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wnylib

(26,042 posts)
99. Your specific congregation might not be taking sides or discussing
Mon Jun 3, 2024, 10:01 PM
Jun 2024

the I/P issues, but the one in my community definitely is. One of the priests there led a local pro Palestinian march to push for divestment from Israeli businesses and immediate ceasefire in Gaza. That same priest compares South African apartheid to Israel, refers to Israelis as outsider colonialists who lack legitimate ties to the region, and refers to Palestinians as the true indigenous people of the area. I heard the priest give a sermon comparing the suffering of Palestinians at the hands of Jews to Jesus' suffering at the hands of Jews and urging people today to have more courage than Pilate did in standing up to Jewish killers.

I am not a member of the church, but I've been involved in some of their community outreach programs and attended a few services there, as well as a fund-raising meeting for the Jerusalem Diocese. That meeting was open to anyone but was attended mostly by a group of regular members. It included a biased film produced by Al Jazeera that falsely claimed that Palestinians had never been given the opportunity to have their own nation state. One very outspoken person at the meeting complained about Israel's fight against Hamas because Hamas was the duly elected government in Gaza. Therefore Israel's fight against Hamas was illegal and security measures on the Gaza border were discriminatory. Never mind that 10/7 had just proven the need for border security as well as past terrorist attacks inside Israel from Palestinians crossing the border during intifadas.

I was surprised, to say the least, to hear those views at that church because it was contrary to my previous (pre 10/7) impression of the church. So I looked up websites for the national church body. I found there some condemnations of the 10/7 attacks and announcements of taking donations for Israeli victims as well as for Palestinian victims of the Hamas-Israel war. No bias there like in the local church in my community.

But, I also learned in my online search about the Sabeel organization founded by a Palestinian Anglican priest, Naim Ateek. Sabeel is Arabic for "The Way." Ateek has stated that Israel does not have the right to a nation state in the region. His view is that they needed a place to go during the Holocaust, but he denies their centuries (millennia) long connection to the land. He advocates for a temporary two state solution for peace now, but a long term single state requiring the dissolution of Israel as a nation state. Rev. Ateek also called for Anglican clergy to use the kind of Biblical comparisons between Jesus and "the Jews" to modern Israel and Palestinians that I heard in the local sermon.

The PCUSA (liberal Presbyterians) is closely partnered with Sabeel and has been criticized by the ADL (Jewish Anti Defamation League) for its anti-Semitic statements immediately after the 10/7 attacks as well as for past actions like meetings with Hezbollah. The ADL has issued statements about some Anglican views in alignment with Sabeel, but commended them for not being as extreme as the PCUSA. The ELCA (liberal Lutherans) take a more neutral position on the I/P issues, but they do list Sabeel as one organization that they affiliate with.







