General Discussion

AloeVera

(4,481 posts)

163. Attend to real-life immediate threats before addressing future threats.

Fri Dec 15, 2023, 03:38 AM

Dec 2023

Stop dumb-bombing civilians.

Don't stoop to terrorism and war-crimes to fight terrorism.

I am not a military expert so I can't give advice on how Israel should eliminate Hamas. All I know is that risking mass death from starvation and disease while killing civilians with the bombing is not a morally or legally defensible way to wage war.

Putting a pause on this war will give a chance for cooler, saner heads to prevail and to come up with a better strategy for the intended goal.

With Israel as an actual occupying force now, with an exponentially larger fighting force and exponentially superior equipment and hardware, Hamas is already knee-capped and weak. I'm trying to understand how they are still a threat to Israel from a military viewpoint in the event of a ceasefire for humanitarian purposes. At present I don't see it.

I do see an urgent need for a ceasefire for the purpose of delivering life-saving aid.

The immediate threat is to Palestinian lives, not Israeli lives. Generally immediate, real threats are addressed before possible future ones when it comes to saving lives.

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The world has declared that Israel is committing genocide [View all] malaise Dec 2023 OP

What nonsense. tritsofme Dec 2023 #1

Pretty much the entire world disagrees with you RAB910 Dec 2023 #23

And those that voted against or abstained TexasDem69 Dec 2023 #50

Israel alone enid602 Dec 2023 #102

UK voted to abstain (as did other countries) because the resolution didn't condemn Hamas act emulatorloo Dec 2023 #147

Biden wants the bombing stopped Big Blue Marble Dec 2023 #122

He needs to stop selling Israel bombs womanofthehills Dec 2023 #142

I agree with Biden. No more war Trueblue1968 Dec 2023 #166

That's not President Biden's position. N/T lapucelle Dec 2023 #194

Many of us have a hard time going to sleep at night womanofthehills Dec 2023 #137

But you could sleep at night before Gaza? EX500rider Dec 2023 #215

Not to mention Iraq. Everything the United States did there was illegal, start to finish. Coventina Dec 2023 #221

let us stick with those who voted against RAB910 Dec 2023 #177

How so? A demand for a ceasefire is not a declaration of genocide. lapucelle Dec 2023 #72

Genocide enid602 Dec 2023 #119

There is a genocide going on in Sudan right now. Crickets. LeftInTX Dec 2023 #143

Darfur enid602 Dec 2023 #169

If the claim is that the actual definition of a crime is too (checks notes)... "legalistic", lapucelle Dec 2023 #192

It is absolute nonsense. The US has declared that it is Hamas that is engaged in genocide lapucelle Dec 2023 #58

Just asking.... Butterflylady Dec 2023 #187

I must have missed that. Please provide the link to where the world declares this. n/t Coventina Dec 2023 #2

Damn right, my dear malaise! I applaud you. CaliforniaPeggy Dec 2023 #3

DUer states that The world has declared that Israel is committing genocide revmclaren Dec 2023 #4

Numerous DUers state that Israel is committing genocide. Earth-shine Dec 2023 #26

A handful of DUers, actually. Who put up an Tomconroy Dec 2023 #28

A very copious number of posts a day. revmclaren Dec 2023 #30

Agree debm55 Dec 2023 #37

Responsibility enid602 Dec 2023 #104

If it's not genocide, what is 18,000 deaths, mostly women and children? brush Dec 2023 #106

The definition of genocide is not created revmclaren Dec 2023 #108

Again, if it's not, what's a good description of the 18,000 deaths? brush Dec 2023 #111

War. revmclaren Dec 2023 #112

Israel can do better. Kick corrupt Netanyahu and Likud to the curb. brush Dec 2023 #116

This message was self-deleted by its author Big Blue Marble Dec 2023 #124

Reactionary authoritarianism is never pretty. limbicnuminousity Dec 2023 #152

War...exactly! agingdem Dec 2023 #178

Yes, the people of Israel didn't want this war.. Butterflylady Dec 2023 #190

no they didn't want this war... agingdem Dec 2023 #196

Stating it doesn't make it so. revmclaren Dec 2023 #29

It's in the eye of the beholder -- I decide! Earth-shine Dec 2023 #32

Facts are facts. Personal beliefs donot create facts. revmclaren Dec 2023 #34

What facts? This is a matter of opinion. Earth-shine Dec 2023 #39

Good. Dont. revmclaren Dec 2023 #44

... emulatorloo Dec 2023 #157

This message was self-deleted by its author emulatorloo Dec 2023 #156

The vast majority of humanitarian and human rights organizations around the world Big Blue Marble Dec 2023 #125

