to stop the needless kelly1mm Dec 2023 #185

Seems to me expecting people you consider terrorists to do the "right thing" AloeVera Dec 2023 #210

I would love for my solution to be done. I highly doubt it will. In the event that Hamas does kelly1mm Dec 2023 #229

That is a very clear position. We can agree to disagree, then. AloeVera Dec 2023 #231

Yes. I realize that the actions of the IDF in Gaza kelly1mm Dec 2023 #233

Hamas is just as likely to do that.. Captain Stern Dec 2023 #173

Yeah, HAMAS Doesn't Give a SHIT About the Palestinians So Cha Dec 2023 #183

Has this same doctor called for Hamas to release all prisoners and then surrender unconditionally? LonePirate Dec 2023 #177

I don't know. I haven't asked him and he seemed a bit busy. Nanjeanne Dec 2023 #179

I try not to wade into this much, except to say.. mvd Dec 2023 #180

Your elected political leaders started a war. W_HAMILTON Dec 2023 #182

The last election was over 17 years ago obamanut2012 Dec 2023 #211

And? W_HAMILTON Dec 2023 #213

Israel is working on a lot of things right now. AloeVera Dec 2023 #215

They are working on eliminating Hamas... W_HAMILTON Dec 2023 #218

"Doing it for them" or... AloeVera Dec 2023 #221

It's not about freeing them. W_HAMILTON Dec 2023 #224

The last election was 17 years ago obamanut2012 Dec 2023 #227

And? W_HAMILTON Dec 2023 #228

No one under 35 voted for them. Of the rest, only 45% did. AloeVera Dec 2023 #214

If Gazans don't support them, why are they still in power? W_HAMILTON Dec 2023 #219

It's nice of Israel to free the Palestinians from under the Hamas yoke. AloeVera Dec 2023 #222

Gazans have had almost two decades to do so. W_HAMILTON Dec 2023 #225