Recommendations

1 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Winning hearts and minds. RandySF Jun 2024 #1
It's quite noticeable.... Dorian Gray Jun 2024 #3
I'm way beyond "frustrated" with their pro-Hamas behavior, and am well into disgust & outrage Hekate Jun 2024 #73
Beyond TRANSPARENT B.See Jun 2024 #83
Their apologists will be here soon to explain... AZSkiffyGeek Jun 2024 #4
If the apologists do show up I won't know about it. AnrothElf Jun 2024 #22
great point. why aren't they showing up at drumpf rallies? Takket Jun 2024 #6
I think we all know why. They exist to divide Democrats. They're bad-faith provacateurs. Probably Russian-paid. AnrothElf Jun 2024 #23
More likely Iran than Russia. wnylib Jun 2024 #36
There is a difference? getagrip_already Jun 2024 #52
That's for sure ronnykmarshall Jun 2024 #49
I don't think so. Cha Jun 2024 #68
I don't think so either. betsuni Jun 2024 #87
ABSO-FKNG-LUTELT! I do. B.See Jun 2024 #84
Somebody has paid for them n/t gay texan Jun 2024 #78
EXACTLY. I've become convinced they're MAGA plants. And B.See Jun 2024 #82
I wholeheartedly support the Pride parade TexasDem69 Jun 2024 #2
*headdesk* sakabatou Jun 2024 #5
Or they do and they're on board. Or they're paid. Or yeah... they're just that stupid. AnrothElf Jun 2024 #24
Well, as the early Soviets so aptly put it (Lenin or Stalin, take your pick) the followers are useful idiots Hekate Jun 2024 #79
Showing true colors Mountainguy Jun 2024 #7
Meanwhile at the Israel Day Parade in NYC... lapucelle Jun 2024 #8
It's appalling that anyone on DU supports these terrorists TexasDem69 Jun 2024 #10
It truly is shocking. Especially those that purport to Nixie Jun 2024 #15
But you're being Islamaphobic Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Jun 2024 #28
Just do what I do with MAGA lunatics. Initech Jun 2024 #104
That Cowardly Chickenshit all Wrapped up head to toe is Cha Jun 2024 #12
"Kill hostages now" Nixie Jun 2024 #16
Heartbreaking. Infuriating. These are the people that are often cheered by pro Hamas individuals online * Oopsie Daisy Jun 2024 #107
Fucking monsters. DavidDvorkin Jun 2024 #19
I'm being sarcastic here but: are we sure Israel isn't paying these people? Takket Jun 2024 #39
It really is like a parody. betsuni Jun 2024 #41
These people are filth mcar Jun 2024 #88
Their Hamas heroes would do a lot worse than interrupting the parade. BannonsLiver Jun 2024 #9
Of course it is. yardwork Jun 2024 #50
This Hekate Jun 2024 #80
Piling on an already marginalized group being attacked every damn day. What assholes. chowder66 Jun 2024 #11
Well said.. TY Cha Jun 2024 #13
My pleasure. chowder66 Jun 2024 #17
Yes they ARE! From Trashing the Brookly Museum to Cha Jun 2024 #25
@chowder, yes. Peaceful protests FOR B.See Jun 2024 #89
And the cancer patients awhile back. Nixie Jun 2024 #18
WHAT!? I missed that one. JFC. chowder66 Jun 2024 #20
It's sickeningly true. Back in January Nixie Jun 2024 #26
Oh yes the Cancer Patients.. Cha Jun 2024 #27
Pediatric cancer patients, no less. Children with cancer. yardwork Jun 2024 #51
considering their heroes are massively anti gay they get the two birds thing going on nt msongs Jun 2024 #14
Kinda fitting since Hamas would do a fuck-ton more than merely block Pride. AnrothElf Jun 2024 #21
What is the point? Why are they angry at the Pride Parade? betsuni Jun 2024 #29
Just saw that the organizers, Queers 4 Palestine, want them to denounce capitalism, colonialism, empire, betsuni Jun 2024 #30
" Queers 4 Palestine" should go there. Behind the Aegis Jun 2024 #31
The Q4P People Deep State Witch Jun 2024 #60
I've met a few in person and tried to discuss I/P issues wnylib Jun 2024 #37
For some reason the demand to renounce things reminds me of the Japanese Tokugawa government betsuni Jun 2024 #42
That's it. Purity test. n/t OneGrassRoot Jun 2024 #44
Same. They are extremely naive and misinformed. yardwork Jun 2024 #53
Very true about their stance on Israel and Palestine. wnylib Jun 2024 #57
Oh, that's interesting! yardwork Jun 2024 #58
The group that I was talking with was a liberal church group. wnylib Jun 2024 #61
OMG. They're basically calling for the genocide of all Jews in the Middle East. yardwork Jun 2024 #65