What a strange and personally directed statement revmclaren Dec 2023 #135

What do you mean... Butterflylady Dec 2023 #191

Interesting you're answering for the poster. revmclaren Dec 2023 #195

No I'm not I was just stating a fact Butterflylady Dec 2023 #199

And here i have to state this again... revmclaren Dec 2023 #200

What do you think about what is going on in Sudan? LeftInTX Dec 2023 #145

Apparently Syria, Yemen, Ukraine, Myanmar, Sudan, Ethiopia etc aren't a problem EX500rider Dec 2023 #217

THIS malaise Dec 2023 #213

Israel is not committing genocide. edisdead Dec 2023 #101

It is an intentional effort to devalue the whole concept TheKentuckian Dec 2023 #105

I say otherwise. Earth-shine Dec 2023 #150

Netanyahu has made it clear he wants to eliminate Palestine with this war. Cuthbert Allgood Dec 2023 #218

Netanyahu is a POS, but I doubt he's said that. Coventina Dec 2023 #225

Where? edisdead Dec 2023 #234

Genocide is a process. Big Blue Marble Dec 2023 #236

Definitions should apply over different treestar Dec 2023 #254

Israel has an enemy that HAS vowed to engage in genocide edisdead Dec 2023 #255

Did not answer the question I posed treestar Dec 2023 #256

And the multiple ministers in the Israeli government and the Knesset Big Blue Marble Dec 2023 #123

and so do the number of large protest gatherings that are going on.... Chakaconcarne Dec 2023 #182

Damn straight! Goddessartist Dec 2023 #5

That simple malaise Dec 2023 #7

Hamas is committing war crimes by using children and civilians as human shields LetMyPeopleVote Dec 2023 #74

* Donkees Dec 2023 #6

Thank you, malaise. Think. Again. Dec 2023 #8

I agree. Tomconroy Dec 2023 #27

lol... sure does. Cha Dec 2023 #77

On that i absolutely agree. revmclaren Dec 2023 #33

Calling out Duers that you do not agree with? sheshe2 Dec 2023 #99

Shocking colors. Big Blue Marble Dec 2023 #126

I agree on that... Think. Again. Dec 2023 #176

Pretty hosile and ironic statement revmclaren Dec 2023 #202

I believe it's been... Think. Again. Dec 2023 #233

Agree. MorbidButterflyTat Dec 2023 #227

If this is true, The World is badly mistaken. Tomconroy Dec 2023 #9

Gee, global warming deniers make the same sort of claim. KPN Dec 2023 #15

Fascinating. But not terribly relevant. Tomconroy Dec 2023 #25

And then there's this BuddhaGirl Dec 2023 #40

All countries, including the US have substantial numbers ofdumb bombs Tomconroy Dec 2023 #48

"Obvioudly they don't want to deplete BuddhaGirl Dec 2023 #64

I assure you, guided munitions are fully capable Tomconroy Dec 2023 #67

This is the part you seemed to have missed: AloeVera Dec 2023 #131

I didnt miss that. Even the author doesnt state with Tomconroy Dec 2023 #161

The authors are journalists, not experts. AloeVera Dec 2023 #165

Sorry. But you need more much information before making Tomconroy Dec 2023 #170

Bomb them back to the stone age and say it's for their own good. AloeVera Dec 2023 #179

To add: AloeVera Dec 2023 #180

It is the use of dumb bombs in extremely densely populated areas that is the problem. Big Blue Marble Dec 2023 #133

Exactly. Civilians are not worth smart bombs is the message. AloeVera Dec 2023 #144

The use of the words 'may' and 'could' carry a great Tomconroy Dec 2023 #162

This message was self-deleted by its author tenderfoot Dec 2023 #10

Nah. TwilightZone Dec 2023 #18

tenderfoot...you wrote: revmclaren Dec 2023 #22

Pretty sure in this instance it would libel n/t Alpeduez21 Dec 2023 #61

Either it's a pretty s&$ty thing to say revmclaren Dec 2023 #65

See my post 238. revmclaren Dec 2023 #241

This is a libel against DUers, madaboutharry Dec 2023 #52

Are you accusing DUers of being bloodthirsty? sarisataka Dec 2023 #55

Oh looky...they self deleted. revmclaren Dec 2023 #96

See my new post. revmclaren Dec 2023 #239

Well that is pleasant sarisataka Dec 2023 #243

The last time i received a DU email like this revmclaren Dec 2023 #244

Look at the photos, the films and the numbers and decide for yourself. Chainfire Dec 2023 #11

Or not. Bonx Dec 2023 #12

These losses are terrible edhopper Dec 2023 #13

The world has declared this? sarisataka Dec 2023 #14

Don't you know? Real genocides are OK question everything Dec 2023 #17

The Jewish factor does seem to be the difference sarisataka Dec 2023 #42

and the Ukranian people. debm55 Dec 2023 #63

Netanyahu overplayed his prop-up Hamas to kill peace hand, now overplayed his "just war" hand. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Dec 2023 #16

Yep. Israel can do better. Kick corrupt Bibi and Likud to the curb. Asap. brush Dec 2023 #110

Hamas is the real bad guy here and they're playing both sides for chumps. Initech Dec 2023 #19

Because it's easier to hate on a Jewish state than involve complexity in thought. n/t Coventina Dec 2023 #20

Yep. And it pre-dates Israel by centuries if not longer. CincyDem Dec 2023 #36

That's the maddening part. What should Israel do? Is only answered with "stop defending yourself." Coventina Dec 2023 #38

Do those lazy thinkers include the tens of thousands of Israeli protesters that have spent months protesting onecaliberal Dec 2023 #57

Possibly, I don't know what each one is thinking. Coventina Dec 2023 #60

I've never seen a comment saying Israel doesn't have the right to defend herself. onecaliberal Dec 2023 #70

Fuck the Red Cross. They have zero credibility with me. Coventina Dec 2023 #71

You know nothing about me. You're not going to tell me what I think, or what influences me. onecaliberal Dec 2023 #73

But not the innocent women and children that Hamas raped and butchered on Oct. 7th? Coventina Dec 2023 #75

Can you not read or do you not comprehend what innocent wherever they are means? onecaliberal Dec 2023 #78

OK, so please explain to me what Israel should do to bring the Hamas attackers to justice? Coventina Dec 2023 #81

You won't get an answer, debm55 Dec 2023 #97

Isn't that so convenient? Coventina Dec 2023 #118

Hours later - crickets Bleacher Creature Dec 2023 #140

I never get an answer to that question n/t Coventina Dec 2023 #208

If Israel went after the men that actually participated in 10-7 questionseverything Dec 2023 #231

How are they supposed to do that, when Hamas are hiding out in a place where Coventina Dec 2023 #235

As long as Israel can be attacked TheKentuckian Dec 2023 #232

Your argument simply proves the point TexasDem69 Dec 2023 #91

Self-defense justification is no longer believable. This is something else now. AloeVera Dec 2023 #141

Most of ceasefire stuff is unilateral, will prevent Israel from LeftInTX Dec 2023 #183

I wouldn't rule it out or conflate opposition to Likud TheKentuckian Dec 2023 #109

I don't think it's lazy thinking. CincyDem Dec 2023 #69

Natural, I could buy. Rational? All but devoid of such TheKentuckian Dec 2023 #132

I will say, with all due respect, that I think I agree with you but I think I need a decoder ring to be sure. CincyDem Dec 2023 #148

What should Israel do? AloeVera Dec 2023 #146

Hamas seems to be operating above ground, given their latest ambush on the IDF Coventina Dec 2023 #151

Attend to real-life immediate threats before addressing future threats. AloeVera Dec 2023 #163

Israelis are currently being held hostage Coventina Dec 2023 #164

I disagree. AloeVera Dec 2023 #167

Wow. So you're just going to ignore everything that Coventina Dec 2023 #173

I am playing into the hands... AloeVera Dec 2023 #188

So, in other words, you want Israel, and Jews worldwide, to just suck it up and take it. Coventina Dec 2023 #204