Useful fools is right, becoming useful tools. wnylib Jun 2024 #66
Ironically, their ideal state is essentially what Israel is today. yardwork Jun 2024 #69
Agree. wnylib Jun 2024 #70
Not just the Middle East . . . Richard D Jun 2024 #114
"Russia is a socialist Eden" -- hey, has anybody heard from Edward Snowdon, who stole US secrets... Hekate Jun 2024 #85
Haven't heard about him or Tara Reade lately over there in socialist paradise. betsuni Jun 2024 #95
"the organizers, want them to denounce capitalism, B.See Jun 2024 #92
They "call on all Queer & Trans people to denounce capitalism, colonialism & empire as anti-queer." betsuni Jun 2024 #93
... right. B.See Jun 2024 #94
Oklahoma has moved their pride parades to October because of the heat. Behind the Aegis Jun 2024 #32
Ohh Nice.. Cha Jun 2024 #67
I am in Oklahoma. Behind the Aegis Jun 2024 #96
When I saw "Oklahoma" I got Cha Jun 2024 #98
Our pride is in late October early November, also due to the heat of the summer. beaglelover Jun 2024 #77
Fuck these dumbass Hamas supporters vercetti2021 Jun 2024 #33
Well said. yardwork Jun 2024 #54
Rather fitting. Hamas proudly murders LGBTQ, so this further demonstrates the Maru Kitteh Jun 2024 #97
I have heard some suggestion that these pro Palestine/Hamas people aren't actual Democrats or Liberals... PeaceWave Jun 2024 #34
It used to take some time but now seems to work pretty much overnight. betsuni Jun 2024 #35
This anti Israel view is very strong in liberal churches. wnylib Jun 2024 #38
Yes, our local party lost a liberal pastor over this LeftInTX Jun 2024 #40
I decided that I could not be involved with wnylib Jun 2024 #43
Pointed out so well over ten years ago DFW Jun 2024 #46
Nope. Not the same thing. The religious people in the linked video wnylib Jun 2024 #47
I wasn't equating the types of churches, but rather their penchant for using one phrase to mean another DFW Jun 2024 #48
Sure, there are differences between Muslims, just as there are wnylib Jun 2024 #62
I'm not aware of any anti-Israel feeling in my Episcopal church wryter2000 Jun 2024 #90
Your specific congregation might not be taking sides or discussing wnylib Jun 2024 #99
Then we need data on how many churches are like mine wryter2000 Jun 2024 #100
You would probably know where or how to get such data more than I would wnylib Jun 2024 #103
I hadn't heard of Sabeel. This is interesting. yardwork Jun 2024 #106
It's not an evangelical thing. It's a Palestinian Christian thing. LeftInTX Jun 2024 #109
Everything you've posted affirms my opinions about this. yardwork Jun 2024 #111
I pretty much agree with what you posted. wnylib Jun 2024 #110
I'm far from an expert, but I can't think of a majority-Muslim nation that tolerates other religions. yardwork Jun 2024 #112
Agree. wnylib Jun 2024 #113
Honestly, hard core Islamists have more in common with the GQP than Democrats Happy Hoosier Jun 2024 #55
I'm with you right to the end of your last sentence. yardwork Jun 2024 #56
They remind me of that old French musical video, "Manie, Manie" (Mania, Mania) DFW Jun 2024 #45
"No pride in genocide" sarisataka Jun 2024 #59
These people believe that Palestine is the only cause on the planet. orange jar Jun 2024 #64
They're as stupid and incompetent and ill-informed as MAGA. Oopsie Daisy Jun 2024 #108
Not very progressive to harass marginalized groups. orange jar Jun 2024 #63
Yeah they're really winning over new followers aren't they? Initech Jun 2024 #71
They are targeting Dylan Mulvaney too FreeState Jun 2024 #72
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. orange jar Jun 2024 #74
It's supper frustrating FreeState Jun 2024 #76
They're really just bigots hiding under a mask. Oneironaut Jun 2024 #102
What the....????? nt LAS14 Jun 2024 #75
These are vile and disgusting creatures. No different than Trump's cult, and with the same electoral aims. tritsofme Jun 2024 #81
Well, they are getting kudos from the Ayatollah mcar Jun 2024 #86
It is not helping. I don't support Palestinians if this is what they do LiberalFighter Jun 2024 #91
2 for 1 - Hate Pride, cool! Palestinian Protest! OAITW r.2.0 Jun 2024 #101
I have no doubt that the ultimate goal of all this is to reelect Trump. yardwork Jun 2024 #105
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