Who is "taking it" AloeVera Dec 2023 #209

"Human shield trope"!?!?!?!?!?!?! That was their stated PLAN Coventina Dec 2023 #210

Oh I didnt know they stated that. AloeVera Dec 2023 #211

Here is a link: Coventina Dec 2023 #212

I see no proof. AloeVera Dec 2023 #216

How about the Guardian then? Coventina Dec 2023 #220

This message was self-deleted by its author debm55 Dec 2023 #228

Who would those people be? AloeVera Dec 2023 #245

Hamas is aggressively bombing Israel daily LeftInTX Dec 2023 #184

There are those that consider it "unfair" sarisataka Dec 2023 #189

It is rapidly becoming clear that anything, ANYTHING is an excuse to blame the Jews. Coventina Dec 2023 #205

Ideas and ideologies we thought we had extinguished sarisataka Dec 2023 #207

Who was deluded into believing anything was extinguished? TheKentuckian Dec 2023 #246

That's not good. Thanks. AloeVera Dec 2023 #197

Israel's taking/annexing of Palestinian land predates Hamas. Cuthbert Allgood Dec 2023 #222

I see, you are qualified to say what you think Israel shouldn't do, but not qualified to provide as to what they should. Coventina Dec 2023 #223

I'm qualified to say my opinion of what they are doing. Cuthbert Allgood Dec 2023 #229

"I can't think of anything better, but they're doing it wrong." Coventina Dec 2023 #230

Those numbers are highly dubious. Amishman Dec 2023 #21

There are thousands buried under rubble and uncounted. AloeVera Dec 2023 #149

When that number is cited Mountainguy Dec 2023 #153

"The world" has the power to stop them. LeftInTX Dec 2023 #24

The I guess every recent war has been "genocide" too? Or just Israel for some reason? EX500rider Dec 2023 #31

The United States committed genocide against Iraqis, definitely. Sky Jewels Dec 2023 #84

It's really frickin simple . . . Richard D Dec 2023 #35

Where are the calls for Hamas to surrender and to release all hostages? LonePirate Dec 2023 #41

Really, the likelihood of an army of useful idiots is high . . . Richard D Dec 2023 #45

Hamas is the FAUX NewZ of terrorist propaganda now? No uponit7771 Dec 2023 #98

We'll see Richard D Dec 2023 #128

Russia and China see this as an op to erode US soft power and further demonize US allies uponit7771 Dec 2023 #253

Far deeper and effective than Faux TheKentuckian Dec 2023 #247

We don't talk about that sarisataka Dec 2023 #46

Birkenstock Charlottesville is the same as the white polo and khakis variety TheKentuckian Dec 2023 #62

Some people commenting on here have had four posts removed. LakeArenal Dec 2023 #43

I've actually seen dozens of DUers revmclaren Dec 2023 #107

Overly argumentative people always make me look at profiles. LakeArenal Dec 2023 #136

As do I. revmclaren Dec 2023 #138

Post removed Post removed Dec 2023 #47

We can't deny the loss of global support. Basic LA Dec 2023 #49

Good (I guess.) elleng Dec 2023 #51

Make it pellucidly clear. TheProle Dec 2023 #54

Bibi Charlie Chapulin Dec 2023 #53

Any chance that any of the "few others" are Hamas? TheProle Dec 2023 #56

I'd love to see him locked in a small cell with Trump, Putin, Orban, Erdogan and Bolsonaro. Sky Jewels Dec 2023 #82

'The world' does not seem to care that Hamas has vowed to commit genocide on the Jews. keithbvadu2 Dec 2023 #59

Because you said Israel is and thus the world declared it has? Beastly Boy Dec 2023 #66

See my post 238. revmclaren Dec 2023 #242

Netanyahu and the factions who empower him have overplayed their hand. jaxexpat Dec 2023 #68

We need to tell Netanyahu to fuck off. Then cut off the money/weapons spigot completely. Sky Jewels Dec 2023 #80

Even without US weapons, Israel isn't going to stop until Hamas is gone Arazi Dec 2023 #94

I guess you missed it. AloeVera Dec 2023 #155

Barbaric and brutal doesn't even begin to describe what Hamas did Calculating Dec 2023 #120

Why Hamas stores its weapons inside hospitals, mosques and schools LetMyPeopleVote Dec 2023 #76

It couldn't be more obvious. Israel's response has been depraved and monstrous. Sky Jewels Dec 2023 #79

21% of Israel's population are Palestinians. Are you saying that Israel is killing Palestinians Coventina Dec 2023 #83

There are certainly those on the right that would like to force them out of Israel. Big Blue Marble Dec 2023 #237

links please? Coventina Dec 2023 #240

The thing that is killing me is they don't care about the innocent ones onecaliberal Dec 2023 #85

That's nonsense. madaboutharry Dec 2023 #86

I find it strange how arguments sarisataka Dec 2023 #90

The term "antisemetic" applies only to hatred and prejudice against . . . Richard D Dec 2023 #93

Yes, i am well aware sarisataka Dec 2023 #95

I'm sure you are aware. Richard D Dec 2023 #129

. sarisataka Dec 2023 #139

Most Israelis are brown JI7 Dec 2023 #159

Not true! Bibi is white, but Likud is brown. LeftInTX Dec 2023 #186

It's not genocide TexasDem69 Dec 2023 #87

describing Jews as "monstrous" is nothing new. Coventina Dec 2023 #88

The reaction by some on the "left" TexasDem69 Dec 2023 #89

The "Left" & "Liberals" are us. Basic LA Dec 2023 #113

The "left" and "liberals" TexasDem69 Dec 2023 #219

Of course not. Basic LA Dec 2023 #226

This is the conversation going on in Jewish communities through the country. CincyDem Dec 2023 #168

... Behind the Aegis Dec 2023 #171

You are not alone nor I have I forgotten your true solidarity TheKentuckian Dec 2023 #249

Netenyahu is monstrous. David__77 Dec 2023 #127

I said ISRAEL. Not "Jews." Sky Jewels Dec 2023 #130

Yes, this is a very fraught issue. To give you my personal perspective Coventina Dec 2023 #134

"GeNoCiDe!11" BannonsLiver Dec 2023 #203

Depraved and monstrous... sarisataka Dec 2023 #92

I have learned that... Think. Again. Dec 2023 #103

I am speaking up for innocent women and children where ever they reside.. I don't say anyone's name. onecaliberal Dec 2023 #114

Depraved and monstrous- I agree with that characterization. David__77 Dec 2023 #117

Never again Calculating Dec 2023 #121

DURec leftstreet Dec 2023 #100

Not literally but SarahD Dec 2023 #115

Hamas using civilians as human shields, does not justify Israel killing the shields to get Hamas. Runningdawg Dec 2023 #154

International law makes allowances. As to what extent, I don't know LeftInTX Dec 2023 #160

Meanwhile, Russia really is committing genocide, and yawns ensue Kennah Dec 2023 #158

I always knew there was widespread antisemitism but I'm still a bit shocked at the level on which it truly exists. BlueTsunami2018 Dec 2023 #172

Were "genocide" and "war crimes" in the resolution? NT Patton French Dec 2023 #174

Can you provide a link to the declaration? Shrek Dec 2023 #175

I asked for that in post #2 in this thread. Coventina Dec 2023 #206

It will be a long wait EX500rider Dec 2023 #224

The world? What, was there a plebiscite? Straw Man Dec 2023 #181

Historically, the world hates Jews. Happy Hoosier Dec 2023 #185

I guess it's buy one get one day for logical fallacies. Jedi Guy Dec 2023 #193

The "world" sees Israel as a convenient way to express hatred of the US and the West mathematic Dec 2023 #198

I Faux pas Dec 2023 #201

Makes me sad that i got a post hidden for something similar Laura PourMeADrink Dec 2023 #214

I just reported this personal DU mail to the admins... revmclaren Dec 2023 #238

I am so sorry that happened to you. Coventina Dec 2023 #251

... revmclaren Dec 2023 #252

Then the ForgedCrank Dec 2023 #248

Don't dignify that propaganda as factual at all TheKentuckian Dec 2023 #250